Suarez.

[Tom17LCFC]

I don't see how referring to someone's skin colour in the context that's been made out can't be racist? Even if it is acceptable in Uruguay, Suarez knew full well that it wouldn't be acceptable here. Horrible little player.

[Guest Bilo]

The cultural difference makes this a complicated situation.

Like Daggers, I have lived and worked among Latin Americans in my time and heard words like 'negrito' used to refer to black Costa Ricans on a daily basis with no offence intended or taken. We should also remember that Suarez is not yet competent, yet alone proficient, in English so it's not difficult to imagine him struggling with the notion that words such as that might be considered offensive in England. Now I abhor racists and racism, but I'm not yet ready to place Suarez in that particular twat file. This is a completely different case to John Terry, who had fvck all excuse for his moronic outburst.

Why do I get the feeling that the FA are going to use Suarez as a guinea pig to say 'see, we are serious about racism' when John Terry gets a £10,000 fine and a one match ban for what was a far more serious offence.

Suarez is a cvnt but this incident doesn't make him a racist by itself.

[sdb]

He's been in England nearly a year. Surely knows what is deemed offensive by now. The guy is scum, always has been. Track record says it. Hope Terry gets similar. Horrible men.

[I am Rod Hull]

He's been in England nearly a year. Surely knows what is deemed offensive by now. The guy is scum, always has been. Track record says it. Hope Terry gets similar. Horrible men.

Get a grip man....

[Finchy]

He's been shite tonight.

I'm sure the key lies with how he used the term, which we probably wont find out. If he's said it in a derogatory way, which has to be likely as they are on opposing sides in a massive rivalry, I don't see how it's not racist.

Don't care about his ban though, people should never forgive him for catching the ball on the line to stop Ghana winning in the world cup. Awful bit of cheating that.

[Guest MattP]

That was one of my favourite ever world cup moments. Caught it and showed no shame, proved he would do anything for his country including sacrificing himself. Stopped the African wankfest on the BBC as well.

Daggers has this spot on by the way, no wonder the whole world views us as so insular. Pathetic from the FA.

[ScouseFox]

What he did at the world cup backs up one man's claim that he's a racist. Heard it all now chaps, heard it all.

And yeah, what Matt said, his clearance in the world cup won his team the match, a place in the semis, and he knew exactly what he was doing and did it superbly. His celebration as the penalty was missed was brilliant as well. Gerrard, Rooney et al would've become national heroes if they'd done similar.

[Finchy]

That was one of my favourite ever world cup moments. Caught it and showed no shame, proved he would do anything for his country including sacrificing himself.

Yeah that's way you should look at it

[Finchy]

What he did at the world cup backs up one man's claim that he's a racist. Heard it all now chaps, heard it all.

Wow, well that's clearly not the point I was making.

It was backing up my opinion he's a twat.

[ScouseFox]

Nah Finchy wasn't referring directly to you, first time I've properly read through the thread and 3 or 4 have said "his past actions", ie. he dives, bitches and he handballed it in the world cup etc mean he must be a racist bastard as well.

[Daggers]

I swear that most of the current "anti-racists" have given it as much thought and give as much of a shit about it as they did over Diana dying, duck house expense claims and whatever else the media told them to get upset about.

For someone who supported the ANL and had run-ins with fascists throughout the 80s, it saddens me.

[I am Rod Hull]

I swear that most of the current "anti-racists" have given it as much thought and give as much of a shit about it as they did over Diana dying, duck house expense claims and whatever else the media told them to get upset about.

For someone who supported the ANL and had run-ins with fascists throughout the 80s, it saddens me.

So facking what...

[sdb]

Get a grip man....

Get a grip of what?! If you're gonna try and defend him (or Terry), then i'm all ears. I love a giggle.

[I am Rod Hull]

Get a grip of what?! If you're gonna try and defend him (or Terry), then i'm all ears. I love a giggle.

So what did Terry say ? Do you think he shouted "black ****" infront of his own team mates ?

You misinterpret defence as common sense....

[Daggers]

So facking what...

Baaaa.

[I am Rod Hull]

Baaaa.

I hate people...

[ScouseFox]

Some Liverpool fans sprayed "Evra is a fcuking grass" outside the DW tonight. True.

[Captain...]

Suarez admitted calling Evra a Negro to the tribunal, so I don't understand the Liverpool statement saying it's Evra's word against Suarez's. The tribunal would not have punished Suarez without firm evidence (just as they didn't when Evra made the claim he'd been racially abused by Chelsea groundstaff).

The whole defence from Suarez was based on a misunderstanding of cultures, how it is acceptable in Uruguay to call a black person a Negro, depending on the context. I don't really think that's a legitimate defence. We don't think it's acceptable in this country, end of.

The point is not that it is ok in Uruguay to call black people negro, it is that negro means black guy, there is a difference. Like negrita means little black girl, but it is also a brand of rum in Spain.

In Spain when I first went and I was teaching English at times I felt very uncomfortable hearing this word and how it sounded when translated badly, but it is just a descriptive word.

Culture is very important in these cases, if you heard anyone using the word "sudaca" you wouldn't think anything of it, but it is actually a very inulting term for South Americans in Spanish.

If he is being punished for using the word negro, then it is like using the word black in english, if Evra referred to his ethnicity why can't he refer to his skin colour? They are either both wrong in this case or neither.

We also have to remember that we are very sensitive to comments that can be perceived as racist towards black people, because we enslaved vast quantities of Africans, and when we reluctantly freed them, they were still treated as second class citizens in the UK and the states for a very long time, in Uruguay and Spain there isn't that same history, so there is less sensitivity when it comes to racism towards black people but a hell of a lot more when it comes to racism towards South Americans and Arabs. This is not justifying racism, but when you have very little concept of the racism and hatred against black people that existed in this country not too long ago, you might not understand why someone might be upset if you call someone black, "black".

[leicesterseddon]

Well there are two questions here. The first is what he said to Evra - as others have pointed out, that is hard to prove because it's one man's word against another. However, we seem to know pretty much for certain that the word 'negrito' was used, at least once - although Evra is still claiming that Suarez abused him several times during the game.

For me, questions of exactly how insulting this word is in Uruguayan football are actually irrelevant. The fact was that he was playing a football match in England, and communicating with a French player. Surely in this context (and the context that he was arguing at the time), the introduction of any race-related epithet has to be taken to be intended as an insult? The claim that the language he used isn't offensive in his homeland (and to be honest, I think it probably is anyway) is such a flimsy defence.

Personally I think the decision is right but the punishment is obviously quite heavy. Of course, it's given Liverpool another excuse to engage in the particularly pathetic victim mentality they so often adopt - a mentality that whole city has been using since it lost its industry and masculinity in the post-industrial era. To be honest, I think they should just hold up their hands now and try to appeal for a reduction of the ban. But I don't think they will.

[Jordan]

There are many native Spanish-speakers in my community, and yes, it's quite common for people to either refer to or nickname others based on their appearance. I hear people call others negrito, blanquito, moreno, chino, gordo, etc. as purely neutral terms, and sometimes even as endearing nicknames. However, I've also heard people call others words like negrito in a clearly pejorative, racist sense.

While this is certainly a nuanced matter (and one made more difficult based on the lack of concrete evidence) considering differences in cultures, then if the hearsay is true, I'd feel pretty sure that Suarez intended his comments to have some degree of racial insult. If Suarez and Evra were yapping at each other all game, then what reason did Suarez have to call Evra a "negrito" instead of just, well, "tú?"

While Suarez is a dick and should be sanctioned, the whole disciplinary process here seems to have been done in a shoddy manner. Plus the FA should perhaps have investigated the comments Evra made to Suarez a little further if it really wants to show it has no tolerance for verbal racial abuse.

[Webbo]

I swear that most of the current "anti-racists" have given it as much thought and give as much of a shit about it as they did over Diana dying, duck house expense claims and whatever else the media told them to get upset about.

Spot on Dags, this is why I rarely comment on these threads.

[Captain...]

There are many native Spanish-speakers in my community, and yes, it's quite common for people to either refer to or nickname others based on their appearance. I hear people call others negrito, blanquito, moreno, chino, gordo, etc. as purely neutral terms, and sometimes even as endearing nicknames. However, I've also heard people call others words like negrito in a clearly pejorative, racist sense.

While this is certainly a nuanced matter (and one made more difficult based on the lack of concrete evidence) considering differences in cultures, then if the hearsay is true, I'd feel pretty sure that Suarez intended his comments to have some degree of racial insult. If Suarez and Evra were yapping at each other all game, then what reason did Suarez have to call Evra a "negrito" instead of just, well, "tú?"

While Suarez is a dick and should be sanctioned, the whole disciplinary process here seems to have been done in a shoddy manner. Plus the FA should perhaps have investigated the comments Evra made to Suarez a little further if it really wants to show it has no tolerance for verbal racial abuse.

You are right, it is the difference between John Terry calling Anton Ferdinand a black **** (allegedley) or just a ****, but to call him black is not racist in itself.

From what I understand Suarez did not use any negative words or insults in association with the word Negro or Negrito, if as I have read reported, Evra said something about him being a South American, and his response was "Por que negro/negrito?"

If anything the insult intended in using the diminutive term "negrito" he is more likely to be takling the piss out of his height than skin colour, if he said, "puto negro" or something like that then yes it could be seen as racism, but that is not what I have read.

[Babylon]

[Finchy]

There are many native Spanish-speakers in my community, and yes, it's quite common for people to either refer to or nickname others based on their appearance. I hear people call others negrito, blanquito, moreno, chino, gordo, etc. as purely neutral terms, and sometimes even as endearing nicknames. However, I've also heard people call others words like negrito in a clearly pejorative, racist sense.

While this is certainly a nuanced matter (and one made more difficult based on the lack of concrete evidence) considering differences in cultures, then if the hearsay is true, I'd feel pretty sure that Suarez intended his comments to have some degree of racial insult. If Suarez and Evra were yapping at each other all game, then what reason did Suarez have to call Evra a "negrito" instead of just, well, "tú?"

While Suarez is a dick and should be sanctioned, the whole disciplinary process here seems to have been done in a shoddy manner. Plus the FA should perhaps have investigated the comments Evra made to Suarez a little further if it really wants to show it has no tolerance for verbal racial abuse.

All this.

[ousefox]

Thought this might get brought up after watching MOTD.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16301357.stm