Respect? You're having a laugh!

[stockyfox]

Never in 62 years following Leicester City can I recall an occasion when we have finished the game with us having only eight players on the field of play. Yet today’s farce was the culmination of petty rules administered by ‘jobsworth’ officials.

The prolific issuing of Yellow and Red cards, although undoubtedly initially well-meant, is in danger of slowly strangling

the game.

Indeed, I am not over surprised to read that some folk are beginning to question the honesty of some officials. What I am seriously beginning to wonder is if, like CEO’s (once known affectionately as Parking Wardens), referees have been given secret targets –that they must have issued so many yellows and reds in a season. It came to my notice the other day that a CEO was sacked because he had not reached his target!

In the 50;s and 60’s and indeed later years, fans were never subjected to having to be party to the ridiculous farce witnessed at Brighton today. It ruined the game as a spectacle. It was a slap in the face to 2500 Leicester fans who had not only paid quite handsomely for their admission tickets but forked out a fair amount in order to travel plus all the extras one affords on such a day out.

And in that earlier era, the game was a lot more physical than the current game which is in further danger of becoming a non-contact sport.

Yes players did get warned and very occasionally, a player could be sent for an early bath. And yes, the referees could come in for some stick but they were never placed in the same kind of spotlight nor were there so many contentious decisions as we see today.

The referees and two linesmen were generally respected. There was no fourth official and there was no saturation TV coverage. We stood on the terraces alongside the visiting fans.

And so we progress as ‘improvements ‘to this and that are introduced by the FA. In my opinion, a pathetic organisation whose leadership is parochial, tardy and blinkered.

When you compare the progress made by innovations that the MCC and other Cricket governing bodies have

introduced to modernise the game, when you compare the punishment structure in the world of Rugby – the ten minutes sin-bin, the use of technology by both sports and you examine what has been achieved by the FA, then I think it is pitiful.

Leicester City have never been a 'dirty' team. Even today in the first half, Ian Stringer commented on the passing exhibition by City's players.

I posted the next two paragraphs in another thread and make no apology for also including a slightly edited version now.

Respect has nothing to do with money, status, age, colour, creed or religion. It comes through observation of what someone says and does. You don't necessarily have to like or even agree with someone in order to respect them. I might vehemently disagree with someone and their principles but in a democratic society, I will always respect their right to express that opinion.

However, I have little respect fot the 'men in suits' who are entrusted with overseeing the 'beautiful game.’ I will give them more time of day

when they are prepared to listen with an open mind and show more respect for managers and players who often have what I perceive to be genuine grievances,

when they stop bringing automatic charges of disrepute against those who make some critical remark,

when they allow the media to freely interview officials after a game,

when they acknowledge the grievances of fans without whom there would be no football matches, no FA, no refs etc.

when they are seen to be making strides to improve the game,

when they become more accountable,

only then they will have my respect.

[Mav]

Something has to be done about this. There needs to be a reform to refereeing. Forget goalline technology, just go to a man in a room with a video who can see whats happened and can assist the ref to make a decision.

[shade]

are we saying referees are getting worse, or the rules they adhere to?

[Salieri]

I think we're saying all referees are clueless cvnts, particularly if they are friends with Southern Fox. Or Tarquin.

[Corky]

It's the inconsistency that gets me.

• Beckford has a few words with another player. Red card.
  
• A player injures an opponent who cannot continue playing. Yellow card.
  
• A player breathes on another. Free-kick.
  
• Drinkwater gets a foot in the face. Play on.
  

And they wear shit shirts as well. Prats.

[Guest Col city fan]

Starting with the ref at Cov, I have never seen such a season of ridiculous rule changes and the inconsistency in implementing them as this...

The FA are actually spoiling the game

Make no bones about it though.. This is not the reason we are where we are in the league.

We ain't been good enough so far.. End of

[davieG]

I think to put all the blame on the FA is a bit wide of the mark as poor as they are they no longer have the power or any influence to change how the game is managed and ruled for that you have to look to UEFA where a certain Mr Platini seems to have a dislike for the English leagues, probably because of all the money and FIFA which is ruled by an apparent self seeking egotistic dictator.

[Guest Col city fan]

I think to put all the blame on the FA is a bit wide of the mark as poor as they are they no longer have the power or any influence to change how the game is managed and ruled for that you have to look to UEFA where a certain Mr Platini seems to have a dislike for the English leagues, probably because of all the money and FIFA which is ruled by an apparent self seeking egotistic dictator.

You're right Davie to be fair.. I actually meant UEFA and FIFA.. Of course they are the root cause

[Dan]

To be quite honest, I've tried the approach that does actually work in some way to making me happier.

I genuinely go into games now expecting a fvcking beyond bad ref, so every time we don't, I enjoy it, and then days like today and Middlesbrough just seem normal enough to me.

I recommend to you all.

[yorkie1999]

We need to sing shit refs we only get shit refs before the kick off when rhey're having their little respect handshake lovein

[Callabinho]

And guess what? The incident wasn't caught on camera typical....

[MattyFromLE]

Does anybody know how many points we've dropped due to sendings off and poor decisions? Ones that spring to mind is yesterday, Forest away when the ref had an absolute mare...any more?

I think the refs are given too much to do, in respect to how many rules there are, advantages and how rules can differ in situations that can change within a split second. I personally think we should ditch all these extra rules and bring back some common sense.

[accessory]

It cuts both ways. No-one could have complained on here a week ago if Konchesky's reckless lunge in the Swindon game had earned him a red rather than a yellow..

That was an example of a ref bottling it in favour of a home side. Yesterday we saw an even worse example. Bridcutt's attempt to maim Delfouneso was despicable, the type that could easily end careers. Yet gain the ref took the coward's option and only issued a yellow, even though he sent off Sparrow only minutes before for a lesser challenge.

Gus Poyet has whinged and squealed about referees in the media all season (and not just in Brighton games). He's clearly seeking to put them under pressure and his efforts are paying off. If they don't have the strength or character to stand up to bullying from him, they shouldn't be put in charge of games at this level.

[Thracian]

Never in 62 years following Leicester City can I recall an occasion when we have finished the game with us having only eight players on the field of play. Yet today’s farce was the culmination of petty rules administered by ‘jobsworth’ officials.

The prolific issuing of Yellow and Red cards, although undoubtedly initially well-meant, is in danger of slowly strangling

the game.

Indeed, I am not over surprised to read that some folk are beginning to question the honesty of some officials. What I am seriously beginning to wonder is if, like CEO’s (once known affectionately as Parking Wardens), referees have been given secret targets –that they must have issued so many yellows and reds in a season. It came to my notice the other day that a CEO was sacked because he had not reached his target!

In the 50;s and 60’s and indeed later years, fans were never subjected to having to be party to the ridiculous farce witnessed at Brighton today. It ruined the game as a spectacle. It was a slap in the face to 2500 Leicester fans who had not only paid quite handsomely for their admission tickets but forked out a fair amount in order to travel plus all the extras one affords on such a day out.

And in that earlier era, the game was a lot more physical than the current game which is in further danger of becoming a non-contact sport.

Yes players did get warned and very occasionally, a player could be sent for an early bath. And yes, the referees could come in for some stick but they were never placed in the same kind of spotlight nor were there so many contentious decisions as we see today.

The referees and two linesmen were generally respected. There was no fourth official and there was no saturation TV coverage. We stood on the terraces alongside the visiting fans.

And so we progress as ‘improvements ‘to this and that are introduced by the FA. In my opinion, a pathetic organisation whose leadership is parochial, tardy and blinkered.

When you compare the progress made by innovations that the MCC and other Cricket governing bodies have

introduced to modernise the game, when you compare the punishment structure in the world of Rugby – the ten minutes sin-bin, the use of technology by both sports and you examine what has been achieved by the FA, then I think it is pitiful.

Leicester City have never been a 'dirty' team. Even today in the first half, Ian Stringer commented on the passing exhibition by City's players.

I posted the next two paragraphs in another thread and make no apology for also including a slightly edited version now.

Respect has nothing to do with money, status, age, colour, creed or religion. It comes through observation of what someone says and does. You don't necessarily have to like or even agree with someone in order to respect them. I might vehemently disagree with someone and their principles but in a democratic society, I will always respect their right to express that opinion.

However, I have little respect fot the 'men in suits' who are entrusted with overseeing the 'beautiful game.’ I will give them more time of day

when they are prepared to listen with an open mind and show more respect for managers and players who often have what I perceive to be genuine grievances,

when they stop bringing automatic charges of disrepute against those who make some critical remark,

when they allow the media to freely interview officials after a game,

when they acknowledge the grievances of fans without whom there would be no football matches, no FA, no refs etc.

when they are seen to be making strides to improve the game,

when they become more accountable,

only then they will have my respect.

[Arkie Bennett]

I think the refs are given too much to do, in respect to how many rules there are, advantages and how rules can differ in situations that can change within a split second. I personally think we should ditch all these extra rules and bring back some common sense.

I agree. When making decisions, often a referee is expected to make an immediate judgement about advantage, interfering with play etc, which are all part of the tactical nuances of high level football and vary with every instance. This is against the background of a faster game, players who are intentionally trying to con the referee, and media analysis of every incident. Maybe referees should be primarily there to make decisions on matters of fact rather than opinion.

[BHA101]

It cuts both ways. No-one could have complained on here a week ago if Konchesky's reckless lunge in the Swindon game had earned him a red rather than a yellow..

That was an example of a ref bottling it in favour of a home side. Yesterday we saw an even worse example. Bridcutt's attempt to maim Delfouneso was despicable, the type that could easily end careers. Yet gain the ref took the coward's option and only issued a yellow, even though he sent off Sparrow only minutes before for a lesser challenge.

Gus Poyet has whinged and squealed about referees in the media all season (and not just in Brighton games). He's clearly seeking to put them under pressure and his efforts are paying off. If they don't have the strength or character to stand up to bullying from him, they shouldn't be put in charge of games at this level.

I think you're being harsh on Bridcutt. It was mistimed and nothing else. His role as a defensive mid sometimes means that he ends up having to make desperate tackles.

As for Gus, yes he has complained and that's because like you, he felt that we were seeing a lot of poor referring and picking up cards for nothing. Since new year that's changed a little.

[Guest Col city fan]

Never in 62 years following Leicester City can I recall an occasion when we have finished the game with us having only eight players on the field of play. Yet today’s farce was the culmination of petty rules administered by ‘jobsworth’ officials.

The prolific issuing of Yellow and Red cards, although undoubtedly initially well-meant, is in danger of slowly strangling

the game.

Indeed, I am not over surprised to read that some folk are beginning to question the honesty of some officials. What I am seriously beginning to wonder is if, like CEO’s (once known affectionately as Parking Wardens), referees have been given secret targets –that they must have issued so many yellows and reds in a season. It came to my notice the other day that a CEO was sacked because he had not reached his target!

In the 50;s and 60’s and indeed later years, fans were never subjected to having to be party to the ridiculous farce witnessed at Brighton today. It ruined the game as a spectacle. It was a slap in the face to 2500 Leicester fans who had not only paid quite handsomely for their admission tickets but forked out a fair amount in order to travel plus all the extras one affords on such a day out.

And in that earlier era, the game was a lot more physical than the current game which is in further danger of becoming a non-contact sport.

Yes players did get warned and very occasionally, a player could be sent for an early bath. And yes, the referees could come in for some stick but they were never placed in the same kind of spotlight nor were there so many contentious decisions as we see today.

The referees and two linesmen were generally respected. There was no fourth official and there was no saturation TV coverage. We stood on the terraces alongside the visiting fans.

And so we progress as ‘improvements ‘to this and that are introduced by the FA. In my opinion, a pathetic organisation whose leadership is parochial, tardy and blinkered.

When you compare the progress made by innovations that the MCC and other Cricket governing bodies have

introduced to modernise the game, when you compare the punishment structure in the world of Rugby – the ten minutes sin-bin, the use of technology by both sports and you examine what has been achieved by the FA, then I think it is pitiful.

Leicester City have never been a 'dirty' team. Even today in the first half, Ian Stringer commented on the passing exhibition by City's players.

I posted the next two paragraphs in another thread and make no apology for also including a slightly edited version now.

Respect has nothing to do with money, status, age, colour, creed or religion. It comes through observation of what someone says and does. You don't necessarily have to like or even agree with someone in order to respect them. I might vehemently disagree with someone and their principles but in a democratic society, I will always respect their right to express that opinion.

However, I have little respect fot the 'men in suits' who are entrusted with overseeing the 'beautiful game.’ I will give them more time of day

when they are prepared to listen with an open mind and show more respect for managers and players who often have what I perceive to be genuine grievances,

when they stop bringing automatic charges of disrepute against those who make some critical remark,

when they allow the media to freely interview officials after a game,

when they acknowledge the grievances of fans without whom there would be no football matches, no FA, no refs etc.

when they are seen to be making strides to improve the game,

when they become more accountable,

only then they will have my respect.

I could not agree more.....

Absolutely top post imo

[Maybes]

And guess what? The incident wasn't caught on camera typical....

Absolute joke.

There was no incident. Beckford gave a slight grab of the players shirt while on the ground.

Linesman waited 5 seconds, waved his flag like a fvcking fairy, explained to the ref that Beckford should be redded. Cya.

Farce.

[accessory]

I think you're being harsh on Bridcutt. It was mistimed and nothing else. His role as a defensive mid sometimes means that he ends up having to make desperate tackles.

The type of desperate tackle which often attracts red cards, as Matt Mills and many others will testify. It could put Delfouneso out of the game for weeks.

In the context of yesterday's game, the ref bottled it because he had only just sent Sparrow off and didn't want to face the wrath of your mob or manager. Still a shockingly poor decision though.

As for Gus, yes he has complained and that's because like you, he felt that we were seeing a lot of poor referring and picking up cards for nothing. Since new year that's changed a little.

But weak referees can turn the other way, as you'll no doubt discover when you visit Anfield in a couple of weeks.

[Thracian]

Re Stocky's Post.

Excellent thought-provoking post. We seem to live in an era where everyone wants to justify their existence by making changes but when no-one takes the time to test the changes out and ascertain whether they actually improve things...the offside rule being an obvious example.

You mention rugby and while the authorities have made a complete mockery of the league system so that fans are paying significant sums to see the second team and other reserves much of the time, the sin-bin system and use of new technology works well.

Many of the things being debated in football could be sorted fairly and at the time by use of new technology with each team having the sort of three appeals system used in tennis and the referee having reference to serious situations where a sending off might be appropriate.

Another thing that might be worth considering is delayed discipline, where any sending off is held over until the authorities have looked at the video footage and decided whether such action is appropriate. I say this because so many mistakes are being made every weekend and, as you've mentioned, games are being ruined for all who've paid their money to see a fair and proper contest which is never the case when one team has fewer players than the other.

Why does this have to be the case anyway? Why not review the evidence and just suspend the player, if appropriate, for the next so many games. And why not deduct a club one point for every two or three players sent off? That would surely focus their attention on good discipline. With every decision being made on proper evidence there would be very little chance of injustice.

[marbelladave]

When i got home last night I watched a 'real time' rerun of the Calcutta cup.

The ref is miked up, as in football but his comments, instructions and explanations are heard by all. He may get things wrong but everyone can hear the calls and the refs explanation of the discisions.

Compare this too the football, a player is Red Carded, completely changing the nature of the game and almost a day later we still do not definitively know the referees reasoning.......

I have been told by various sources that it was for 'foul and abusive language' directed at the linesman, 'foul and abusive language' directed at the Brighton player, a 'clip' on the back of the players head and a foot in the face of the Brighton player.

The 'official' version, released long after the event so that arses can be well and truly, was for 'foul and abusive language' directed at the linesman, yet a fair number of people have suggested that Beckford barely spoke to the linesman.

Interestingly the BBC diplomatically 'missed' the incident.......

[marbelladave]

Excellent thought-provoking post. We seem to live in an era where everyone wants to justify their existence by making changes but when no-one takes the time to test the changes out and ascertain whether they actually improve things...the offside rule being an obvious example.

You mention rugby and while the authorities have made a complete mockery of the league system so that fans are paying significant sums to see the second team and other reserves much of the time, the sin-bin system and use of new technology works well.

Many of the things being debated in football could be sorted fairly and at the time by use of new technology with each team having the sort of three appeals system used in tennis and the referee having reference to serious situations where a sending off might be appropriate.

Another thing that might be worth considering is delayed discipline, where any sending off is held over until the authorities have looked at the video footage and decided whether such action is appropriate. I say this because so many mistakes are being made every weekend and, as you've mentioned, games are being ruined for all who've paid their money to see a fair and proper contest which is never the case when one team has fewer players than the other.

Why does this have to be the case anyway? Why not review the evidence and just suspend the player, if appropriate, for the next so many games. And why not deduct a club one point for every two or three players sent off? That would surely focus their attention on good discipline. With every decision being made on proper evidence there would be very little chance of injustice.

I have suggested a system where Red cards are only given for really serious offences, proper dangerous play or dissent so serious that it has to be dealt with.

Players collect as many yellow cards as are given, after the game the ref 'grades' the offences from say, 1 pt for a technical offence up to 5 pts for the most serious.

The players points are totted up and bans issued on the points aquired over a rolling 10 game period, ie too many points aquired in the last 10 games and the player gets a ban. These can be made severe enough that a regular offender spends more time being banned than playing.

It has the additional advantage that players who collect a lot of bans become much less valuble to their club, both in playing and financial terms.

[Guest Col city fan]

When i got home last night I watched a 'real time' rerun of the Calcutta cup.

The ref is miked up, as in football but his comments, instructions and explanations are heard by all. He may get things wrong but everyone can hear the calls and the refs explanation of the discisions.

Compare this too the football, a player is Red Carded, completely changing the nature of the game and almost a day later we still do not definitively know the referees reasoning.......

I have been told by various sources that it was for 'foul and abusive language' directed at the linesman, 'foul and abusive language' directed at the Brighton player, a 'clip' on the back of the players head and a foot in the face of the Brighton player.

The 'official' version, released long after the event so that arses can be well and truly, was for 'foul and abusive language' directed at the linesman, yet a fair number of people have suggested that Beckford barely spoke to the linesman.

Interestingly the BBC diplomatically 'missed' the incident.......

Good post Dave..

The BBC though, don't forget, are possibly one of the most politically correct of all the British Institutions. The fact that the Beckford incident was conveniently overlooked last night is of no surprise.

Karl Marx had it about spot on... (hows this for a bit of 'socialism' Captain Shrapnel) ..The ruling elite does control the mindset of everyone else, presenting what they choose to present, covering over what they choose to cover over

The FA are a fantastic example of a 'closed shop' where any attempt at intrusion forces them to immediately close ranks and to 'punish', rather than 'explain.' FIFA are perhaps one of the best examples of this in action.

Stocky is absolutely right.. More transparency on the part of footballing officials, although giving them more stress in the short-term, may well result in the fans reviving their faith them over the long-term which can only be good for the game.

[lcfc81]

I was thinking yesterday about pre-proffessional refs.

Although my memory might not be perfect, I am sure the standard was better?

Maybe being paid is attracting the wrong sort of person

[Wherethefoxhat?]

The FA should consider copying the ECB (cricket) and encourage ex-pros to become officials .

To reach county standard umpiring requires five years of courses and monitoring and obviously the resulting benefits are enough to attract former players .

Why not do a similar thing with ex-pro footballers before we ruin the beautiful game completely ?