FFP and EPPP - the death of football?

[bluesbrothers]

As much as I'm for FFP, its going to make it much harder for clubs nobody likes to go under a la Rangers. Here's hoping Forest blow the lot in the next few months.

[Dan]

FFP I can understand, but EPPP is nothing short of a disgrace and the two combined, I hate to say it, you might be right.

I think clubs spending within their means isn't a bad thing and we've got such a habit in this country of not doing it because we're all so desperate for immediate success, but when you start fixing prices for the best youngsters, you seriously have to question what they're playing at.

I thought FFP would make clubs spend more wisely at all levels but EPPP pretty much guarantees the best deals for the big clubs, so the big clubs save a little bit of money, yet that little bit they save would be massive to a lower league club who's worked for years on this certain player.

I wouldn't blame any club for fvcking its academy off, they simply won't fund themselves, it's a great shame and it just shows the nations obsession with the Premier League and how it's the be all and end all.

The mentality in this country is fvcking appalling and I cannot believe anyone would defend the EPPP. It's about on par with that 39th game in America as an idea for me, cannot believe they're actually going through with it - yeh we as a club might be alright, but that doesn't make it right at all, it's like being happy with them scrapping relegation from the Premier League should we be in there when that came into plan.

Agree with the OP. FFP isn't a bad idea IMO, but combined with EPPP (which is woeful) it's a complete disaster and you can expect our lower leagues to turn as shit as the rest of Europe - one of the few things we have over them.

[MooseBreath]

A few lower league academies have already shut up shop I believe. Many more will follow. We might end up with just a handful of super-academies ran by the top few clubs. Certainly the way it looks at the moment the likes of Leicester, anyone like us and anyone below us might as well not bother having one.

[Carl the Llama]

What is dead may never die.

[leicsmac]

Neil Arksey's book Playing On The Edge seems to be becoming more and more prophetic.

[Dan]

I personally think FFP isn't that unfair. Is it really unfair for clubs to spend within their means, or is it unfair for clubs to have some tycoon who couldn't give a shit about the club use it as a toy and splash millions left right & centre?

I think the emphasis on money will keep the game unfair forever really. Money's ruined it and there's no turning back, ever.

A few lower league academies have already shut up shop I believe. Many more will follow. We might end up with just a handful of super-academies ran by the top few clubs. Certainly the way it looks at the moment the likes of Leicester, anyone like us and anyone below us might as well not bother having one.

And England will still be shit.

[cc_star]

Southampton owner speaking out against FFP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21712482

Whilst I think the Prem's rules are different to the Football League, it should be obvious to anyone FFP little more than a way of keeping all the money among the clubs who already have money & will prevent mobility of clubs and ability for new clubs to challenge for honours.

On the flipside it may have prevented us being saddled with £100m of debt of a still unknown impact to move up a grand total of ZERO league places.

[Guest BlueBrett]

FPP and EPPP are both terrible ideas and I'm amazed there hasn't been more opposition to them

[Foxes_Trust]

Southampton owner speaking out against FFP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21712482

Whilst I think the Prem's rules are different to the Football League, it should be obvious to anyone FFP little more than a way of keeping all the money among the clubs who already have money & will prevent mobility of clubs and ability for new clubs to challenge for honours.

On the flipside it may have prevented us being saddled with £100m of debt of a still unknown impact to move up a grand total of ZERO league places.

FFP was introduced first in Leagues 1 & 2 in terms of % of wages to turnover, sole purpose to stop clubs overspending and going to the wall, so the complete opposite to what you have stated above.

FFP is being introduced into the top tier last, however the top clubs have already been targeted by separate rules for European football, which will exclude clubs from competing if certain criteria is not met.

In terms of listening to those running Southampton, 2 points

a) Track record of wasting money on getting rid of managers who have done well for them. Pearson, when he came to us the first time & now Adkins this season, so you would certainly question their judgement

b) However if their wage ratio is currently 59%, they are on the right track financially, its' the clubs who spend more on wages than turnover received that need to amend their ways

[Foxes_Trust]

FPP and EPPP are both terrible ideas and I'm amazed there hasn't been more opposition to them

FPP - how many more clubs do you want to go into financial difficulty before realising controls have to be put in place ?

EPPP - agreed on that one

[Guest BlueBrett]

FPP - how many more clubs do you want to go into financial difficulty before realising controls have to be put in place ?

EPPP - agreed on that one

I'd rather see a wage cap than a policy that will undeniably serve to reinforce the status quo. I just don't buy the argument that a wage cap would lead to a talent drain and even if it did does anybody actually care as long as the leagues are still competitive and entertaining?

[Kitchandro]

I'd rather see a wage cap than a policy that will undeniably serve to reinforce the status quo. I just don't buy the argument that a wage cap would lead to a talent drain and even if it did does anybody actually care as long as the leagues are still competitive and entertaining?

No I wouldn't. A wage cap would be a great idea but it would be no good for the big boys or the FA so that's why we don't have it. It would be great for the league and fans as a whole.

[Vlad the Fox]

FPP - how many more clubs do you want to go into financial difficulty before realising controls have to be put in place ?

EPPP - agreed on that one

But is financial fair play the way to do? All i can see is the clubs who generate the most wealth benefiting and the days of a Wimbledon, Oxford, or Wigan getting into the premier league less and less likely.

How about tiered wage capping at a level most clubs in each respective divisions could afford. Max transfer fees and squad numbers. A focus on bringing through academy players and protection for the clubs developing this talent. All transfers to be done through salaried F.A appointed representatives therefore forcing agents and their manipulating of the transfer market and high cost out the game.

Maybe this would narrow the gap between the bigger and smaller clubs allowing a more even playing field and increased competition, particularly in whats becoming an increasingly dull premier league. I'm also aware that if such actions were put through the top clubs would threaten to form their super league, if so, let them go and play midweek matches to corporate crowds and tourists, given time they wont be missed.

[cc_star]

FFP was introduced first in Leagues 1 & 2 in terms of % of wages to turnover, sole purpose to stop clubs overspending and going to the wall, so the complete opposite to what you have stated above.

FFP is being introduced into the top tier last, however the top clubs have already been targeted by separate rules for European football, which will exclude clubs from competing if certain criteria is not met.

In terms of listening to those running Southampton, 2 points

a) Track record of wasting money on getting rid of managers who have done well for them. Pearson, when he came to us the first time & now Adkins this season, so you would certainly question their judgement

b) However if their wage ratio is currently 59%, they are on the right track financially, its' the clubs who spend more on wages than turnover received that need to amend their ways

Regardless of what it is for.... it has the very definite effect of preventing the mobility of clubs & therefore does retain all the big money among the clubs who already have the big money.

[Dan]

People can say all they like about it killing the chance of more Premier League winners and smaller clubs entering the top flight etc... but I'm sorry, I see no romance lost if it stops the likes of Chelsea/Man City winning the Premier and I see no positive of a club over-spending to get into it when they'll never sustain it like Portsmouth.

I think we're being OTT anyway - having money isn't the key to success. Dortmund absolutely slaughtered our league's Champions and their squad is majority youth players and cheap youngsters.

[MooseBreath]

People can say all they like about it killing the chance of more Premier League winners and smaller clubs entering the top flight etc... but I'm sorry, I see no romance lost if it stops the likes of Chelsea/Man City winning the Premier and I see no positive of a club over-spending to get into it when they'll never sustain it like Portsmouth.

I think we're being OTT anyway - having money isn't the key to success. Dortmund absolutely slaughtered our league's Champions and their squad is majority youth players and cheap youngsters.

Youth players and youngsters which the likes of Leicester won't be able to keep due to the eppp.

[cc_star]

People can say all they like about it killing the chance of more Premier League winners and smaller clubs entering the top flight etc... but I'm sorry, I see no romance lost if it stops the likes of Chelsea/Man City winning the Premier and I see no positive of a club over-spending to get into it when they'll never sustain it like Portsmouth.

I think we're being OTT anyway - having money isn't the key to success. Dortmund absolutely slaughtered our league's Champions and their squad is majority youth players and cheap youngsters.

It won't.

It will ensure ONLY ManUtd, Chelsea & ManCity can win the Premier League & nobody else will have the mobility to compete.

Nobody will be able to afford to compete... nobody will be able to get up there to have a chance of winning something which gives you the international fans to enable you to spend yet more money to be able challenge better.

The league is dead, it's worse than ever. The battle for 4th is the new championship and the actual championship doesn't matter any more... just like the FA Cup & League Cup don't matter.

Hell, even the Champions League barely matters.... That's all about the £50m bounty from qualifying for the knockout stage and that's what football has been reduced to - the knockout stage of the CL... or not. If you get there... you can afford to get there again, thus locking others out of the top 4

[Kitchandro]

I also suspect the fans will have to pay for all this lack of investment. Tickets will be more expensive in a desperate attempt te recoup more revenue and if you think the extent of advertising and the sky monopoly is bad now it's only going to get worse.

Tell me, if it's all about trying to stop teams spending beyond their means, are parachute payments being abolished? Because let's face it, all they do is encourage clubs to spend more in order to compete with the relegated clubs.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

There will be so many loop holes in the new FFP system that it will take them years to close. I still think the rule under sponsorship will be challenged in a court of law as to not be able to include naming rights if excessive amounts is surely a restraint of trade. It is a token gesture made by the Prem and Football League so when more and more clubs go into admin they can turn round and say "We tried to stop it."

The new academy system is a disgrace. It wouldn't be such a bad thing if the FA and Premier League had to spread the wealth to the lower divisions so they could focus on improving their youth infrastructure to help the teams in the long run. This of course will not happen as professional football at the top level is more business than sport. Seriously falling out of love for the game.

[ramadaone]

Think you are missing a few points with regard to EPPP

We are currently being assessed for bevel 1 so if things go according to play we will have as much power as Chelsea, Manure etc

If we remain at level 2 then yes we may lose some of our very best players for peanuts but how in practice will it all work - will a local lad really travel all the way to London for training and or games 3 times a week when they are still at school?

Lets say somehow all these kids do attend Chelsea's Academy then if they are getting the best coaching in the country isn't that what we want the best local lads to get?

Chelsea's academy would end up with hundreds of kids from all over the country and they simply can't sign all of them - therefore Chelsea do all the hard work and there are still plenty of top class "rejects" that will end up at places like LCFC

For the record I'm not a fan of EPPP but like most things if you look outside the box there are still some angles that we could exploit if we don't get Level 1 ourselves

[Finn Claw II]

I'd like to have some super star youth players first... I don't think we've produced someone capable of player for a top 4 club since Heskey (Let's see what happens with Schlupp). Ramadaone also has it spot on in terms of the top 4 clubs can't keep 100's of 16-18 year olds happy.

There is one league that is already well run in Europe - namely the German league - 5 different teams have won this in the last 10 years. Given the size of Munich relative to the others surely they should win the league ever year, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_football_champions

FFP may prevent another Chelsea or Man City but there are many big clubs that if run well could challenge - Liverpool, Arsenal spring to mind.

[davieG]

Football League clubs fear for future

[cc_star]

Football League clubs fear for future

Excellent article.

Highlights many problems over the hill. Despite the Premier League's record Sky/BT deal and deals from overseas rising by 600%+. It's a completely different story for the Football League with payments from the PL remaining relatively static. The new TV deal with Sky 26% down on the previous Sky/BBC deal... Sponsorship by npower due to be vacated with no replacement yet in sight & when they do it's not that lucrative anyway.

Not to mention declining ticket sales.

Sure we may be taking advantage of selling a couple of shirts in Thailand and some sponsorship deals with Singha & Air Asia but they're having to work twice as hard to combat the declines elsewhere, rather than it being pure extra revenues (which obviously affects maximum investments in the team)

The Premier League as a marketable product has been an enormous success, ridiculous in fact, but it only serves to make football more broken.

[cc_star]

Hearing a lot about how Reading is an attractive job even if they're relegated as the parachute payment goes up dramatically with the new TV deal.

£23m in year 1, £18m in year 2, sliding down to £9m in year 3 & 4

It's an immense income advantage which will massively distort competition in the Championship with everyone else operating with far, far less income and therefore unable to compete

However, the FL has had a summit and is looking at measures to reduce the impact of such large amounts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/20/football-league-parachute-payments

[Swiss_tony]

i don't quite get the hate fror ffp.

somebody keeps repeatedly saying it stops investment. no it doesn't. owners can invest 5 million next year, if that all goes to service debt well that's bad managment isn't it? if you break even on your income/outcome, the owners can invest, it's just limited that's all to prevent the club from being saddled with debt while the owner throws the dice at getting into the PL

what this will encourage is long term palnning at clubs.

manure didn't get where they are today by buying the league, they've got a 30+ year histroy of sound management.

the idea that nobody can challenge the status quo is bollocks. it will take time patience and a properly run football club.

no it won't be instant, but that's the whole point.

this will put an end to fly by night sugar daddies seeing a club as quick profit. it will stop leveraged buyouts.

the one big problem i see is that parachute money does not count, that gives relegated clubs a big advantage. but they could fix that once and for all by evening out the money distribution between pl and fl. the gap in free money you get for promotion is the problem.