Nuneaton Away

[MGLCFC]

Are we not still judging Beckford on what he did for another club two seasons ago?

How about Mills was he not judged by many of our fans on what he'd done two seasons ago?

When Tunchev was around we were still judging him on his performances two years previous.

A twenty-two year old does not just lose it, he has been misused in terms of the position he played and has had injury issues, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly a bad player. He has to be a better option than Schlupp for me because he has proved himself at this level, we need to give Jeff an opportunity to do that at this level, it isn't going to come here right now so why not let him spend a year at somewhere like Barnsley or Bristol City and give him the opportunity to actually prove he's any better than Waghorn?

But that's my point exactly - he's 22 and wants to play football - he's not going to achieve this at Leicester being 5th choice. You can't seriously believe that he is going to start games can you? He'll be lucky to be on the bench. Whilst he showed promise two seasons ago, I don't feel he has developed and still makes the same mistakes he did when he first joined, added with the fact he appears muscled bound which seems to be a hinderance rather than a development.

[Mark_w]

All this speculation of him leaving would nige be giving him games if he was leaving?

I highly doubt that Beckford will be leaving, but if Nigel wanted to get rid and there was little interest then he probably would be starting him in friendlies to try and get clubs interested in signing him, and Beckford would probably be trying harder than usual to convince clubs that he's worth the best wages. Can't see him leaving now though I must admit.

But that's my point exactly - he's 22 and wants to play football - he's not going to achieve this at Leicester being 5th choice. You can't seriously believe that he is going to start games can you? He'll be lucky to be on the bench. Whilst he showed promise two seasons ago, I don't feel he has developed and still makes the same mistakes he did when he first joined, added with the fact he appears muscled bound which seems to be a hinderance rather than a development.

I don't think he's 5th choice, and I think he'll get more games than you expect him too. Nigel obviously rates him (And not for no reason, but because Waghorn has always done a good job under Pearson) and with seven substitues I think that Waggy would get enough game time to keep him happy. I expect Schlupp will go on loan, I guess it will come down to if Nigel thinks he can balance 5 strikers and if not who he wants to keep, Waghorn or Beckford. I think you could make a pretty good argument for either, although I'm sure most will disagree with me.

[NiftyFox]

I think eveyone should remember that Waghorn is a favourite of Pearsons, the reason why he is still at our club and why Nigel wanted him at Hull. Waghorn hasn't had a chance to show his talent from 2 seasons ago. Sven didn't like him so left him out which halted his confidence and then he was injured most of last season. Its such a shame as he does have the potential and was a fans favourite. We spent £3million on him and I expect to see him starting some games.

[Guest Col city fan]

Are we not still judging Beckford on what he did for another club two seasons ago?

How about Mills was he not judged by many of our fans on what he'd done two seasons ago?

When Tunchev was around we were still judging him on his performances two years previous.

A twenty-two year old does not just lose it, he has been misused in terms of the position he played and has had injury issues, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly a bad player. He has to be a better option than Schlupp for me because he has proved himself at this level, we need to give Jeff an opportunity to do that at this level, it isn't going to come here right now so why not let him spend a year at somewhere like Barnsley or Bristol City and give him the opportunity to actually prove he's any better than Waghorn?

You're flogging a bit of a dead horse with Waggy on here mate. In my experience, most people really don't rate him very much.

I have an idea. Shall I start a poll?

Or, ok maybe not....

[GianEmmo Zola]

Waghorn is a favourite of pearsons, he needed him at hull because they had mcclean and fryatt and no other decent forward i cant recall. Whereas now at city pearson has come back with a whole host of decent attackIng options in beckford, nugent and the emergence of jeff. And with the signings of vardy and futacs i think his days are numbered maybe a loan deal somewhere to get his match fitness/confidence back and in a year he maybe closer to pushing out one of the other strikers here.

[Mark_w]

You're flogging a bit of a dead horse with Waggy on here mate. In my experience, most people really don't rate him very much.

I have an idea. Shall I start a poll?

Or, ok maybe not....

I trust the opinion of the majority of Foxes Talk posters on a player about as much as I trust your ability to create a decent poll.

[Guest Col city fan]

I trust the opinion of the majority of Foxes Talk posters on a player about as much as I trust your ability to create a decent poll.

About zero then I would suspect?

[NiftyFox]

Waghorn is a favourite of pearsons, he needed him at hull because they had mcclean and fryatt and no other decent forward i cant recall. Whereas now at city pearson has come back with a whole host of decent attackIng options in beckford, nugent and the emergence of jeff. And with the signings of vardy and futacs i think his days are numbered maybe a loan deal somewhere to get his match fitness/confidence back and in a year he maybe closer to pushing out one of the other strikers here.

Give him a chance which is what he needs, then we will see.

Another point also is he was the one who missed the penatly in Cardiff. Thats must have dented his confidence as you could see from his emotion afterwards.

[Babylon]

I think with Waghorn he's going to need a run of games to get close to recapturing the form he had here a couple of years ago. The problem is I can't see him getting that time here unless we struggle in injuries at some point.

[Mark_w]

Give him a chance which is what he needs, then we will see.

Another point also is he was the one who missed the penatly in Cardiff. Thats must have dented his confidence as you could see from his emotion afterwards.

I think the fact that we were still willing to spend £3,000,000 on him would have nullified any effect that had on his confidence, it's more likely that being misused by one manager and then not being given a chance at all by another would have dented his confidence. Still he obviously played well last time Nigel was his manager and he got his goal against Leeds to be fair to him so I'm confident that with another full season under Pearson we will see a return to his previous form from the loan spell. What is crucial though is that we continue to support him from the stands as with Beckford, it's ok to slate players on a forum if you genuinly don't think they are good enough or you think that they need to be sold for whatever reason (And it's ok for people to disagree with you), but I'd hope that both still get a positive response from the fans at the King Power.

[GianEmmo Zola]

Give him a chance which is what he needs, then we will see.

Another point also is he was the one who missed the penatly in Cardiff. Thats must have dented his confidence as you could see from his emotion afterwards.

Id love us to give him a chance but who would you replace in the starting 11 at this moment in time? Its hard one to call, if pearson just drops one of his more prolific /in form strikers just to play waggy and it back fires. Fans will not have the patience, from previous experience!

[Mark_w]

Id love us to give him a chance but who would you replace in the starting 11 at this moment in time? Its hard one to call, if pearson just drops one of his more prolific /in form strikers just to play waggy and it back fires. Fans will not have the patience, from previous experience!

Who are they then? I can think of one at the moment, two if you include the Blue Square Premier.

[fleckneymike]

The signing of Waghorn has proven to be a very expensive mistake. Milan made the Thai's spend money that he himself was not willing to spend on a player who I think most of us would admit was at best overpriced. The signing was designed to get fans on board with the takeover and was meant to be seen as a statement of intent.

12 goals in his first season was a good return, however the limitations which plagued his game then still exist now and I doubt even the most myopic fan believes we'll ever get our money back. His desire and enthusiasm are not in doubt, however these are not enough to mask his technical and tactical shortcomings which have been scouted by opposition clubs and mean he has grown steadily less effective.

[Mark_w]

The signing of Waghorn has proven to be a very expensive mistake. Milan made the Thai's spend money that he himself was not willing to spend on a player who I think most of us would admit was at best overpriced. The signing was designed to get fans on board with the takeover and was meant to be seen as a statement of intent.

Absolutely true, however the money we would get back for him is minimal and his wages not extortionate. Under the same manage who got the most out of him last time, hopefully giving him the same confidence as he had in his first season I'm sure we'll see the best of him. He's still young and still has a lot of time to develop, something he can do if used in rotation with our other strikers this season. No need to throw away an obviously talented young player just because he has been misuesed for a couple of seasons, he at least deserves a chance playing a decent number of games as a central striker to try and show what he had in the Play-Off season and more. Think some people are writing him off far too early, same with Andy King to be fair.

[MGLCFC]

Who are they then? I can think of one at the moment, two if you include the Blue Square Premier.

Nugent and Beckford are better strikers than Waghorn - that may be an opinion, but I think it is shared by most.

If Pearson was confident Waghorn was good enough to be a first choice striker then there wouldn't have been any need to sign Vardy. By signing Vardy I would suggest he is likely to be ahead of Waghorn at this point of the season, for a starting place.

Whilst Futacs is a different type of player, he will always be on the bench before Waghorn as he offers something different. Therefore, I still see Waghaorn as 5th choice, at best.

I agree, Waghorn has not had a fair deal at Leicester over the last two seasons, yet I just don't see where he fits in with all the strikers we have available and Marshall, Knockaert, Schlupp, Gallagher and Dyer who can play wide.

[fleckneymike]

Absolutely true, however the money we would get back for him is minimal and his wages not extortionate. Under the same manage who got the most out of him last time, hopefully giving him the same confidence as he had in his first season I'm sure we'll see the best of him. He's still young and still has a lot of time to develop, something he can do if used in rotation with our other strikers this season. No need to throw away an obviously talented young player just because he has been misuesed for a couple of seasons, he at least deserves a chance playing a decent number of games as a central striker to try and show what he had in the Play-Off season and more. Think some people are writing him off far too early, same with Andy King to be fair.

I would dispute that he is obviously talented as I would that he has been misused.

Even in his first season he was frequently used from the bench and this appeared to have little effect on him. Sometimes you have to look dispassionately at things and cut your losses.

[Mark_w]

I would dispute that he is obviously talented as I would that he has been misused.

Even in his first season he was frequently used from the bench and this appeared to have little effect on him. Sometimes you have to look dispassionately at things and cut your losses.

When I said misused I was talking about him being shoved out on the wing as he was almost soley used in that manner under Sousa if my memory serves me correctly.

He is talented, we just need to utilise him correctly and give him the confidence to use it and to develop. He wouldn't have been at Sunderland, Steve Bruce wouldn't have been talking about him as 4th choice at Sunderland in the Premier League if he wasn't talented...

[fleckneymike]

When I said misused I was talking about him being shoved out on the wing as he was almost soley used in that manner under Sousa if my memory serves me correctly.

He is talented, we just need to utilise him correctly and give him the confidence to use it and to develop. He wouldn't have been at Sunderland, Steve Bruce wouldn't have been talking about him as 4th choice at Sunderland in the Premier League if he wasn't talented...

But he would have been talking in such terms if he were attempting to drive up the price. Steve Bruce has managed to take nearly £6m from this club for DJ Campbell, Waghorn, Clamence and N'Gotty. We have thus far got £1m back.

[Mark_w]

But he would have been talking in such terms if he were attempting to drive up the price. Steve Bruce has managed to take nearly £6m from this club for DJ Campbell, Waghorn, Clamence and N'Gotty. We have thus far got £1m back.

Fine you could look at it that way, but he is talented, I think you'd be very harsh to claim he isn't. He has his downside like any player but for a what 20 year old(?) to get 12 goals in the Championship, they have to be talented. Go back and read some of the threads from around the end of the Play-Off season and before Nigel went and I think you'll find that the vast majority felt he was a very talented young player, as I did when I watched him that year. He is a young promising player, it's far too early to write him off and if he does leave there is every chance he'll go and do a great job for a different team. And unlike some of the older players we've let go we'd be regretting that for a long time, he needs another season playing more regularly than he did under Sven, and in his favoured position before we should be even thinking about getting rid.

[fleckneymike]

Fine you could look at it that way, but he is talented, I think you'd be very harsh to claim he isn't. He has his downside like any player but for a what 20 year old(?) to get 12 goals in the Championship, they have to be talented. Go back and read some of the threads from around the end of the Play-Off season and before Nigel went and I think you'll find that the vast majority felt he was a very talented young player, as I did when I watched him that year. He is a young promising player, it's far too early to write him off and if he does leave there is every chance he'll go and do a great job for a different team. And unlike some of the older players we've let go we'd be regretting that for a long time, he needs another season playing more regularly than he did under Sven, and in his favoured position before we should be even thinking about getting rid.

No one is disputing he had a good season in 09/10 but he was somewhat of an unknown quantity that season, since then clubs know what to expect from him. If you watch his goals back they tend to fall into a couple categories, punt upfield for him to run in to, headed goal from set piece. What is more noticeable is that the overwhelming majority of his goals (10/12) come from the right hand side.This is the position traditionally occupied by Nugent, that automatically will put him down the pecking order and limit his opportunities.

[GingerrrFox]

No one is disputing he had a good season in 09/10 but he was somewhat of an unknown quantity that season, since then clubs know what to expect from him. If you watch his goals back they tend to fall into a couple categories, punt upfield for him to run in to, headed goal from set piece. What is more noticeable is that the overwhelming majority of his goals (10/12) come from the right hand side.This is the position traditionally occupied by Nugent, that automatically will put him down the pecking order and limit his opportunities.

Wrong about Nugent, he prefers to cut in from the left and shoot on his right foot, just look at his goal against Southampton...I can list more if you want. For Portsmouth they often played him as a left forward off Dave Kitson, Waghorn is left footed and likes to cut in from the opposite side on the right. Hence why they could both feasibly play off Futacs as a target man and cut in on their favoured foot.

[MattyFromLE]

When I said misused I was talking about him being shoved out on the wing as he was almost soley used in that manner under Sousa if my memory serves me correctly.

He is talented, we just need to utilise him correctly and give him the confidence to use it and to develop. He wouldn't have been at Sunderland, Steve Bruce wouldn't have been talking about him as 4th choice at Sunderland in the Premier League if he wasn't talented...

In all fairness, most of those are good, composed finishes. There aren't many 3 yard tap-ins - I know they all count but he did and still does have talent - you don't just lose it. He will feature, I am sure he understands his place in the pecking order, at a club with strikers like Nugent and Beckford, he has to be content with working hard to try get a place in the team, then we'll see which Waghorn turns up.

[Mark_w]

No one is disputing he had a good season in 09/10 but he was somewhat of an unknown quantity that season, since then clubs know what to expect from him. If you watch his goals back they tend to fall into a couple categories, punt upfield for him to run in to, headed goal from set piece. What is more noticeable is that the overwhelming majority of his goals (10/12) come from the right hand side.This is the position traditionally occupied by Nugent, that automatically will put him down the pecking order and limit his opportunities.

GingerrrFox is right about Nugent, and a lot of those long ball goals he did brilliantly to conrtol, and as Kasper has a good kick on him that would be a decent source of goals for us this season, especially if Futacs proves to be a useful target man. Those goals clearly do show his quality and I would certainly dispute the 'He has an awful first touch' and 'He never hits a shot on target' myth. He just needs to get his confidence back in front of goal (Hopefully the Leeds game helped with that) and he'll do fine for us again. Beckford is 28, scored 9 league goals in his one season used properly in the Championship and is on £30,000 a week. Waghorn is 22, scored 12 league goals in his one season used properly in the Championship and is on considerably less, if you asked me now I know which one I'd rather have for the next 3/4/5 years.

[fleckneymike]

Wrong about Nugent, he prefers to cut in from the left and shoot on his right foot, just look at his goal against Southampton...I can list more if you want. For Portsmouth they often played him as a left forward off Dave Kitson, Waghorn is left footed and likes to cut in from the opposite side on the right. Hence why they could both feasibly play off Futacs as a target man and cut in on their favoured foot.

In a 433 he can operate either side. In a traditional 442, like at PNE...

[fleckneymike]

GingerrrFox is right about Nugent, and a lot of those long ball goals he did brilliantly to conrtol, and as Kasper has a good kick on him that would be a decent source of goals for us this season, especially if Futacs proves to be a useful target man. Those goals clearly do show his quality and I would certainly dispute the 'He has an awful first touch' and 'He never hits a shot on target' myth. He just needs to get his confidence back in front of goal (Hopefully the Leeds game helped with that) and he'll do fine for us again. Beckford is 28, scored 9 league goals in his one season used properly in the Championship and is on £30,000 a week. Waghorn is 22, scored 12 league goals in his one season used properly in the Championship and is on considerably less, if you asked me now I know which one I'd rather have for the next 3/4/5 years.

There you go with £30k a week. How do you know he is on 30k a week? Are you his accountant?

Waghorn's shooting stats (bold counts goals to on target only)

09/10 12 goals

on 27 off 33 44% (inc cup on 28 off 35) 43% 19% of shots = goal

10/11 4 goals

on 20 off 26 20% (inc cup on 21 off 26) 20% 8.5% of shots = goal

11/12 1 goal

on 3 off 2 30% (inc cup on 5 off 3) 20% 12.5% of shots = goal

And for balance here's Beckford's

on 31 off 32 29% (inc cup on 40 off 40) 37.5% 18.75% of shots = goal

Here's Nugent's

11/12 15 goals

on 52 off 50 29% (inc cup on 57 off 55) 28% 13.4% of shots = goal