Nuneaton Away

[MGLCFC]

He's at the club, if he's good enough, fit, and suits the system the management will play on the day then waghorn will play. Get behind him not on his back

If Waggy pulls a blue shirt on he'll get my full support. Unfortunately, I don't see him featruring as Beckford, Nugent, Vardy and Futacs will surely be the 4 main strikers.

[morris1234]

If Waggy pulls a blue shirt on he'll get my full support. Unfortunately, I don't see him featruring as Beckford, Nugent, Vardy and Futacs will surely be the 4 main strikers.

Thats fair enough mate. I just don't see the point in slagging him off because when he does get called upon he's going to be out of form and confidence and the last thing he needs is people on his back.

After all every player that isn't regarded as 'first choice' has to be amazing every time they come on for ten minutes or so and they will have no excuse if they don't come off that pitch having scored 93 goals!

[MGLCFC]

Thats fair enough mate. I just don't see the point in slagging him off because when he does get called upon he's going to be out of form and confidence and the last thing he needs is people on his back.

I'm not trying to slag him off, just suggesting that I don't think he'll want to hang around at Leicester if he isn't even getting on the bench (and that assumes he's ahead of Schlupp) and that's a real possibility if Beckford and Nugent are the 2 main strikers. Pearson has just bought Vardy for £1mil, so he's likely to feature and Futacs will be the plan B.

[morris1234]

I'm not trying to slag him off, just suggesting that I don't think he'll want to hang around at Leicester if he isn't even getting on the bench (and that assumes he's ahead of Schlupp) and that's a real possibility if Beckford and Nugent are the 2 main strikers. Pearson has just bought Vardy for £1mil, so he's likely to feature and Futacs will be the plan B.

I wasn't saying that you were personally, I do agree that he will be down the pecking order I just feel there is no need for anybody to start picking at his faults for a few pre season games where he hasn't shone.

[Dan]

It's not just a few pre-season games though is it, he tends to look out of his depth every time he takes to the field for us these days.

I do hope he can turn it around but I'm not holding my breath, he just looks total shite every time I see him nowadays, I don't get how he's turned so poor.

[HoustonFox]

Don't know if this has already been written but here are my thoughts... after only watching the highlights obviously...

Bolger looked shocking.

Beckford and Kennedy seem to have an understanding (play it early and over the top into space and I will outpace and score). I seem to remember a game last season where they did too.

Futac's shot was terrible but funny for Beckford's goal but his hold up and link up for his goal was nice.

Logan - not sure what you are doing for their goal son but you sure yelled at Bolger!

Yes, it was against Nuneaton but what else have I got to go on for this game?

Is Sat's game on Thai TV?

[Master Fox]

Can someone post the highlights please?

[nuttytimmy]

Don't know if this has already been written but here are my thoughts... after only watching the highlights obviously...

Bolger looked shocking.

Beckford and Kennedy seem to have an understanding (play it early and over the top into space and I will outpace and score). I seem to remember a game last season where they did too.

Futac's shot was terrible but funny for Beckford's goal but his hold up and link up for his goal was nice.

Logan - not sure what you are doing for their goal son but you sure yelled at Bolger!

Yes, it was against Nuneaton but what else have I got to go on for this game?

Is Sat's game on Thai TV?

I went, and will concur. Bolger was a liability and Parkes did well having to bail him out often. Kennedy was bright when he played those 2/3 games last season, too, and I would expect him to apply some pressure on the first team in the near future - Liam Moore, too. Moore didn't play with the 'youth' team at Loughborough or the 'development' team at Nuneaton, so I guess he's solidly with the first team now. You have to say (perhaps in hushed tones, however!) that the squad is beginning to look like it has some depth!

[Orkneyfox]

Just tried one of those rabona passes in my sitting room and just fell over.

[HoustonFox]

I went, and will concur. Bolger was a liability and Parkes did well having to bail him out often. Kennedy was bright when he played those 2/3 games last season, too, and I would expect him to apply some pressure on the first team in the near future - Liam Moore, too. Moore didn't play with the 'youth' team at Loughborough or the 'development' team at Nuneaton, so I guess he's solidly with the first team now. You have to say (perhaps in hushed tones, however!) that the squad is beginning to look like it has some depth!

Thanks Tim, appreciate your views after actually being there. Did Taft or Harry come on?

[scousefox4]

Taft came on for Kennedy at half time , looked solid at left back .

[Thracian]

Not sure why people are getting on waghorns back? He's been on loan , had to return the area etc , had an uncertain future under Sven and a serious injury. I don't think there'd be a single player out there who would hit the ground running straight away can we not keep finding somebody to have a go at please?

He's proved before what he can do and as much as some say it's no excuse...if he hadn't done it then you'd be whinging that he's never proved himself for us before anyway so he can't win.

He's at the club, if he's good enough, fit, and suits the system the management will play on the day then waghorn will play. Get behind him not on his back

Waghorn's proved nothing. He's typical of the busy-looking player Leicester fans so love to promote - people like Abe, Kaebi and more recently Danns - but so often they're all steam and no substance.

I'd never say never but Waghorn, so far, has been like an unbridled colt when he's been around at all - all action but no discipline.

What he needs most as a striker is to develop some ruthlessness - the cold, clinical ability to understand that putting the ball in the net is what's important, not how hard you whack it.

I'd expected to see some improvement by now given all the coaching he should have had - improvement in his decision-making, improvement in his balance on the ball when he shoots and improvement in his ability to use his right foot as well as his left because he's as one-footed as any footballer i can think of and that's a blessing for defenders.

Good luck to the lad but I'll be surprised if he makes much impact here.

[Mark_w]

Waghorn's proved nothing. He's typical of the busy-looking player Leicester fans so love to promote - people like Abe, Kaebi and more recently Danns - but so often they're all steam and no substance.

I'd never say never but Waghorn, so far, has been like an unbridled colt when he's been around at all - all action but no discipline.

What he needs most as a striker is to develop some ruthlessness - the cold, clinical ability to understand that putting the ball in the net is what's important, not how hard you whack it.

I'd expected to see some improvement by now given all the coaching he should have had - improvement in his decision-making, improvement in his balance on the ball when he shoots and improvement in his ability to use his right foot as well as his left because he's as one-footed as any footballer i can think of and that's a blessing for defenders.

Good luck to the lad but I'll be surprised if he makes much impact here.

Did you not spend all season praising Beckford?

Why does he not have 'to develop some ruthlessness - the cold, clinical ability to understand that putting the ball in the net is what's important, not how hard you whack it.', his goal scoring record was worse than Waghorn's in his first season here, he has never done it above League One level (Where lets be honest Waggy would do very well), what is it that means Waghorn can score 12 at this level but is unlikely to ever do well here, but that Beckford can get 9 at this level and he deserves to be praised for his work last season?

I don't understand why people have to automatically dismiss any striker that works hard, does that not mean that they can't score at a decen ratio? Plus we've got to look at the fact that Waggy is only in his early twenties he has a lot of seasons to develop so there's every chance he is going to make an impact here, all he needs to do is recapture his past form (Now he's got a manager who rates him back there is no reason he can't), and then continue to develop at the rate we'd expect of a player his age. Waghorn is the most promising young striker we have at the club, a player who when he was the same age Schlupp is now was netting 12 goals in the Championship. Moving him on, and keeping a striker whose record above League One is worse, who is on twice as much money, and has maybe 3 or 4 years left in him at this level would be in my opinion criminal.

I don't see how you can say Waghorn is unproven at this level yet from what I've seen you believe Beckford who has scored less at this level is?

What are judging that on because it can't be goals scored at this level which is what you seem to be saying is the important factor.

[Corky]

I don't remember Thrac praising Beckford all season.

[Mark_w]

I don't remember Thrac praising Beckford all season.

I wasn't around all season, just looking back through a few of the posts he has got rep for which suggested he did, but my point stands to anyone suggesting Beckford is proven and Waghorn isn't.

[fleckneymike]

Did you not spend all season praising Beckford?

Why does he not have 'to develop some ruthlessness - the cold, clinical ability to understand that putting the ball in the net is what's important, not how hard you whack it.', his goal scoring record was worse than Waghorn's in his first season here, he has never done it above League One level (Where lets be honest Waggy would do very well), what is it that means Waghorn can score 12 at this level but is unlikely to ever do well here, but that Beckford can get 9 at this level and he deserves to be praised for his work last season?

I don't understand why people have to automatically dismiss any striker that works hard, does that not mean that they can't score at a decen ratio? Plus we've got to look at the fact that Waggy is only in his early twenties he has a lot of seasons to develop so there's every chance he is going to make an impact here, all he needs to do is recapture his past form (Now he's got a manager who rates him back there is no reason he can't), and then continue to develop at the rate we'd expect of a player his age. Waghorn is the most promising young striker we have at the club, a player who when he was the same age Schlupp is now was netting 12 goals in the Championship. Moving him on, and keeping a striker whose record above League One is worse, who is on twice as much money, and has maybe 3 or 4 years left in him at this level would be in my opinion criminal.

I don't see how you can say Waghorn is unproven at this level yet from what I've seen you believe Beckford who has scored less at this level is?

What are judging that on because it can't be goals scored at this level which is what you seem to be saying is the important factor.

I thought Thracian made a series of reasonable points, specifically the way in which Waghorn strikes the ball. No one is wishing the boy ill, it's just that many still see the same weakness' in his game from his breakout season and feel he has regressed. Sadly some players do go backwards and regretfully Waghorn appears to be one of them.

In terms of Beckford, he has some form on his side as he's got into double figures for the season for the past 5 years scoring 110 goals in the process. Yes the majority of these came in division 1 but non the less to score that amount of goals indicates some ability. In addition during that period he's scored against Spurs, United, Chelsea (in each of the 3 times he's faced them) and Liverpool as well as other Premiership sides which lends some credence to the belief he can do well at this level and possibly beyond.

[Corky]

Good post Mike.

[Mark_w]

I thought Thracian made a series of reasonable points, specifically the way in which Waghorn strikes the ball. No one is wishing the boy ill, it's just that many still see the same weakness' in his game from his breakout season and feel he has regressed. Sadly some players do go backwards and regretfully Waghorn appears to be one of them.

In terms of Beckford, he has some form on his side as he's got into double figures for the season for the past 5 years scoring 110 goals in the process. Yes the majority of these came in division 1 but non the less to score that amount of goals indicates some ability. In addition during that period he's scored against Spurs, United, Chelsea (in each of the 3 times he's faced them) and Liverpool as well as other Premiership sides which lends some credence to the belief he can do well at this level and possibly beyond.

I don't see how you can still see the same weakness in his game as you did in his breakout season when he has barely played and when he has (Which lets face it is very infrequently) it was out of position or coming off the bench, similarly I think it's unfair to say he has regressed when he has had so few chances. I just find it infuriating to read 'Waghorn runs around a lot but that's it' when during his only real full season at this level he scored more than Beckford, someone almost universally popular on here, who has scored fewer in his attempts above League One. I don't think anyone in our side apart from Nugent has done any more than Waghorn to suggest they deserve their place. As for his scoring record in League One, Fryatt's was very similar, but you wouldn't believe he had undoubted ability to perform at this level if you read the posts of the majority on here. I just wish people would stop using 'So and so works hard but that's the only reason anyone rates him' when in fact half the time their scoring record is pretty similar if not better than the so called 'Lazy goalscorers' just because a player works hard doesn't mean they can't score goals, and when he has played in a 4-4-2 as a striker, regularly for us, Waghorn's goal record has been very good. (About 1 in every 3 games under Pearson, including Hull and last year, I believe)

[fleckneymike]

I don't see how you can still see the same weakness in his game as you did in his breakout season when he has barely played and when he has (Which lets face it is very infrequently) it was out of position or coming off the bench, similarly I think it's unfair to say he has regressed when he has had so few chances. I just find it infuriating to read 'Waghorn runs around a lot but that's it' when during his only real full season at this level he scored more than Beckford, someone almost universally popular on here, who has scored fewer in his attempts above League One. I don't think anyone in our side apart from Nugent has done any more than Waghorn to suggest they deserve their place. As for his scoring record in League One, Fryatt's was very similar, but you wouldn't believe he had undoubted ability to perform at this level if you read the posts of the majority on here. I just wish people would stop using 'So and so works hard but that's the only reason anyone rates him' when in fact half the time their scoring record is pretty similar if not better than the so called 'Lazy goalscorers' just because a player works hard doesn't mean they can't score goals, and when he has played in a 4-4-2 as a striker, regularly for us, Waghorn's goal record has been very good. (About 1 in every 3 games under Pearson, including Hull and last year, I believe)

He appeared 32 times in the season he signed on full time and I saw the vast majority of those games. Yes he started only 12 times and made 20 substitue appearances but he started in 11 of the first 13 matches and proceeded to make appearances from the bench in the remaining games.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, he likes to operate on the right hand side of a front two in a 442 and unfortunately for him that is Nugent's preferred position in that set up. I think we can both agree that we wouldn't drop Nugent in favour of Waghorn. That being the case we have a £2-3m substitute who will only get fleeting chances from the bench, if we agree to keep perceived weaknesses out the equation then it doesn't make much sense to keep him on the bench for the next two seasons and lose him on a free transfer if he is unwilling to renew his deal.

[Mark_w]

He appeared 32 times in the season he signed on full time and I saw the vast majority of those games. Yes he started only 12 times and made 20 substitue appearances but he started in 11 of the first 13 matches and proceeded to make appearances from the bench in the remaining games.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, he likes to operate on the right hand side of a front two in a 442 and unfortunately for him that is Nugent's preferred position in that set up. I think we can both agree that we wouldn't drop Nugent in favour of Waghorn. That being the case we have a £2-3m substitute who will only get fleeting chances from the bench, if we agree to keep perceived weaknesses out the equation then it doesn't make much sense to keep him on the bench for the next two seasons and lose him on a free transfer if he is unwilling to renew his deal.

On the wing, which was my point.

Nugent is perfectly capable of operating on the left hand side of the strikeforce, and Waghorn has done more than Beckford, Vardy, Futacs and Schlupp at this level so we'd be foolish not to give him a real chance this season.

[fleckneymike]

On the wing, which was my point.

Nugent is perfectly capable of operating on the left hand side of the strikeforce, and Waghorn has done more than Beckford, Vardy, Futacs and Schlupp at this level so we'd be foolish not to give him a real chance this season.

Those starts were up front, and in fairness the majority of his sub appearances were also up front. If you don't believe me you can check at soccerbase to see who he replaced.

Nugent is most effective on the right, he can play on the left when in a 433/451 but it seems counter intuitive to move a performing striker from he preferred position to accomodate another under performing one. It would also restrict your ability to alter shape mid game as it would require substituting Waghorn if you wished to deploy a front 3 as he could not fulfil the target man role or occupy place on the flanks.

[Mark_w]

Those starts were up front, and in fairness the majority of his sub appearances were also up front. If you don't believe me you can check at soccerbase to see who he replaced.

Nugent is most effective on the right, he can play on the left when in a 433/451 but it seems counter intuitive to move a performing striker from he preferred position to accomodate another under performing one. It would also restrict your ability to alter shape mid game as it would require substituting Waghorn if you wished to deploy a front 3 as he could not fulfil the target man role or occupy place on the flanks.

I'm seem to remember him playing on the wing almost exclusivley under Sousa and mostly there under Sven, but if you've got a link that suggests otherwise I'd be happy to see it?

I'm really not sure about your suggestion that Nugent is best of the right of a two man attack and so is Waghorn anyway. As for limiting our ability to change shape, well Beckford can't fulfil the target man role or play on the wing either, shall we move him on?

Edit: Ok so I've looked on soccerbase and it seems to me that Fryatt/Howard were used as the central striker and Waghorn almost always on the wing as I thought. Unless you're telling me that Howard was played on the wing, or I'm making us playing 4-3-3 up?

[fleckneymike]

Beckford scored the majority of his Everton goals as the focal point of a 451/433. Admittedly he didn't play as a target man but he can operate there.

My suggestion about Nugent is that if we play 442 then he is most effective on the right hand side of a front 2. Waghorn is really only effective on the right hand side of a 442 despite being left footed so if Pearson were to play 442 in order to accomodate Waghorn he would realistically have to play Nugent on his weaker side. Personally I don't think that makes sense.

[Guest Col city fan]

I thought Thracian made a series of reasonable points, specifically the way in which Waghorn strikes the ball. No one is wishing the boy ill, it's just that many still see the same weakness' in his game from his breakout season and feel he has regressed. Sadly some players do go backwards and regretfully Waghorn appears to be one of them.

In terms of Beckford, he has some form on his side as he's got into double figures for the season for the past 5 years scoring 110 goals in the process. Yes the majority of these came in division 1 but non the less to score that amount of goals indicates some ability. In addition during that period he's scored against Spurs, United, Chelsea (in each of the 3 times he's faced them) and Liverpool as well as other Premiership sides which lends some credence to the belief he can do well at this level and possibly beyond.

Good post this one Mike.

[Mark_w]

Beckford scored the majority of his Everton goals as the focal point of a 451/433. Admittedly he didn't play as a target man but he can operate there.

My suggestion about Nugent is that if we play 442 then he is most effective on the right hand side of a front 2. Waghorn is really only effective on the right hand side of a 442 despite being left footed so if Pearson were to play 442 in order to accomodate Waghorn he would realistically have to play Nugent on his weaker side. Personally I don't think that makes sense.

I'm not saying Waghorn has to start at all, I just think it would be sensible to keep him around given that his wages aren't that high and he's done as much as any of our other strikers at this level. Plus I honestly think that Nugent does well on the left hand side of the strikeforce from what I remember of him there last year. Still can't remember Waggy playing much game time up front after Nigel left, and when he has played there for him his record has been great.