Corky Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 "Serbian FA deny any forms of racism against England Under 21s" "Serbian FA also accuse Danny Rose of behaving in an "inappropriate, unsportsmanlike and vulgar manner" towards their fans" From the SSN Twitter. Disgusting. Let's all feel for those Serbian fans. How could they cope with this unsportsmanlike and vulgar behaviour when they were throwing coins at people?
James. Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 But an adequate punishment may help a country as a whole address a problem. Exactly. I find it a very strange argument to sit back and do nothing, no idea how that can in any way help anything or anyone. The momentum for change in society can be born in any number of places including football terraces.
Guest MattP Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 How can they even stand to defend what just happened? Let alone criticise someone else? Even when there is plenty of video and audio evidence that suggests the contrary. Disgusting indeed. We need to see the evidence to be honest first, we know there were racist chants from the fans but there is no hard evidence of racism from Serbian players as yet.
Kitchandro Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Not alright but definitely not a big deal. Men fight. Sometimes its on the pitch. If popular opinion is to be believed, rugby is full of stand up gentlemen who can sit on the ritcheous pedastal looking down on football and they are always scrapping on the pitch. What about the fans throwing things at the players? You don't see that as more serious? We can go on about the emotional pain of racism all day but the fact of the matter is some people can (and should) just brush it off and others can't. However if a bottle or a piece of metal flies into your face that will probably cause serious injury. They should be punished for both the racism and the violence, on and off the pitch.
Fox in the North Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Well just drawing to the conclusion from the videos and the audio that I've heard are enough abd in the way the fa have reacted, surely if there were no claims they wouldn't do, and I'd be amazed if they just took the words of just commentators from the night
yorkie1999 Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 This basically sums up why no punishment is worth the time. Its not just Serbia. People all round the world just dont understand racism anymore. Same as the Mobo awards? ****ing idiot. I think you've totally misunderstood my point about using an example such as the mobo awards. The point i'm making is that to get rid of racism the whole of society needs to integrate, but by having an award for your own ethnicity, disassociates yourself from the rest of society.
Kitchandro Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 I think you've totally misunderstood my point about using an example such as the mobo awards. The point i'm making is that to get rid of racism the whole of society needs to integrate, but by having an award for your own ethnicity, disassociates yourself from the rest of society. I don't think the mobo awards are what cause Serbians or others to be racists, they're just small-minded cretins who have been brought up wrong. I do sort of agree though, I've never understood why black pride is a good thing yet white pride would be seen as a bad thing. I think it's an unecessary 'us and them' thing, it's 2012 not 1952.
purpleronnie Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 I don't think the mobo awards are what cause Serbians or others to be racists, they're just small-minded cretins who have been brought up wrong. I do sort of agree though, I've never understood why black pride is a good thing yet white pride would be seen as a bad thing. I think it's an unecessary 'us and them' thing, it's 2012 not 1952. Because for 100's of years black people have been treated like shit, white people were the oppressors.
Father Ted Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 We need to see the evidence to be honest first, we know there were racist chants from the fans but there is no hard evidence of racism from Serbian players as yet. Yet again, MattP is the only one with a balanced head on. Like I've said time after time, we don't know exactly what Danny Rose did to cause such a reaction from the Serbian players.
Kitchandro Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Because for 100's of years black people have been treated like shit, white people were the oppressors. But that's not the case now, so that's irrelevant. I didn't oppress anyone. Are all white people the same to you? That's a bit racist Either you want equality or you want tension, you can't have it both ways.
Guest MattP Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Yet again, MattP is the only one with a balanced head on. Like I've said time after time, we don't know exactly what Danny Rose did to cause such a reaction from the Serbian players. It's racism, you'll generally find it's the only accusation in society you can make that automatically puts the burden of proof onto the defence to prove themselves not guilty rather than the other way round. Let's look at the facts. Some supporters made monkey noises. Wickham shouldnt have celebrated towards the Serbians after a goal of such importance, that was only going to stoke it up. Some fans came onto the pitch. Both sets of players at the end behaved poorly, who was at fault for that we don't yet know 100% Danny Rose kicked a ball towards supporters in an act of petulance for some reason There isn't a shred of evidence yet to suggest Danny Rose was racially abused by Serbian players. (and as far as I know none of squad our fluent in Serbian/Slavic) Clearly punishments need to be handed out and they will be to certain parties but lets not jump to rodiculous conculsions already. Remember the Oldham player last year who went off crying at Anfield and everyone on here was saying ban the supporter for life, the evidence was reviewed from police, fans and CCTV and he hadn't said a word and did nothing wrong.
Guest MattP Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Because for 100's of years black people have been treated like shit, white people were the oppressors. John Barnes did a fantastic article few weeks about how much relevance this carries now, (bascially saying fcuk all) and how footballers like Terry and Cole have far more in common in upbringing and culture than any descendent of the Slave Trade.
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 I don't think the mobo awards are what cause Serbians or others to be racists, they're just small-minded cretins who have been brought up wrong. I do sort of agree though, I've never understood why black pride is a good thing yet white pride would be seen as a bad thing. I think it's an unecessary 'us and them' thing, it's 2012 not 1952. You get opressed for years you rightly or wrongly have a chip on your shoulder for want of a better term, as a race white people have never really been opressed by other races and therefore have no reason to be publically proud as society has never viewed them as inferior or second class, it's pretty much the same reason the gay community have public displays of "Pride" There is much smaller chance of suffering racial discrimination even these days if your white (although I speak from experience it is possible) as the subject in hand shows. EDIT: And in response to your post to the other poster, they don't have equality, the problem is better these days but not gone, if a black guy walks into a pub in a some of the less open minded towns in Leicestershire I can guarantee there will be a fair few people making comments and looking down their noses at them.
yorkie1999 Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Because for 100's of years black people have been treated like shit, white people were the oppressors. Good job Nelson Mandella didn't think like that. He realised that his job wasn't to revenge the africaans but to integrate the black and white societies to make south africa a stronger nation.
Guest MattP Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 You get opressed for years you rightly or wrongly have a chip on your shoulder for want of a better term, as a race white people have never really been opressed by other races and therefore have no reason to be publically proud as society has never viewed them as inferior or second class, it's pretty much the same reason the gay community have public displays of "Pride" There is much smaller chance of suffering racial discrimination even these days if your white (although I speak from experience it is possible) as the subject in hand shows. Don't see much "Jew Pride" and they have had it worse than anyone through history.
Kitchandro Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 You get opressed for years you rightly or wrongly have a chip on your shoulder for want of a better term, as a race white people have never really been opressed by other races and therefore have no reason to be publically proud as society has never viewed them as inferior or second class, it's pretty much the same reason the gay community have public displays of "Pride" There is much smaller chance of suffering racial discrimination even these days if your white (although I speak from experience it is possible) as the subject in hand shows. Not sure what your point is. Surely the point about racial equality is that your skin colour is not significant. If you try to make it significant it is not in the spirit of equality. It's not 'rightly or wrongly', it's just wrongly, there is no good reason for you to have a chip on your shoulder in this day and age, in this country. In fact people should be proud to live in a nation which is far more racially tolerant than most. It's like that rubbish Chris Powell (as much as I like the guy) was talking. About how there aren't enough black managers in football. It's irrelevant what skin colour they are, either they're good enough or they aren't. I don't care how many black managers there are, I don't care how many white or Asian managers there are. To me this attitude creates an issue where there doesn't need to be one.
breadandcheese Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 "Serbian FA deny any forms of racism against England Under 21s" "Serbian FA also accuse Danny Rose of behaving in an "inappropriate, unsportsmanlike and vulgar manner" towards their fans" From the SSN Twitter. This is astonishing. There is video footage from within the ground where you can hear Serbian fans making monkey chants.
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Don't see much "Jew Pride" and they have had it worse than anyone through history. You Kidding? They were given their own F**King Country! EDIT: And Army, Bit more than simple pride!!
purpleronnie Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Good job Nelson Mandella didn't think like that. He realised that his job wasn't to revenge the africaans but to integrate the black and white societies to make south africa a stronger nation. Comparing the MOBO'S with apartheid. MMMM ok.
Guest MattP Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 You Kidding? They were given their own F**King Country! EDIT: And Army, Bit more than simple pride!! Yeah look at the bastards we gave them for neighbours though.
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Not sure what your point is. Surely the point about racial equality is that your skin colour is not significant. If you try to make it significant it is not in the spirit of equality. It's not 'rightly or wrongly', it's just wrongly, there is no good reason for you to have a chip on your shoulder in this day and age, in this country. In fact people should be proud to live in a nation which is far more racially tolerant than most. It's like that rubbish Chris Powell (as much as I like the guy) was talking. About how there aren't enough black managers in football. It's irrelevant what skin colour they are, either they're good enough or they aren't. I don't care how many black managers there are, I don't care how many white or Asian managers there are. To me this attitude creates an issue where there doesn't need to be one. Yeah thats where your whole arguement falls down mate. There are nearly 70 million people in this country and not all of them think like you, and there are still more than enough that view Black and Asian pepole as inferior. This country is not a shining beacon of equality you think it is, better than most perhaps but far far from perfect.
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Yeah look at the bastards we gave them for neighbours though. We border Wales what could be worse than that
Kitchandro Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Yeah thats where your whole arguement falls down mate. There are nearly 70 million people in this country and not all of them think like you, and there are still more than enough that view Black and Asian pepole as inferior. This country is not a shining beacon of equality you think it is, better than most perhaps but far far from perfect. Well, it is my opinion, it's got nothing to do with 70 million others. But that's the point, you can't start tarring eveyone with the same brush. So what are you saying, that there aren't many black managers in football because most people who run clubs are racists? What if I were to tell you some black people are racist? Or is that OK because they were opressed at one time?
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Well, it is my opinion, it's got nothing to do with 70 million others. But that's the point, you can't start tarring eveyone with the same brush. So what are you saying, that there aren't many black managers in football because most people who run clubs are racists? What if I were to tell you some black people are racist? Or is that OK because they were opressed at one time? Oh dear your losing it a bit again. You are now bending A) My words and B) The arguement in a direction to suit yourself and get away from the orginal point. What are you on about, of course it does, your making a point about society and don't think the opnions of the other 69,999,999 people in the country matter as you think one way . I am not tarring anyone with the same brush, I am saying are still problems in the country more so towards those of Black and Asain decent than others, and this is why they like to display a bit of pride on a occasion as there are still those out there that think they should feel inferior, this is there way of showing they are not. I certainly prefer them doing that than the UAF turning up to fight the EDL every time they have a demo. I didn't address the point of managers as I don't really have an opinion on it, It's a very odd statistic though and it's a either a massive coinsidence or there is something behind it, I don't really know which. Not quite sure if your trolling or just stupid with this one, I know that better than you ever will pal, it is obviously not ok, society naturally protects white people due to demographics and history and there is much much more discrimination directed at the black community than the white there is still a problem.
yorkie1999 Posted 17 October 2012 Posted 17 October 2012 Comparing the MOBO'S with apartheid. MMMM ok. I'm not comparing them, I'm responding to your 100s of years of oppression comment. Mmmm ok
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