A lack of strength in depth?

[Fox92]

I made the point at the start of the season that I wasn't sure we had enough quality in the squad.

The first team is pretty good and Chris Wood appears to have been one of the signings we needed.

However, the cup games have shown that when we rely upon the likes of Gally, Wellens and Futacs, we struggle.

We are now third... So Pearson has done excellently in the league... But I remain concerned that we don't have enough strength in depth to gain automatic promotion.

Do we need to strengthen in the loan window? Or do people still believe we have enough good players to gain top two.

This isn't knee-jerk after tonight's result, it's a genuine question.

Personally, I still feel we need another midfielder and I don't believe the 'reserve strikers' are good enough.

Opinions please...

I'll reiterate something I've said for the past four months, we could do with some cover at left full back. Also, apart from Nugent and Wood, I don't really have confidence in any of our other strikers. So maybe could get a decent striker in as well.

Every manager talks about our great strength in depth, but take a look at other clubs, they all seem to have a bigger squad than us. (This isn't a dig or anything, I like what Nige has done, I have always been a massive fan of his).

[Babylon]

Arrrrgh... just spent 5 minutes copy other teams benches from their last games and lost the post. Honestly you could just about cobble one decent bench together from the lot of them.

[kingfox]

Dyer and Marshall are too inconsistent.

Vardy and Futacs haven't showed us anything for months

Waghorn also hit and miss

Gallagher and Wellens are past it

It's the fact that we have to rely on these players, which is the most depressing thought, like I've mentioned in the past one game sticks out to me was the 2-1 defeat to Watford earlier in the season, we had a bench consisting of Danns, Dyer, Gallagher, Waghorn, Schlupp and Futacs, how many of them can really change a game, in my opinion none. However Watford had Matej Vydra on the bench that day, who happened to be there top scorer at the time, and is capable of scoring from the bench and changing games, we were so rubbish that day, they only needed him for about 10 minutes.

It's the strikers which is the most worrying part, we have to rely on Vardy, Waghorn and Futacs, to come off the bench and do a job for us and hopefully grab us a goal; however so far this season that has hardly been the case with these three players.

We played Wolves a couple of weeks back, and they had Kevin Doyle on the bench, and Cassidy who was top scorer in League 1 until he returned to Wolves, yet again we had Vardy, Waghorn and Futacs on the bench, luckily we won that game, but I'd rather have Doyle and Cassidy on my bench, instead of our trio.

In recent weeks due to injuries to our defenders, we have had to put Gallagher and Wellens on the bench, along with two/three of those strikers.

They are just not good enough.

A bench like - Logan, St Ledger/Whitbread, Moore, King, Dyer/Marshall, Waghorn would look decent enough, but that is only six, as it's more than likely Vardy or Futacs will also be on the bench, or even both together as Pearson doesn't often put two defenders on the bench.

Therefore we need to get rid of some of these on loan, and get in a better winger and a better striker, to replace these inconsistent or useless players.

[hackneyfox]

If Dyer, Vardy & Waghorn hadn't been part of a team that has been in the top six all season we may have been top 2 all season.

[Suffolk_fox]

My father went to the P'boro game with me, and he showed me a section in their matchday programme where the two squads are listed side by side. P'boro had TWELVE players more than us.

I don't think we have the numbers, and I definitely don't think we have the quality in our fringe squad. Waghorn has been well below par for too long now, and that miss in the dying moments on Saturday could have been buried by Bernie! Futacs is another example of the gap between our first choice (Wood, Nuge) and our fringe players.

Vardy is too lightweight, and his body language showed that his confidence is shot to pieces.

We need to get someone in on loan and ship out Vardy, Waggy, and Futacs.

[Babylon]

My father went to the P'boro game with me, and he showed me a section in their matchday programme where the two squads are listed side by side. P'boro had TWELVE players more than us.

I don't think we have the numbers, and I definitely don't think we have the quality in our fringe squad. Waghorn has been well below par for too long now, and that miss in the dying moments on Saturday could have been buried by Bernie! Futacs is another example of the gap between our first choice (Wood, Nuge) and our fringe players.

Vardy is too lightweight, and his body language showed that his confidence is shot to pieces.

We need to get someone in on loan and ship out Vardy, Waggy, and Futacs.

And Peterborough probably list every tom, dick harry and child on their books.

[cc_star]

My father went to the P'boro game with me, and he showed me a section in their matchday programme where the two squads are listed side by side. P'boro had TWELVE players more than us.

I don't think we have the numbers,

That settles it. Even with FFP we could probably sign all of those 12 players.

Lets get them in & follow Peterborough's recipe of success and maybe one day we can be as good as them... win 2 games against the top 2 and lose to everyone else.

What we need to do is redouble our efforts, play with desire, press in the opposition half, compete for 2nd balls, break with pace and play the lovely stuff that rips teams apart and has lead to every opponent label us as the best team in the league despite being second.

I think we could benefit from loan signings at some point, perhaps we'll have one in before too much longer. I have no clue about this loan window & the terms of the lengths of the loans, but many teams leave it until near the end so that the players can play all the way through to playoff final if need be.

[Libertine Dream]

My father went to the P'boro game with me, and he showed me a section in their matchday programme where the two squads are listed side by side. P'boro had TWELVE players more than us.

I don't think we have the numbers, and I definitely don't think we have the quality in our fringe squad. Waghorn has been well below par for too long now, and that miss in the dying moments on Saturday could have been buried by Bernie! Futacs is another example of the gap between our first choice (Wood, Nuge) and our fringe players.

Vardy is too lightweight, and his body language showed that his confidence is shot to pieces.

We need to get someone in on loan and ship out Vardy, Waggy, and Futacs.

So the solution is to move out 3 strikers and sign a couple on loan because Posh have 12 more players lists than us. The fact is that those 3 are more than likely better than those 12 players. Why don't we fill the squad with Michael Ball and Michael Johnson again just so we have a few more on the back of the programme.

This lack of depth thing is getting boring now

[JonnyBoy]

its so fustrating how much we need atleast 1 loan striker as the others do not cut it at this level and this has been proven. A winger would be good too.

'In an ideal world, 3 loanees who are sitting on the bench at prem level atm who could impact massively in the championship,

[Corky]

And Peterborough probably list every tom, dick harry and child on their books.

I think Adrian Durham and the mascot Peter Burrow were listed.

[Col city fan]

So the solution is to move out 3 strikers and sign a couple on loan because Posh have 12 more players lists than us. The fact is that those 3 are more than likely better than those 12 players. Why don't we fill the squad with Michael Ball and Michael Johnson again just so we have a few more on the back of the programme.

This lack of depth thing is getting boring now

You won't be bored if it proves to be our downfall, you'll be pissed off..lets hope that's not the case.

And why are people getting confused with 'lack of strength in depth' and lack of 'quality strength in depth'? We could have a hundred players at the club, but if few are of sufficient quality it would make no difference. It's the lack of 'quality' in depth that I'm questioning?

[Libertine Dream]

You won't be bored if it proves to be our downfall, you'll be pissed off..lets hope that's not the case.

And why are people getting confused with 'lack of strength in depth' and lack of 'quality strength in depth'? We could have a hundred players at the club, but if few are of sufficient quality it would make no difference. It's the lack of 'quality' in depth that I'm questioning?

Will I be able to pinpoint that it was our downfall? I'd prefer it if we had an extra central midfielder possibly even a striker come winger but Im not overly concerned and I expect we'll utilise the loan market at some point.

We've done alright for ourselves without a 'proper defensive midfielder', haven't we?

[Col city fan]

Will I be able to pinpoint that it was our downfall? I'd prefer it if we had an extra central midfielder possibly even a striker come winger but Im not overly concerned and I expect we'll utilise the loan market at some point.

We've done alright for ourselves without a 'proper defensive midfielder', haven't we?

Not too well away from home no..

Look at the stats this season.

[Libertine Dream]

Granted the away form hasn't been great but I wouldn't put that down to a lack of a DM more the way we go about the game away from home and the lack of goals

[cc_star]

You won't be bored if it proves to be our downfall, you'll be pissed off..lets hope that's not the case.

And why are people getting confused with 'lack of strength in depth' and lack of 'quality strength in depth'? We could have a hundred players at the club, but if few are of sufficient quality it would make no difference. It's the lack of 'quality' in depth that I'm questioning?

Our benches are among the best in the league as mentioned.

Whitbread, SSL, Dyer, Waghorn etc would start for many teams in this league

If we signed even more quality we'd have them moaning about not playing - causing a downturn. or they'd displace members of the 'first 11' who would moan about not playing - causing a downturn.

Whilst you say is 'sound' there are flaws if it's carried through, we're not ManUtd where people are happy just to be at the club regardless of the fact they could walk into 95% of other people's first teams, we're also not in the Premiership... something else that keeps benchwarmers happy.

We're where we are.

Personally I think our room for improvement can come from different formations to change games but we know where the manager stands on that

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch (although I'd pick Schlupp)

Marshall - Drinkwater - Dyer

Knockaert - Wood - Nugent

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch

King - Drinkwater

Marshall - Knockaert - Dyer

Nugent

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch

Marshall - King - Drinkwater - Dyer

Knockaert

Nugent

433, 4231, 4411... All have more flexibility to 'rotate' players in than a 442.

Take Gallagher for example in the 4411, he or Marshall can play off the front man, both of them along with Dyer can play either wing, in the 4231 he could play in any of the attacking midfield '3' and in the 433 he could play as either of the two outside forwards.

James could slot in replacing King or Drink as & when... there's greater numbers in the middle in those formations for more support.

Vardy, whilst not flavour of the month does have good link-up play brings mids or widemen into the game and again could play in the hole off Nuge or Wood in a 4411, he could also play better as the wide left forward in a 433 than he has been in a 442

And so on.

For me, it's not about personnel at all - it's about attitude not to lose, to keep pressing in opposition half to restrict opposition chances & having tempo to attacks to win. The players didn't have it at Posh & they certainly didn't have it last night. This doesn't mean everything that has gone before which saw us rise to second is thrown out the window.

I'd just like to see more from NP when things don't work, bringing on Dyer for a tired Marshall or Gallagher for a wondering Knockaert has no effect when the game's pattern is set, things need to change to change the pattern eg. changing the formation from time to time to suit the opposition (EVEN ManUtd do this and they're currently equalling Chelsea's record 2005 PL points total of 2.5pts/game) but I'd like to see us pack the midfield in a 451 when they're being ran through like Wolves second half, or playing 4231 and looking to counter better with 5 attacking players... or whatever. I just firmly believe it's not personnel it a)teams attitude b) manager's flexibility or lackthereof. This isn't a criticism directly of NP, his 442 has seen us get automatic promotion in our own hands whereby we are in control of whether we are promoted or not... there's only us & Cardiff who can say that, some achievement from midtable mediocrity since he was last here and the best part of a decade before that.

If anything, last night showed how key Drinkwater is in driving the team forward... his ability to close down and be on the edge of our box one minute and driving forward across the halfway line the next.

[Col city fan]

Our benches are among the best in the league as mentioned.

Whitbread, SSL, Dyer, Waghorn etc would start for many teams in this league

If we signed even more quality we'd have them moaning about not playing - causing a downturn. or they'd displace members of the 'first 11' who would moan about not playing - causing a downturn.

Whilst you say is 'sound' there are flaws if it's carried through, we're not ManUtd where people are happy just to be at the club regardless of the fact they could walk into 95% of other people's first teams, we're also not in the Premiership... something else that keeps benchwarmers happy.

We're where we are.

Personally I think our room for improvement can come from different formations to change games but we know where the manager stands on that

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch (although I'd pick Schlupp)

Marshall - Drinkwater - Dyer

Knockaert - Wood - Nugent

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch

King - Drinkwater

Marshall - Knockaert - Dyer

Nugent

Schmeichel

RDL - Morgan - Keane - Konch

Marshall - King - Drinkwater - Dyer

Knockaert

Nugent

433, 4231, 4411... All have more flexibility to 'rotate' players in than a 442.

Take Gallagher for example in the 4411, he or Marshall can play off the front man, both of them along with Dyer can play either wing, in the 4231 he could play in any of the attacking midfield '3' and in the 433 he could play as either of the two outside forwards.

James could slot in replacing King or Drink as & when... there's greater numbers in the middle in those formations for more support.

Vardy, whilst not flavour of the month does have good link-up play brings mids or widemen into the game and again could play in the hole off Nuge or Wood in a 4411, he could also play better as the wide left forward in a 433 than he has been in a 442

And so on.

For me, it's not about personnel at all - it's about attitude not to lose, to keep pressing in opposition half to restrict opposition chances & having tempo to attacks to win. The players didn't have it at Posh & they certainly didn't have it last night. This doesn't mean everything that has gone before which saw us rise to second is thrown out the window.

I'd just like to see more from NP when things don't work, bringing on Dyer for a tired Marshall or Gallagher for a wondering Knockaert has no effect when the game's pattern is set, things need to change to change the pattern eg. changing the formation from time to time to suit the opposition (EVEN ManUtd do this and they're currently equalling Chelsea's record 2005 PL points total of 2.5pts/game) but I'd like to see us pack the midfield in a 451 when they're being ran through like Wolves second half, or playing 4231 and looking to counter better with 5 attacking players... or whatever. I just firmly believe it's not personnel it a)teams attitude b) manager's flexibility or lackthereof. This isn't a criticism directly of NP, his 442 has seen us get automatic promotion in our own hands whereby we are in control of whether we are promoted or not... there's only us & Cardiff who can say that, some achievement from midtable mediocrity since he was last here and the best part of a decade before that.

If anything, last night showed how key Drinkwater is in driving the team forward... his ability to close down and be on the edge of our box one minute and driving forward across the halfway line the next.

I agree with you on DD no doubt. I've said it a few times and will say it again, I think he's the future of our midfield for years to come.

I asked a question on here a few weeks ago though and didn't really get an answer. Is it not the managers job to 'manage' quality players who aren't getting as many starts as they may want? This may not be a major problem in the Championship because the likes of Lloyd, James and even King seem happy enough to rotate.

But what about if we go up? Then, the expectation will be that the squad needs to comprise players of a generally better overall standard. The likes of Wellens, Gally et al will be gone.

Football management is surely, to some extent, about telling some of your better players that they aren't playing this week, and managing the reaction. If we go up, Pearson will have to show that he can perform this aspect of the management function. Just because we may 'let down' certain talented players from time to time, doesn't mean we shouldn't have them at our football club, indeed at any club. Effective management of them then becomes the order of the day.

Not too many though, I would concur. But personally I can only see that getting in another couple of good quality loanees would only strengthen competition for places.

[Essington blue]

The thread title is wrong!!! NO STRENGTH IN DEPTH is correct!!!

[shearfox]

The thread title is wrong!!! NO STRENGTH IN DEPTH is correct!!!

I don't know many teams that can call on better players than what we can in this league.

[MGLCFC]

I don't know many teams that can call on better players than what we can in this league.

That may be the case, but how often do our attacking and midfield subs make a difference when they come on ok they may only get 10 to 15 minutes - I just don't feel that they could step up to what is needed if we are to gain automatic promotion should they have to make the starting line up.

[Happy Fox]

We need better back up players it is clear for all to see but it is a question of funds and offloading our deadwood which is the problem I imagine.

[WhenYourSmilingLCFC]

Ross Barkley just returned back to Everton from his loan at Leeds. Gotta be worth a loan til end of season.

[Libertine Dream]

Ross Barkley just returned back to Everton from his loan at Leeds. Gotta be worth a loan til end of season.

Now that would be a good quality signing and could enable us to play different formations