Lance Armstrong & Doping?

[Guesty]

I always thought there was too much smoke without fire with this guy. If everyone else was cheating and he was beating them stands to reason maybe he is as well. Then there's all the witnesses that say they've seen him do it. Apparently George Hincappe who is one of the most loyal riders in cycling (helped Armstrong win all his titles and helped Contador and Evans win) won't deny that he's been called to give evidence saying he knows Armstrong's guilty.

As for never failing a drugs test - Barry Bonds baseball, Marion Jones olympics - they never failed a drugs test either.

Personally, I feel a bit sorry for cyclists from the 90s and 00s, if everyone else is cheating and the powers that be arn't stopping it then what other chocie did top riders have but to dope as well. People have always cheated in cycling but in the past there was no way to detect it or no paper trail to find out - plus more importantly the public were oblivious to it. I remember watching a documentary about a british rider who rode himself to death in the TdF - he was on drugs as well.

Armstrong's book is brilliant and hes done a lot for charity which is why I think a lot of people defend him. I saw a good quote which sums up most of his fans - " Sadly, they don't defend him because they believe he's innocent. They defend him because they can't admit thier fallen hero is a fraud".

[purpleronnie]

I agree, seems very strange that he wouldnt continue the fight to clear his name, all this 'can't be bothered anymore' is ludicrus, if it was me i would fight it with everything I had for as long as it takes, this is his whole career being wiped out...how could you just let it happen...especially if you 'knew' you were innocent.

[Tielemans63]

Floyd Landis admits defrauding supporters out of $500k. The sport's reputation has been seriously tarnished (again) in recent weeks hasn't it? I'm a fan of cycling but you get the impression that many of the riders are utterly ruthless to the point of reckless.

(From Eurosport)

Former professional cyclist Floyd Landis, who implicated team-mate Lance Armstrong in a doping scheme, has agreed to a plea deal in federal court in San Diego, admitting he defrauded supporters out of nearly $500,000 by claiming that he himself had not doped, prosecutors said.

Landis was in court on the same day Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from professional cycling after dropping his challenge to US Anti-Doping Agency charges against him.

Prosecutors said the timing was coincidental and that the case against Landis, who won the Tour de France in 2006 but was disqualified for doping, had been in the works for months.

As part of the plea agreement, Landis, who has acknowledged using performance-enhancing drugs during his career, agreed to repay $478,354 in funds he raised for the "Floyd Fairness Fund" while battling the USADA.

He did not plead guilty but acknowledged wrongdoing under a "deferred prosecution agreement" that calls for prosecutors to dismiss wire fraud charges against him in three years if he lives up to his end of the deal.

"We didn't make him plead guilty but we made him admit the facts that are necessary to get a guilty plea," Assistant US Attorney Phil Halpern said.

An attorney for the former athlete could not be reached for comment following the hearing.

Prosecutors said that after he tested positive for exogenous testosterone during the 2006 Tour de France, Landis raised money from 1,765 contributors through town hall meetings, online videos, charity rides, a book and personal appeals - based in large part on his denials that he had doped.

"He lied to thousands of people and obtained hundreds of thousands of dollars by telling them a story that wasn't true," Halpern said. "Anybody who does should be aware that the (US Department of Justice) is not going to give them a pass."

In a statement posted on his website late on Thursday, Armstrong said he would no longer fight the USADA charges against him, declaring "enough is enough."

But in the statement the celebrated cyclist, one of the sporting world's most polarising figures, maintained his emphatic denial that he had ever used performance enhancing drugs.

Landis accused Armstrong in 2010 of using performance-enhancing drugs and teaching others how to avoid being caught.

Eurosport - Reuters - 25/08/2012 03:22

[Wycombe Fox]

I'm a bit confused.

How can USADA strip him of his seven TDF victories?

Surely that's like the FA stripping Brazil of their 2002 World Cup win.

I would have thought the most they could do would be to 'not recognise' his victories and pass any evidence to the UCI for them to decide whether the evidence is sufficient to warrant such an action.

[marko]

That's the problem. I'm sure UCI will challenge USADA's jurisdiction and no doubt it'll end up at CAS. We've not heard the end of this one yet.

[marko]

Usada report on Armstrong's doping. Full report to follow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903716

[Kilworthfox]

Usada report on Armstrong's doping. Full report to follow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ycling/19903716

The guy is guilty of taking performance enhansing drugs to compete at the top level of professional cycling. I don't want to believe it, but logic & reason even before seeing any evidence suggests that he doped. Lots of cyclists, household names doped. recently I have read David Millars autobiography & it was a massive insight into the life of a clean athelete pressured into doping by his team and competeition.

IMO Millar is one of the good guys because he actually admits to his faults, if Lance could do the same he would help cycling move past its untrusted past

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Halfway thru reading the submission, the evidence looks heavily weighted against Lance. So many of his team mates admitting it happened and tarnishing there own name by admitting they were doping is pretty overwhelming evidence.

[Guest MattP]

Incredible isn't it? Will wait until I read the full report but it appears the whole cycling team was just geared towards being the biggest sporting cheating success on the planet. When you see how far it went you wonder how they got any satisfaction out of it.

He's violated the whole concept of sport. His sponsors should sue him for everything he has.

[ozleicester]

From hero..to.... cvnt

Not only did he cheat and lie etc etc... but they had a plan to ensure that other riders would be virtually forced to go along with the cheating.

CVNT!!

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Lance said orginally that it was a vendetta against him but they have gone and charged numerous others mostly doctors and general managers of the team. Again all very daming evidence which is why Armstrong refuses to contest the charges.

[OzFox]

Lance said orginally that it was a vendetta against him but they have gone and charged numerous others mostly doctors and general managers of the team. Again all very daming evidence which is why Armstrong refuses to contest the charges.

From hero..to.... cvnt

Not only did he cheat and lie etc etc... but they had a plan to ensure that other riders would be virtually forced to go along with the cheating.

Four Corners are doing a story on him, Monday night. He sounds like a very dodgy geezer.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Will watch that cheers

[Raj]

Maybe a case (to a much lesser extent) to the Jimmy Saville thing that he was SO powerful a person in the sport that people were too scared to say anything against him.

To be fair to reach such a level in the 1st place you gotta be one of the fittest guys in the World and the motivation levels of him to beat his cancer etc he must be such a mind strong person to not allow ANYTHING to stop im winning....seems he went abit TOO far!

[Ozwin]

I read on article on him the other week, he hired a bike shop worker he knew from years back and totally and utterly ****ed him over. Sounds like a horrible horrible man, willing to do anything and everything to get and stay on top.

Will make a great book in a few years.

[ozleicester]

Maybe a case (to a much lesser extent) to the Jimmy Saville thing that he was SO powerful a person in the sport that people were too scared to say anything against him.

To be fair to reach such a level in the 1st place you gotta be one of the fittest guys in the World and the motivation levels of him to beat his cancer etc he must be such a mind strong person to not allow ANYTHING to stop im winning....seems he went abit TOO far!

Sorry Raj, this is cheating, not going a bit to far etc. Yes he was fit and yes he worked hard.. but he cheated and many many others who worked just as hard, perhaps even harder didnt get the results and recognition they deserved because this cheat took drugs and prevented them.

[Fox in the North]

Sorry Raj, this is cheating, not going a bit to far etc. Yes he was fit and yes he worked hard.. but he cheated and many many others who just as hard, perhaps even harder didnt get the results and recognition they deserved because this cheat took drugs and prevented them.

Exactly. For me it's such shame as so many people looked up to him as a superb role model, an inspiration. Well he's certainly gone and p*ssed over all that now.

[leicsmac]

In my mind, anyone who survives metastatic cancer with only a 10% chance of survival and then has the ability and application to come even vaguely close to competing at a high level of sport is a hero.

However, from the sporting perspective, the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible that he went from 'close to a high level' to 'the very top' by doping, and as such all of his sporting achievements are tainted forever. All of his results should be annuled.

I just hope this doesn't have too much of an effect on the charity he's founded because that's a different matter entirely and is doing a lot of good work.

[Raj]

Sorry Raj, this is cheating, not going a bit to far etc. Yes he was fit and yes he worked hard.. but he cheated and many many others who worked just as hard, perhaps even harder didnt get the results and recognition they deserved because this cheat took drugs and prevented them.

I Only meant it in the way that two so called "untouchables" in their professions felt they could almost do whatever they want and no one had the balls to say/do anything about it.

[ozleicester]

I Only meant it in the way that two so called "untouchables" in their professions felt they could almost do whatever they want and no one had the balls to say/do anything about it.

Apologies, i mis interpreted that

[Kilworthfox]

Just the facts!

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Guilty! End of, very sad that this culture was accepted & allowed to continue.

[marko]

Here's the 5 Live programme broadcast last night if anyone's interested. Some interesting interviews.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngqxd

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I pose this question:

Would people forgive Lance Armstrong if he took drugs in order to win, so that winning would raise his profile in order to make it easier for him to raise money and awareness for cancer?

I'm not sure that is the reason he cheated but it could of been thru fear of dying, he wanted to raise as much money as possible to find a cure for cancer. So if the cancer did come back he would be cured?

Further to this Livestrong Lance's foundation has raised over $500m for cancer research

[ozleicester]

I pose this question:

Would people forgive Lance Armstrong if he took drugs in order to win, so that winning would raise his profile in order to make it easier for him to raise money and awareness for cancer?

I'm not sure that is the reason he cheated but it could of been thru fear of dying, he wanted to raise as much money as possible to find a cure for cancer. So if the cancer did come back he would be cured?

Further to this Livestrong Lance's foundation has raised over $500m for cancer research

No way!

His charity has raised enormous sums and is certainly a positive outcome from his cheating, but who is to say that other cyclists wouldnt have done even more if they hadnt been prevented from succeeding due to Armstrongs cheating.

There are people around the world who raise millions without the benefit of support that this liar and cheat has had. His supposed $500 million, may well have been a billion if others had the opportunties that his cheating prevented.

The fact that he continues to deny, in the face of thousands of pieces of evidence and dozens (hundreds?) of witnesses just adds to his appalling behavior.

I have no doubt he hopes that people will brush over his cheating..by focusing on his charity work. But for me.. hes a cheat, a liar and self interested cvnt.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

No way!

His charity has raised enormous sums and is certainly a positive outcome from his cheating, but who is to say that other cyclists wouldnt have done even more if they hadnt been prevented from succeeding due to Armstrongs cheating.

There are people around the world who raise millions without the benefit of support that this liar and cheat has had. His supposed $500 million, may well have been a billion if others had the opportunties that his cheating prevented.

The fact that he continues to deny, in the face of thousands of pieces of evidence and dozens (hundreds?) of witnesses just adds to his appalling behavior.

I have no doubt he hopes that people will brush over his cheating..by focusing on his charity work. But for me.. hes a cheat, a liar and self interested cvnt.

Is there any other sports 'star' in the world that has raised as much as him tho?

Maybe after being so close to death by this dreadful disease that's what drove him to cheat? If the funds raised by Armstrongs charity gone on to cure cancer would we forgive him? Would it make the fraud and deception worthwhile?

I dislike Armstrong as much as the next person, i'm hating the fact his tarnished the sport but i'm just raising the above questions as i would love to hear peoples thoughts.