MooseBreath Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 FFP will create deeply entrenched immobility as the clubs with the highest turnover will have the most money to spend, forever, and this will compound over a nunber of years to the point where the dream of a smaller club breaking into even the top half of the prem will be a distant memory. Each club will essentially have an alloted league position, a range of about five places, and they will finish in those places every season, forever. But FFP means clubs will have to invest more in youth and build from the bottom up? No. That's were EPPP comes in. This splits youth academies into tiers. The best academies - naturally - the biggest clubs, will have the pick of any player they want, they'll be able to take any of our academy for a fee based on a formula which renders the fee so small as to be irrelevant. You're talking £50k for our star youth player. So in summary, clubs like ours will no longer be able to receive investment to buy players. We will lose any good youth players for nothing. The bigger clubs will have mountains of cash to spend, and will be able to pick off any youth player they fancy. The end of football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 FFP will create deeply entrenched immobility as the clubs with the highest turnover will have the most money to spend, forever, and this will compound over a nunber of years to the point where the dream of a smaller club breaking into even the top half of the prem will be a distant memory. Each club will essentially have an alloted league position, a range of about five places, and they will finish in those places every season, forever. But FFP means clubs will have to invest more in youth and build from the bottom up? No. That's were EPPP comes in. This splits youth academies into tiers. The best academies - naturally - the biggest clubs, will have the pick of any player they want, they'll be able to take any of our academy for a fee based on a formula which renders the fee so small as to be irrelevant. You're talking £50k for our star youth player. So in summary, clubs like ours will no longer be able to receive investment to buy players. We will lose any good youth players for nothing. The bigger clubs will have mountains of cash to spend, and will be able to pick off any youth player they fancy. The end of football? A very good question. I was debating this with someone last night - it appears to rule out the possibility of a new force ever growing up in football. No more Blackburns, Man Citys, even Chelsea wouldn't be title contenders. As a result only two teams would have ever won the Premier League. Would a wage cap - and not one based on percentages of income - help to level the playing field out? Or perhaps a similar budget cap? I'm not sure what the solution is, but if something isn't done now, then the day will come when it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 FFP will create deeply entrenched immobility as the clubs with the highest turnover will have the most money to spend, forever, and this will compound over a nunber of years to the point where the dream of a smaller club breaking into even the top half of the prem will be a distant memory. Each club will essentially have an alloted league position, a range of about five places, and they will finish in those places every season, forever. But FFP means clubs will have to invest more in youth and build from the bottom up? No. That's were EPPP comes in. This splits youth academies into tiers. The best academies - naturally - the biggest clubs, will have the pick of any player they want, they'll be able to take any of our academy for a fee based on a formula which renders the fee so small as to be irrelevant. You're talking £50k for our star youth player. So in summary, clubs like ours will no longer be able to receive investment to buy players. We will lose any good youth players for nothing. The bigger clubs will have mountains of cash to spend, and will be able to pick off any youth player they fancy. The end of football? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 Surely if this were the case then no team below 5th in their league would have agreed to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 FFP will create deeply entrenched immobility as the clubs with the highest turnover will have the most money to spend, forever, and this will compound over a nunber of years to the point where the dream of a smaller club breaking into even the top half of the prem will be a distant memory. Each club will essentially have an alloted league position, a range of about five places, and they will finish in those places every season, forever. But FFP means clubs will have to invest more in youth and build from the bottom up? No. That's were EPPP comes in. This splits youth academies into tiers. The best academies - naturally - the biggest clubs, will have the pick of any player they want, they'll be able to take any of our academy for a fee based on a formula which renders the fee so small as to be irrelevant. You're talking £50k for our star youth player. So in summary, clubs like ours will no longer be able to receive investment to buy players. We will lose any good youth players for nothing. The bigger clubs will have mountains of cash to spend, and will be able to pick off any youth player they fancy. The end of football? Totally agree on both points. Both are just a way for the big boys to keep all the money among themselves. Helping themselves to the best young players for pennies along the way. Although big is relative... Think about being Crewe or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 FFP will create deeply entrenched immobility as the clubs with the highest turnover will have the most money to spend, forever, and this will compound over a nunber of years to the point where the dream of a smaller club breaking into even the top half of the prem will be a distant memory. Each club will essentially have an alloted league position, a range of about five places, and they will finish in those places every season, forever. But FFP means clubs will have to invest more in youth and build from the bottom up? No. That's were EPPP comes in. This splits youth academies into tiers. The best academies - naturally - the biggest clubs, will have the pick of any player they want, they'll be able to take any of our academy for a fee based on a formula which renders the fee so small as to be irrelevant. You're talking £50k for our star youth player. So in summary, clubs like ours will no longer be able to receive investment to buy players. We will lose any good youth players for nothing. The bigger clubs will have mountains of cash to spend, and will be able to pick off any youth player they fancy. The end of football? I'm guessing they tried to justify this by saying it would improve the national side eventually? I agree with what you're saying, I have similar concerns. I don't know if it will be quite as dramatic and clear cut as you are suggesting, but I can't say sor sure that it won't be either. It's hard to see that far into the future, and who knows something like this might be the catalyst for even bigger changes. I don't think FFP is a good thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 Has anyone got the attendance fgures for this season. I'd be pretty sure they are down looking at some stadium in the top tier. Never mind the FFP affecting clubs it'll effect the fans who as usual will be made to cough up more money cos of the inadequate money management of clubs paying crap players 100k a week ...Samba-QPR and example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 And yet very few fans have been protesting about this. Only Palace I can think of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy1960 Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 The emergency of Sky pumpimg money into the premier league creating hugely inflated transfer fees and ridiculously high wages for prettty average players has pushed ever increasingly clubs into debt. Re EPPP clubs with well established youth academies such as palace and watford voted against the proposals but sadly rather short sightedly the majority of league clubs voted in favour as refusal todo so would have resulted in funding to the league being cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 3 March 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March 2013 The emergency of Sky pumpimg money into the premier league creating hugely inflated transfer fees and ridiculously high wages for prettty average players has pushed ever increasingly clubs into debt. If FFP prevented clubs from going into debt only, then fine. The problem is it goes further than that. It prevents any direct investment in a club. That should help save clubs from debt, but it also means that no club can ever realistically hope to achieve any meaningful amount of growth in status. They've even made provision in the rules for stamping out indirect investment in the form of artificially high sponsorship deals and such. Deals which in no way create debt. I don't know why most clubs voted in favour of FFP. It is reported that we voted against. I can only imagine there was some kind of immediate pressure placed on clubs to comply. To be honest the whole thing stinks of corruption. It really could ruin football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy1960 Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 Football as we used to know is already ruined. Realistically only Man U. Man City & Chelsea have a chance of winning the league, the others are really just hoping to stay in it whilst championship clubs are desperately trying to get into the promised land before the gulf caused by the riches of tv money gets any bigger. If the authorities really wanted to improve the game they should implement a wage cap, reduce ticket prices, restrict number of foreign players in matchday squads and allow safe standing areas. I wish we could follow the example of the Bundesliga in Germany but sadly can't see any of the above happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 I agree about the EPPP, I think the whole idea stinks, even though we stand a good chance of being one of the premier academies, it is just wrong. Without the EPPP then FPP, would be ok and I think those rules will be modified over time, but initially the aim is to stop clubs being mismanaged into the ground and going out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 I doubt the results of FFP will be as predictable as this. The original idea of the Premier League was to get the biggest clubs in the country competing with each other. This hasn't happened. Many of the less illustrious big clubs have struggled to remain in the Premier League, with many falling lower than the second tier, while clubs with no history of being in the top flight have managed to establish themselves in the PL. I doubt clubs will be limited to finishing five places above or below some kind of median point. Leicester has proved that money is a very unpredictable indicator of success. There will be clubs who will succeed against the financial odds and clubs who underachieve even though they have thrown money around. Factors such as the quality of the manager, team spirit, luck and other unquantifiable variables will still shape the game. I've always thought FFP was generally a good thing. It allows clubs who can generate income through higher attendances to be successful again, by taking away the distorting factor of investment. I also suspect it will be good for a club like Leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 3 March 2013 Share Posted 3 March 2013 Totally disagree re FFP - this has been brought in to stop the situation at Pompey becoming an annual event affecting many clubs. It is designed to create stability and sustainable clubs, and stop short term owner syndrome, where owners arrive throw some money at a club (more often than not via loans), massively increase the wage costs and then leave, living the club in a real mess. The introduction of FFP will be good for the game in the long run. However agree on EPPP, taking away the ability of a lower club to find a young star, keep them and generate significant revenue should not have been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 4 March 2013 Author Share Posted 4 March 2013 Football as we used to know is already ruined. Realistically only Man U. Man City & Chelsea have a chance of winning the league Chelsea and man city are both relatively new to the top of the premiership. FFP won't allow that. It will be the same handful of clubs not just for a few years, but forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 4 March 2013 Author Share Posted 4 March 2013 Totally disagree re FFP - this has been brought in to stop the situation at Pompey becoming an annual event affecting many clubs. It is designed to create stability and sustainable clubs, and stop short term owner syndrome, where owners arrive throw some money at a club (more often than not via loans), massively increase the wage costs and then leave, living the club in a real mess. The introduction of FFP will be good for the game in the long run. However agree on EPPP, taking away the ability of a lower club to find a young star, keep them and generate significant revenue should not have been changed. If they wanted to prevent another pompey they would have stopped at restricting debt. Why did they go so much further by banning all investment? No-one benefits from that apart from the clubs already at the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 4 March 2013 Share Posted 4 March 2013 Totally disagree re FFP - this has been brought in to stop the situation at Pompey becoming an annual event affecting many clubs. It is designed to create stability and sustainable clubs, and stop short term owner syndrome, where owners arrive throw some money at a club (more often than not via loans), massively increase the wage costs and then leave, living the club in a real mess. The introduction of FFP will be good for the game in the long run. However agree on EPPP, taking away the ability of a lower club to find a young star, keep them and generate significant revenue should not have been changed. If they wanted to prevent another pompey they would have stopped at restricting debt. Why did they go so much further by banning all investment? No-one benefits from that apart from the clubs already at the top Been brought in to stop another Chelsea or Man City taking money, resources & CL spots away from ManUtd, Arsenal & Liverpool & now include Chelsea, ManCity & Spurs in that clique too... Meaning they've they've got sufficient sway over the FA to force through these initiatives & keep all that money for themselves. the Premiership itself was the first step to a few clubs maintaining a lock on all the money, FFP ensures the real big money stays between even fewer clubs. I don't have the numbers, but the amount of clubs who won the top flight in the 70's & 80's was ridiculously high compared to 90's & especially the 00's... Now there's only 3 clubs that can ever win it thanks to to them voting to lock everyone else out of even having the chance to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Blue Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 Although I agree, this is going to be a complete mess because it will result in chaos and regs being made on the hoof, IMO. It is quite ironic that we are discussing it, seeing LCFC were one of the clubs that probably created the need for FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royston. Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 Its ironic that the system introduced to "save" the game will ultimately destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Blue Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 Its ironic that the system introduced to "save" the game will ultimately destroy it. There must be some middle ground, you would have thought. Just let clubs make a loss of 10million a year or something. Not that would help us out in our current financial meltdown.We miss promotion which is likely, then we are staring down the barrel. Our owners are very wealthy clowns. Unfortunately, with the FFP their wealth counts for nothing, which leaves us with.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 Football as I knew it died with the creation the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 5 March 2013 Author Share Posted 5 March 2013 There must be some middle ground, you would have thought. Just let clubs make a loss of 10million a year or something. Not that would help us out in our current financial meltdown. We miss promotion which is likely, then we are staring down the barrel. Our owners are very wealthy clowns. Unfortunately, with the FFP their wealth counts for nothing, which leaves us with.............. What on earth are you talking about? Financial meltdown, clowns? You haven't a clue. Our owners have done all that they can. This is about the unfairness of FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Blue Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 What on earth are you talking about? Financial meltdown, clowns? You haven't a clue. Our owners have done all that they can. This is about the unfairness of FFP. You're the crazy one, they have sanctioned all this spending. It isn't the money they've spent, they can afford it. Its the liabilities they've created for the club that's the problem. The wage bill they have created will last for the length of the players contracts and we cant possibly meet the FFP requirements.By the rules we wont be able to sign players in the future and presumably our best players will have to be sold to try and reduce the following years deficit. One article stated that they had invested 150 million into City, I suppose that dosen't matter to you either does it. In my world there is no such thing as a free lunch. Yes, they have said they will convert this into shares, so now our club has a rediculously high value and we are trading insolvently as our assets are knowhere near the value of the shares but I guess you're not bothered about that either. Another article stated that they had made a 60 million loan to the club at 8%, thats 4.8million, nearly all next seasons FFP budget, they might be converting this into a share issue but that article didn't say so. Although I can't see how they can avoid not turning it into shares. Don't give me that old crap about, it wont matter if we go up, I know Cheltenhams around the corner but that mantra belongs at gamblers anonymous. The biggest ever yearly loss at a Championship Club, there are plenty of other wealthy owners around, why aren't they buying their way to a pot of gold, maybe its because this business plan is not sustainable. "this is all about the unfairness of the FFP", have you lost it, we cant stamp our feet and they'll cave in, this is a UEFA rule which everyone HAS to conform to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 5 March 2013 Author Share Posted 5 March 2013 You're wrong in just about every paragraph of that post. I can't be bothered to respond properly because it's just ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Blue Posted 5 March 2013 Share Posted 5 March 2013 You're wrong in just about every paragraph of that post. I can't be bothered to respond properly because it's just ludicrous. course I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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