Financial Fair Play

[Foxblogger]

Have you yet received a reply from the Football League or obtained information from elsewhere as to how the paying-up of a player's contract would be treated under FFP?

 

I think the Foxes Trust was raising this specific point with the Football League.

 

Did the report referred to in your post deal with the paying-up of a player's contract signed before 25th April 2012 when the Football League announced the FFP rules were agreed?

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

 

It's a strange one, this.

 

It's said that UEFAs version of FFP there is a cut off date, and that contracts signed before that date do not count towards the FFP limit. I confess I haven't studied UEFAs proposals in that much detail.

 

However, in none of the documents published by the Football League with regards to FFP in the Championship is such a measure mentioned.

 

The Football League has gone into detail about other exemptions. For example, if a player suffers a career ending injury, paying off his contract does not count against FFP limit for the season. 

 

So for the Football League to have said nothing about this in the last 14 months would be a staggering omission, particularly as it would impact several clubs in the division quite significantly, not just Leicester.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath about such an exemption being in the rules.

[unreachable]

It's a strange one, this.

 

It's said that UEFAs version of FFP there is a cut off date, and that contracts signed before that date do not count towards the FFP limit. I confess I haven't studied UEFAs proposals in that much detail.

 

However, in none of the documents published by the Football League with regards to FFP in the Championship is such a measure mentioned.

 

The Football League has gone into detail about other exemptions. For example, if a player suffers a career ending injury, paying off his contract does not count against FFP limit for the season. 

 

So for the Football League to have said nothing about this in the last 14 months would be a staggering omission, particularly as it would impact several clubs in the division quite significantly, not just Leicester.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath about such an exemption being in the rules.

I'm surprised that you haven't studied the UEFA proposals "in that much detail" since the Football League's "breakeven approach is based on the UEFA Financial Fairplay Regulations".

[Monk]

Here's how we do it. We buy 3 or 4 players from Army United in a package deal of a million quid, before they buy them all back in January in a package deal of fifty million quid. Problem solved.

 

Are there any rules against sale and buyback deals? This would potentially be a loophole in loan rules.

[Babylon]

Negotiating players contracts and terms of employment has naff all to do with the manager regardless who is or was at the helm. Can't believe people are blaming Sven for this. Clever agents will get the best possible deal for their players it is then up to the club whether to pay them or not.

Has nothing to do with the manager.

 

Yes it does have something to do with the manager, they are responsible for squad harmony. Bringing in one player on 35k and having another on 5k is something any decent manager should be aware of. It is also down to the manager to make sure he's getting value, whether that's from a signing or someone at the club signing a new contract. If Sven wasn't involved, he bloody should have been.

 

Secondly, if the players who had chosen to sign or to give contracts to were any good we really wouldn't have a bloody problem. The reason we are up shit creek is because we have a lot of very average players on above average wages. HE chose these players. Nobody is particularly with what Kasper and Nugent earn (a pretty penny I'm sure) because they actually earn their money and have resale value.

[unreachable]

I have received an email from Daniel Geey who is a solicitor and sports lawyer with Field Fisher Waterhouse in which he refers to two articles which he thought would be of interest:

http://www.danielgeey.com/my-top-ten-tips-for-understanding-football-league-financial-fair-play/

http://www.danielgeey.com/football-league-financial-fair-play-domestic-league-regulation/

The second article contains a table comparing the Football League FFP Regulations with the UEFA FFP Regulations which contains a topic called "Cost exclusion of certain player contracts" which states that "no such exclusions bar career ending injury costs" compared to the UEFA regulations which allows for player wages under pre June 2010 to be excluded.

Interesting to note Mr Geey's comments as to how the Football League may police the regulations.

Mr Geey states in the second article that it appears the FL has drafted general anti-evasion provisions to ensure clubs comply with the spirit of the regulations. Interestingly, there is a specific provision in the regulations which aims to ensure that clubs:

“at all times and in all matters within the scope of these Rules, behave with the utmost good faith both towards The League and the other Championship Clubs†and do not “take unfair advantage which is intended to seek to or does take any unfair advantage in relation to the assessment of fulfilment (or non-fulfilment) of the Fair Play Requirement.â€

[Foxblogger]

I'm surprised that you haven't studied the UEFA proposals "in that much detail" since the Football League's "breakeven approach is based on the UEFA Financial Fairplay Regulations".

 

Yes, it's based on it. As we're discovering, it's actually a system of its own with different caveats and governance.

 

Having a comprehensive understanding of UEFA FFP is not necessary to understand FL FFP.

[Finn Claw II]

Has anyone actually seen or has a link to the FL FFP document?  The UEFA one can be downloaded from their website but I've only ever found summary articles for the FL FFP.

 

Who doesn't want a 50 page plus document as bed-time reading....

[Swiss_tony]

Has anyone actually seen or has a link to the FL FFP document?  The UEFA one can be downloaded from their website but I've only ever found summary articles for the FL FFP.

 

Who doesn't want a 50 page plus document as bed-time reading....

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

 

this may be the summary you mention and therefore no use to you.

[ealingfox]

If the FL's intention behind FFP really is making all the Clubs financially sustainable, rather than trying to catch teams out to exact the fines from them, then we should certainly be allowed to pay off the shitmunchers and have that loss ringfenced out of the equation. We would be trying to get up to speed by righting wrongs that were made well before the laws came in.

[jamesmilner]

we will do as we are told, not whats best for us . ffp in long term will hopefully get clubs to get their fingers out their arses and coach our youth up the standards expected . a look at our u21s pathetic last three games just show we need to do something .  short term these restrictions are not good for anyone but in say 10 years time, we should have proven systems in to produce at our academies . something needs to be done and i just hope this helps our youth football improve as it  cannot do it any harm . surely the thais investment at the training ground and application for prem status at academy level shows they are planning for the future ? 

[unreachable]

Has anyone actually seen or has a link to the FL FFP document?  The UEFA one can be downloaded from their website but I've only ever found summary articles for the FL FFP.

 

Who doesn't want a 50 page plus document as bed-time reading....

Daniel Geey referred to in my post #105 above has emailed me to say that he believes that the Football League's FFP rules have not been published and he is unable to pass on a copy of the rules he has.

 

So secrecy reigns.  UEFA have published the UEFA rules but the Football League has not done so.

[Finn Claw II]

Daniel Geey referred to in my post #105 above has emailed me to say that he believes that the Football League's FFP rules have not been published and he is unable to pass on a copy of the rules he has.

 

So secrecy reigns.  UEFA have published the UEFA rules but the Football League has not done so.

 

Ta thanks for this, this is as I suspected

[Mack]

What a crock of shit this FFP really is.

If I owned a chain of fast food shops and wanted to invest large amounts of my own capital in expanding my business no one would tell me no. In fact I would be praised for creating jobs and my entrepreneurial spirit.

However in Football now we have rules that mean you cannot run your business as you would like. And how could teams like Fulham have got where there are without a significant investment in the playing staff?

And who is UEFA or anyone else to tell the owner of a club that he cant spend him own money on building his club?

Of course it is wrong when money is spent with wild abandon when it's all begged and borrowed and puts a club's whole future at risk, but when an owner can substantiate his spending based on his/her/their own wealth what is the problem?

[yorkie1999]

What a crock of shit this FFP really is.

If I owned a chain of fast food shops and wanted to invest large amounts of my own capital in expanding my business no one would tell me no. In fact I would be praised for creating jobs and my entrepreneurial spirit.

However in Football now we have rules that mean you cannot run your business as you would like. And how could teams like Fulham have got where there are without a significant investment in the playing staff?

And who is UEFA or anyone else to tell the owner of a club that he cant spend him own money on building his club?

Of course it is wrong when money is spent with wild abandon when it's all begged and borrowed and puts a club's whole future at risk, but when an owner can substantiate his spending based on his/her/their own wealth what is the problem?

Its crazy, if i won 150 million on the euro lottery why can't i go a buy a football club and spend my own money on it? I think some-ones interpretating the rules wrong.

     In fact if i win the national lottery this weekend i'm going out and buying coventry city..and if i get 4 numbers i'm going to buy the players as well.

[Mack]

Its crazy, if i won 150 million on the euro lottery why can't i go a buy a football club and spend my own money on it? I think some-ones interpretating the rules wrong.

     In fact if i win the national lottery this weekend i'm going out and buying coventry city..and if i get 4 numbers i'm going to buy the players as well.

 

You can buy them without even wasting a quid on a ticket.

[Vlad the Fox]

Its crazy, if i won 150 million on the euro lottery why can't i go a buy a football club and spend my own money on it? I think some-ones interpretating the rules wrong.

     In fact if i win the national lottery this weekend i'm going out and buying coventry city..and if i get 4 numbers i'm going to buy the players as well.

What will you spend the change on?

[yorkie1999]

What will you spend the change on?

a digger. So I can dig the ground up and find if there really is a Leicester kiss of death scarf buried there.

[MooseBreath]

we will do as we are told, not whats best for us . ffp in long term will hopefully get clubs to get their fingers out their arses and coach our youth up the standards expected . a look at our u21s pathetic last three games just show we need to do something . short term these restrictions are not good for anyone but in say 10 years time, we should have proven systems in to produce at our academies . something needs to be done and i just hope this helps our youth football improve as it cannot do it any harm . surely the thais investment at the training ground and application for prem status at academy level shows they are planning for the future ?

EPPP rules out the academy route unfortunately

[Foxes_Trust]

We have had a reply from the Football League on two points we asked for clarification on, the first relating to the question raised on here by Vadar

 

• There is no rule within Championship FFP to give allowances for players that were signed on long term deals prior to the acceptance of the Fair Play Rules.

The other question raised on another message board related to "inflated values of sponsorship deals by "related parties"

• If the auditor, as part of its review, notes any related party transactions that have been made above or below fair value, they will be adjusted for in the fair play calculation.

[ian_marshall]

<p>

We have had a reply from the Football League on two points we asked for clarification on, the first relating to the question raised on here by Vadar

• p

• There is no rule within Championship FFP to give allowances for players that were signed on long term deals prior to the acceptance of the Fair Play Rules.

The other question raised on another message board related to "inflated values of sponsorship deals by "related parties"

• If the auditor, as part of its review, notes any related party transactions that have been made above or below fair value, they will be adjusted for in the fair play calculation.

Re: 2nd response. The Football League can only regulate and impose sanctions on clubs for activities and transactions carried out by clubs in this country. The smarter owners out there will utilise links with foreign clubs to work around the rules whilst remaining well within the boundaries of FFP.

Monaco are the prime example of a club that is already exploiting loopholes within the UEFA regulations despite the fact that they've only just been introduced.

[unreachable]

 

We have had a reply from the Football League on two points we asked for clarification on, the first relating to the question raised on here by Vadar

 

• There is no rule within Championship FFP to give allowances for players that were signed on long term deals prior to the acceptance of the Fair Play Rules.

The other question raised on another message board related to "inflated values of sponsorship deals by "related parties"

• If the auditor, as part of its review, notes any related party transactions that have been made above or below fair value, they will be adjusted for in the fair play calculation.

 

Can you ask the Football League why it has not published the FFP rules  and whether it has any plans to do so?  As mentioned above UEFA has published its FFP rules but the Football League has chosen not to do so.

[Swiss_tony]

What a crock of shit this FFP really is.

If I owned a chain of fast food shops and wanted to invest large amounts of my own capital in expanding my business no one would tell me no. In fact I would be praised for creating jobs and my entrepreneurial spirit.

However in Football now we have rules that mean you cannot run your business as you would like. And how could teams like Fulham have got where there are without a significant investment in the playing staff?

And who is UEFA or anyone else to tell the owner of a club that he cant spend him own money on building his club?

Of course it is wrong when money is spent with wild abandon when it's all begged and borrowed and puts a club's whole future at risk, but when an owner can substantiate his spending based on his/her/their own wealth what is the problem?

Yes, but by  the same token, if you owned your own business, you wouldn't loan it 50 million quid, in the hope you'll get 150 million down  the line, and if it doesn't pan out declare bancruptcy and then be the first in the line of creditors for the remaining assets would you. that's how the modern owner works.

[Foxes_Trust]

Can you ask the Football League why it has not published the FFP rules  and whether it has any plans to do so?  As mentioned above UEFA has published its FFP rules but the Football League has chosen not to do so.

 

Although the FL answered our two questions, we are dis-appointed that they refuse to appear on media outlets to discuss FFP currently, just at the time the rules actually kick in.

 

We will also believe they should have at the very least published how many passed & failed the assessment they carried out last December to give fans a general guide of how much needs to change.

 

Be aware that the FL never publish when clubs are subject to a transfer embargo, so when they do kick in Jan 2015 fans will not be told (at least that is the current plan, but we plan to lobby along with other Trusts on the basis "fans have a right to know").

 

Remember the ban that applied to Swindon only became public knowledge when Di Canio had a media outburst about it.

[unreachable]

Although the FL answered our two questions, we are dis-appointed that they refuse to appear on media outlets to discuss FFP currently, just at the time the rules actually kick in.

 

We will also believe they should have at the very least published how many passed & failed the assessment they carried out last December to give fans a general guide of how much needs to change.

 

Be aware that the FL never publish when clubs are subject to a transfer embargo, so when they do kick in Jan 2015 fans will not be told (at least that is the current plan, but we plan to lobby along with other Trusts on the basis "fans have a right to know").

 

Remember the ban that applied to Swindon only became public knowledge when Di Canio had a media outburst about it.

I notice that you didn't answer my question in post #121.  Is this because Foxes Trust has received or is in possession of a copy of the Football League's FFP rules and is not at liberty to disclose them publicly?

 

It also crossed my mind that Portsmouth FC was a Championship club at the time the FFP rules were agreed and since Portsmouth FC is now owned by the Pompey Supporters' Trust that you might have a friendly contact there who could supply you with a copy of the rules.  Is this feasible?

[Guy1960]

Re: 2nd response. The Football League can only regulate and impose sanctions on clubs for activities and transactions carried out by clubs in this country. The smarter owners out there will utilise links with foreign clubs to work around the rules whilst remaining well within the boundaries of FFP.

Monaco are the prime example of a club that is already exploiting loopholes within the UEFA regulations despite the fact that they've only just been introduced.

The Football League clubs have effectively shot themselves in the foot by closing the loans loophole, keeping it open would have offered greater flexibilty