Hull post match waffle

[Captain...]

Don't even have to bring the top clubs in the Premiership into the suggestion. Compare us with teams in our division, teams who have got promoted in the past, they all played with that defensive solidness in midfield along with attacking flare especially Southampton last season.

Schneiderlin, Cork, Hammond sat and did the defensive, all round and dirty work, while Lallana and Guly added the attacking presence and flare, same with Reading by having Leigertwood be the defensive presence, who also got forward, while they had pace on the wings with McAnuff and Kebe, and West Ham were similar with Nolan and Noble all round solid displays which were too good for the League, supplied the likes of Baldock, Vaz Te and Cole with the goals.

But we don't have a big problem defensively, we don't concede many goals, and we normally only allow the opposition a handful of chances, see the Cardiff game where they only had 3 shots, ironically today when we went for a shored up midfield and actually conceded a lot more chances and clear cut chances at that than we did against Cardiff. The difference was Kasper saved them or they put them wide, or one was cleared off the line.

We restrict chances by defending as a team and winning the ball back high up the pitch, we concede chances mainly due to defensive errors and giving the ball away cheaply, there is no one culprit in that that can just be replaced, it is visible throughout the team at times some of our players just switch off.

We don't need a defensive midfielder, or a more defensive formation, or any great changes, we just need to stop making stupid mistakes, king and drinkwater were both noticeably guilty of this today, from the radio, and off the top of my head Kasper, konch, rdl, Schlupp, Whitbread have all made individual errors that have cost up goals this season, and knocky Dyer and Marshall like drinkwater and king are also guilty at times of just throwing away possession in good positions and putting up under pressure.

If we hadn't made so many stupid errors this season. Including glaring misses from the forwards, we would be top.

If it was positional errors or tactical errors then they could be rectified, but it is not it is just players taking it in turns fvcking up and I don't know how you can fix that.

[5waller5]

But we don't have a big problem defensively, we don't concede many goals, and we normally only allow the opposition a handful of chances, see the Cardiff game where they only had 3 shots, ironically today when we went for a shored up midfield and actually conceded a lot more chances and clear cut chances at that than we did against Cardiff. The difference was Kasper saved them or they put them wide, or one was cleared off the line.

We restrict chances by defending as a team and winning the ball back high up the pitch, we concede chances mainly due to defensive errors and giving the ball away cheaply, there is no one culprit in that that can just be replaced, it is visible throughout the team at times some of our players just switch off.

We don't need a defensive midfielder, or a more defensive formation, or any great changes, we just need to stop making stupid mistakes, king and drinkwater were both noticeably guilty of this today, from the radio, and off the top of my head Kasper, konch, rdl, Schlupp, Whitbread have all made individual errors that have cost up goals this season, and knocky Dyer and Marshall like drinkwater and king are also guilty at times of just throwing away possession in good positions and putting up under pressure.

If we hadn't made so many stupid errors this season. Including glaring misses from the forwards, we would be top.

If it was positional errors or tactical errors then they could be rectified, but it is not it is just players taking it in turns fvcking up and I don't know how you can fix that.

It's often when people start looking for the leader on the pitch - the guy that stops people turning off or spots them doing it and gets into them before they make the mistake. I wouldn't have thought we lacked leaders ..... not a possibility I'd considered until reading your post.

[kingfox]

But we don't have a big problem defensively, we don't concede many goals, and we normally only allow the opposition a handful of chances, see the Cardiff game where they only had 3 shots, ironically today when we went for a shored up midfield and actually conceded a lot more chances and clear cut chances at that than we did against Cardiff. The difference was Kasper saved them or they put them wide, or one was cleared off the line.

We restrict chances by defending as a team and winning the ball back high up the pitch, we concede chances mainly due to defensive errors and giving the ball away cheaply, there is no one culprit in that that can just be replaced, it is visible throughout the team at times some of our players just switch off.

We don't need a defensive midfielder, or a more defensive formation, or any great changes, we just need to stop making stupid mistakes, king and drinkwater were both noticeably guilty of this today, from the radio, and off the top of my head Kasper, konch, rdl, Schlupp, Whitbread have all made individual errors that have cost up goals this season, and knocky Dyer and Marshall like drinkwater and king are also guilty at times of just throwing away possession in good positions and putting up under pressure.

If we hadn't made so many stupid errors this season. Including glaring misses from the forwards, we would be top.

If it was positional errors or tactical errors then they could be rectified, but it is not it is just players taking it in turns fvcking up and I don't know how you can fix that.

I believe you need certain things for promotion, especially automatic promotion.

But CBA to wizz through it so if you don't agree, i'm cool with that mate

Nice KingFox tonight.

[Captain...]

It's often when people start looking for the leader on the pitch - the guy that stops people turning off or spots them doing it and gets into them before they make the mistake. I wouldn't have thought we lacked leaders ..... not a possibility I'd considered until reading your post.

It is something I've said before, Morgan is clearly the best candidate to be captain, but I don't see him shouting at others often or geeing them up, Kasper is normally the most vocal.

Konch is obviously experienced, but to be honest he is more likely than not to be the one to fvck it up on the pitch, Whitbread has taken a while to settle, and Nugent has many qualities, but he is not a leader in that sense, likewise Dyer.

The rest of the squad are pretty young and need guidance from the more experienced players.

[5waller5]

It is something I've said before, Morgan is clearly the best candidate to be captain, but I don't see him shouting at others often or geeing them up, Kasper is normally the most vocal.

Konch is obviously experienced, but to be honest he is more likely than not to be the one to fvck it up on the pitch, Whitbread has taken a while to settle, and Nugent has many qualities, but he is not a leader in that sense, likewise Dyer.

The rest of the squad are pretty young and need guidance from the more experienced players.

Yeah I'd not thought of that, good shout.

Was DD Burnley's capt??

Another reason to get a tough and experienced midfielder in (not Wellens)!

[Captain...]

Yeah I'd not thought of that, good shout.

Was DD Burnley's capt??

Another reason to get a tough and experienced midfielder in (not Wellens)!

I wouldn't argue with an experienced leader in the middle, I just don't agree that we need a specialist defensive mid, defensively we've been sound never conceded more than 2 in a match, we have one of the best defensive records in the league.

[ADK]

I honestly think the source of practically all our problems in matches is giving the ball away high up the field. The opposition then hit us on the break and get a chance to hit us before we have recovered our shape. Our only midfield problems is when we are playing a 4-4-2 against a team with a capable 3 in centre-mid and our two are given too much work. I'd be happy for us to play more 4-5-1 and work our openings rather than attempting wishful passes and flicks that give their team a chance to counter immediately. It also discourages players from going up and attacking as they are half expecting to have to leg it back to their own end every time.

[Captain...]

I honestly think the source of practically all our problems in matches is giving the ball away.

I think it is just giving the ball away full stop.

So many goals and chances we have conceded started with us making a basic mistake making a simple pass, I don't mind so much when a through ball or a whipped in low cross gives away possession, but what we were doing well in our unbeaten run was keeping the ball and really making the opposition work for their openings.

For some inexplicable reason we tend to switch off in games and fail to make a simple pass when under no pressure.

[_Fatboyslow_]

I posted the other day and can't recollect I got any responses?

It strikes me the top teams very often play their 'holding midfielder(s)':

Man City had DeJong and now have Javi Garcia/Rodwell and Barry.

Man Utd have Carrick.

Barcelona have Mascherano and Busquets.

Chelsea have Obi Mikel and had Essien (now doing the same role at Real Madrid.

Inter have Cambiasso

AC Milan had Gattuso and Pirlo.

What these players do/did was to win the ball, keep it, slow play down and sit in front of the back four to cover it with another layer of defence.

Perhaps more importantly, they give/gave the more attack minded, flair players in their respective teams, the time, the space and the freedom to do damage in the opposition half.

Silva and Nasri, knowing they don't really have a 'defensive duty' in the Man City team, are free to stay forward and to roam.

Hazard, Mata and Oscar... Don't need to get back to cover. Obi Mikel does that job.

Etc.....

Of course, we aren't in the same ball-park at these teams. But their formation, based upon 'defenders defending' and 'attackers attacking' seems to bear fruit and has been replicated time and again.

If we have attack minded players who know their role in the side is not to defend, they might start attacking more and this cry for 'flair' in the side may be satisfied.

Personally I think the squad has flair. It's the lack of the 'defensive midfield men' that thwarts it. This has been my opinion for some time now and remains so.

For the 'big clubs' flair is underpinned by solidity. I don't know why it can't be for City. The 'goals scored' section could increase radically if 'the goalscorers' were on the pitch to just do that.

At last you have seen the light, short runs and passes, give others time to find space and ideally someone who will give others a wake up call

[Stevie Synex]

I honestly think the source of practically all our problems in matches is giving the ball away high up the field. The opposition then hit us on the break and get a chance to hit us before we have recovered our shape. Our only midfield problems is when we are playing a 4-4-2 against a team with a capable 3 in centre-mid and our two are given too much work. I'd be happy for us to play more 4-5-1 and work our openings rather than attempting wishful passes and flicks that give their team a chance to counter immediately. It also discourages players from going up and attacking as they are half expecting to have to leg it back to their own end every time.

Agree with this post - spot on mate

[Col city fan]

At last you have seen the light, short runs and passes, give others time to find space and ideally someone who will give others a wake up call

to be honest mate... 'who the fookin Hell are you'......

i've been saying this all season.... we need to cover the defence to give the attacking players the license to get forward more AND to stop conceding the goals we've conceded from the edge of our area.

[dedlock]

Many of our problems ,particularly recently,have come from giving the ball away in the opposition half and failing to respond..DD and Kingy are good shielding midfielders,James is similar.They are also box to box.King does good defensive work.He is most dangerous arriving late in the box from deep.Yesterday,when that occured it wasDD not King. We tried putting 'square pegs' into a' round' attacking midfield role at Watford,matching the oppositions system and it failed.Yesterday we got away with it.

If we manage to be promoted we will have to play 4-2-3-1or a similar system .Presently we do not have the personnel.King is not effective in the advanced role.

Can Knocky,Marshall or Gally be the playmaker? To qualify one will need not only to create but also to harry and chase possession when lost in the opposition half.

Even if we play a similar system against Burnley I doubt the conundrum will be solved.It may be one for the summer when our budget is clear

[theessexfox]

From our perspective I'm pretty happy with a point. I would have hoped for 4pts over Christmas but wouldn't be disappointed with 2pts. A home fixture against Leeds beckons on the 29th. You certainly have a well drilled team there with a modicum of flair. A good base on which to build from.

I've added a link to one of our match reports. It's as well balanced as you can hope to get from a (Hull) City site. As you'd expect there's plenty of words given over to discussing the merits of a certain Nigel Pearson.

http://www.ambernect...er-0/#more-9921

A good read, although referring to you as City is a bit confusing for us!

[Corky]

That was a really good report- no bitterness and an honest appraisal of our manager.

I'd agree with it.

[marbelladave]

But we don't have a big problem defensively, we don't concede many goals, and we normally only allow the opposition a handful of chances, see the Cardiff game where they only had 3 shots, ironically today when we went for a shored up midfield and actually conceded a lot more chances and clear cut chances at ...................................

..............................errors then they could be rectified, but it is not it is just players taking it in turns fvcking up and I don't know how you can fix that.

Very nice post mon capitaine, to the point and pretty accurate.

To my mind we are simply too cautious, as you point out an extra midfielder seems to make things worse in that it limits our options further forward and concedes the momentum to the opposition. King scores goals but is not a creative player in any real sense, playing him as our attacking midfielder is pointless, it deprives us of an opportunity to play a real playmaker in that position.

Our current run of poor form is I believe caused by our attempts to play a little more conservatively and be more solid. We seem obsessed with weaknesses in our defence so we are not releasing our fullbacks to get forward as we did earlier in the season and our wide players are required to stay wide and maintain our shape, the result is that our front men get isolated and all they see are long balls pumped up to them. The pact, attacking runs of De Laet, Dyer, Schlupp etc have all been sacrificed for defensive pragmatism that is not even effective.

Many of our problems ,particularly recently,have come from giving the ball away in the opposition half and failing to respond..DD and Kingy are good shielding midfielders,James is similar.They are also box to box.King does good defensive work.He is most dangerous arriving late in the box from deep.Yesterday,when that occured it wasDD not King. We tried putting 'square pegs' into a' round' attacking midfield role at Watford,matching the oppositions system and it failed.Yesterday we got away with it.

If we manage to be promoted we will have to play 4-2-3-1or a similar system .Presently we do not have the personnel.King is not effective in the advanced role.

Can Knocky,Marshall or Gally be the playmaker? To qualify one will need not only to create but also to harry and chase possession when lost in the opposition half.

Even if we play a similar system against Burnley I doubt the conundrum will be solved.It may be one for the summer when our budget is clear

As both of you point out, we are losing goals to individual errors, sometimes this is because our player in possession has no passing options available, ie no one 'showing' as described above and sometimes it is down to a lack of defensive organisation, we make a mistake and it is a goal scoring chance, the opposition do the same and the covering defender clears up the mess.

Also, I am sure that we have the players to play 4-2-3-1, but I am not sure that we are prepared to make the changes and pick the players to make it work.

[dedlock]

It may seem a contradiction,but our central midfielders.and strikers are too similar We have the players to play 4-2-3-1 but not at its most effective.

I agree NP may not be prepared to make the change to make it work. At Watford it was a timid attempt to match up rather than a whole hearted adoption of the system

I was not at Hull but the commentary(for what its worth) and comments from those there suggest that we attempted a conservative adaptation rather than allow a playmaker with freedom and responsibility as an early line of defence.

King is a good player but not in that role.

Square pegs in round holes won't do!

[Maybes]

How many did we take?

[Daz Woolley]

Some clueless muppets around today.

Since when has a point /away/ to the side second in the table not good enough?

It's the very definition of 'good enough'. It's the text book, 'good' but not 'great' result.

Millwall was by all accounts a poor performance, today we played Hull, not Millwall - You've got the wrong post-match thread.

People returning from game today seem to be of the consensus that it was a point won & pretty far from 2pts lost.

Deary me.

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

[Guest ttfn]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

Blimey.

[Webbo]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

[El C.Effsi]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

a kid who hasnt grown up yet..his address is Neverneverland I think..good luck tracking him down Jason Bourne...or are you Neo?..he was also a keyboard warrior.

[Bilo]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

[Ashley]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

You complete and utter crumpet.

[Corky]

Tell ya what you call me a ****ing Muppet on here pal and ill track ya down you arsehole , see you cant even spell - a village idiot no doubt or a kid who hasnt grown up yet

see you have a lot to say on this site and spend a lot of time on here you sad arsehole - get a life knob head !!!!

It's taken you nearly a week to find his post.

He'll have plenty of time to run away/hide/emigrate at that rate.

[Munshi]

lol