Guest MattP Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 We've all been to the doctors too, probably more recently than you have been to school - does that qualify us all to comment on their profession too then? To be fair I think we have all spent a little bit more time in the classroom than the doctors surgery.
Tielemans63 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 Teaching is much simpler than being a doctor, that is why the comparison is invalid. You could shadow a refuse collection officer for a day What were you saying about invalid comparisons? You don't rate teachers. I get it.
MooseBreath Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 So between the ages of 5 and (I assume) 16, you felt mature and insightful enough to understand what the profession? Yep.
Parafox Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 If you can't do...teach! I do both. I work operationally at my profession and act as a mentor/teacher to newbies.
Guest MattP Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 What were you saying about invalid comparisons? You don't rate teachers. I get it. My opinion of teachers is actually formed by the 3/4 I know. All cracking blokes actually, but not too bright. We aren't asking ex soldiers to be Uni lecturers on Chemistry, but after a couple of years I'm sure they could teach 5-14 year olds.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 My opinion of teachers is actually formed by the 3/4 I know. All cracking blokes actually, but not too bright. We aren't asking ex soldiers to be Uni lecturers on Chemistry, but after a couple of years I'm sure they could teach 5-14 year olds. Watching any quiz show where teachers have competed will confirm as much; but am I right in thinking that they're good at holding your attention and explaining stuff? Which is the real skill (and one which I'm not sure can be taught.)
MooseBreath Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 You went to further education?! I have over 20 letters after my name believe it or not
Rincewind Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I've seen PM question time. I know enough about avoiding answering questions to be PM.
MooseBreath Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I've seen the dole queue up town, i know how to shoot up smack and breed for profit.
Rincewind Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I've seen the dole queue up town, i know how to shoot up smack and breed for profit. yes you have the idea now.
yorkie1999 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I do both. I work operationally at my profession and act as a mentor/teacher to newbies. So do i, but how many ever thank you for passing on your knowledge free of charge.
Guest MattP Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 Watching any quiz show where teachers have competed will confirm as much; but am I right in thinking that they're good at holding your attention and explaining stuff? Which is the real skill (and one which I'm sure can be taught.) Yep, I always have a laugh watching the chase when you see the next teacher/assistant/advisor (How many do they have in the classroom these days?) being carted off after thinking Barcelona was the capital of Madrid. Not knocking the ones who teach real subjects mind, I never got my head around anything Scientific, but I'm sure most could take a two year course and teach Year 7 Social Studies.
Zingari Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I think this could work quite well in the opposite direction too . My old geography teacher could hurl a blackboard duster with inch perfect precision at my head. He'd have made a great close combat soldier . Especially if we were ever invaded by lazy schoolboys !!
Tielemans63 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 To be fair I think we have all spent a little bit more time in the classroom than the doctors surgery.You probably have. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that you probably haven't in the last 10 years though. Teaching will have almost certainly changed since you last experienced it.In my humble opinion, having 3/4 mates in the profession and watching the trials of some 'teachers' on daytime TV doesn't give you anymore than an onlooker's perspective. But then that's my opinion.
Guest MattP Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 You probably have. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that you probably haven't in the last 10 years though. Teaching will have almost certainly changed since you last experienced it. In my humble opinion, having 3/4 mates in the profession and watching the trials of some 'teachers' on daytime TV doesn't give you anymore than an onlooker's perspective. But then that's my opinion. Oh it definitely has, you only have to look how thick the average kid who comes out of school is now. (and I live in a fairly decent area).
Jon the Hat Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 Jesus some teacher's aren't half precious about their profession. I have a business degree, and an accounting qualification, but you know what? There are lot of other people in my profession who are very capable and have either only one of those or neither. Also people with MBAs on top who have not been as sucessful as me. All of these things tell me that there are many routes to being a success in my profession. I would not for a second think that an intelligent person from another field who was assessed as having the attributes to succeed in my field would not be able to do so with as much success as someone who took the academic route.
Tielemans63 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 Jesus some teacher's aren't half precious about their profession. I have a business degree, and an accounting qualification, but you know what? There are lot of other people in my profession who are very capable and have either only one of those or neither. Also people with MBAs on top who have not been as sucessful as me. All of these things tell me that there are many routes to being a success in my profession. I would not for a second think that an intelligent person from another field who was assessed as having the attributes to succeed in my field would not be able to do so with as much success as someone who took the academic route.I'm massively passionate about what I do, not precious. What infuriates me is that teaching always seems to be judged by the lowest common denominator - usually individuals who aren't passionate about the profession but who come into it for all the wrong reasons, knowing full-well that they're shit at it. Also, at no point have I (or anyone else for that matter) said that people from other industries can't succeed in teaching- of course they can. I'm not under any illusions that teachers are the intellectual cream of the crop. My point was that some people have an awful lot to say about an industry they clearly know little about. I have nothing more than a cursory knowledge of your industry so I would not be so arrogant as to think I knew as much as you about it.
davieG Posted 7 June 2013 Author Posted 7 June 2013 What seems to me to be totally illogical is to go from needing a degree and stopping anyone from any other background from becoming a teacher to then letting ex military personal become one. Surely if it's acceptable for them it should be for anyone else without a degree provided they satisfy the same criteria. This suggests to me it's political expedience to satisfy Tory MPs who are pissed off by having redundant military personnel in their constituencies and very little to do with improving the education of our children. I believe it was wrong to introduce the must have a degree ruling in the first place as there is massive potential and lots to be gained from people in other careers. Having a degree doesn't mean you're going to be good at teaching which for me is a unique skill and a lot more than just having knowledge of a subject.
Tielemans63 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 What seems to me to be totally illogical is to go from needing a degree and stopping anyone from any other background from becoming a teacher to then letting ex military personal become one. Surely if it's acceptable for them it should be for anyone else without a degree provided they satisfy the same criteria. This suggests to me it's political expedience to satisfy Tory MPs who are pissed off by having redundant military personnel in their constituencies and very little to do with improving the education of our children. I believe it was wrong to introduce the must have a degree ruling in the first place as there is massive potential and lots to be gained from people in other careers. Having a degree doesn't mean you're going to be good at teaching which for me is a unique skill and a lot more than just having knowledge of a subject. Great post Davie G.
Webbo Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 What seems to me to be totally illogical is to go from needing a degree and stopping anyone from any other background from becoming a teacher to then letting ex military personal become one. Surely if it's acceptable for them it should be for anyone else without a degree provided they satisfy the same criteria. This suggests to me it's political expedience to satisfy Tory MPs who are pissed off by having redundant military personnel in their constituencies and very little to do with improving the education of our children. I believe it was wrong to introduce the must have a degree ruling in the first place as there is massive potential and lots to be gained from people in other careers. Having a degree doesn't mean you're going to be good at teaching which for me is a unique skill and a lot more than just having knowledge of a subject. I seem to remember there was a scheme to recruit people with business experience under the last Tory govt. I don't know if that scheme is still running though.
Tielemans63 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 I seem to remember there was a scheme to recruit people with business experience under the last Tory govt. I don't know if that scheme is still running though.There was, and it was rolled out again under Labour if I remember correctly but it was mostly a failure. There were some exceptions of course but obviously, if you're any good in business, you'll stay in business. The people coming in were mostly failed businessmen who were looking for a fall back. Generally speaking its these people, coming in for the wrong reasons, who give the profession a bad name. I'm not against the idea of ex-forces personnel coming into the profession at all - it could well be a good thing but I think the assumption that discipline will automatically improve markedly is a risky one.
Charl91 Posted 7 June 2013 Posted 7 June 2013 Yep, I always have a laugh watching the chase when you see the next teacher/assistant/advisor (How many do they have in the classroom these days?) being carted off after thinking Barcelona was the capital of Madrid. Not knocking the ones who teach real subjects mind, I never got my head around anything Scientific, but I'm sure most could take a two year course and teach Year 7 Social Studies. To be fair, if I was asked what the capital of Madrid was, I'd be stumped! (Unless it was M)
Rincewind Posted 8 June 2013 Posted 8 June 2013 There was, and it was rolled out again under Labour if I remember correctly but it was mostly a failure. There were some exceptions of course but obviously, if you're any good in business, you'll stay in business. The people coming in were mostly failed businessmen who were looking for a fall back. Generally speaking its these people, coming in for the wrong reasons, who give the profession a bad name. I'm not against the idea of ex-forces personnel coming into the profession at all - it could well be a good thing but I think the assumption that discipline will automatically improve markedly is a risky one. True. They will have to follow the same guidelines as other teachers. So no playground drilling or a month in the cooler for the kids.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 8 June 2013 Posted 8 June 2013 Good idea. More discipline is what is needed in schools. Shoot the trouble makers. I believe it could be a very good thing, but two years only of training is inadequate.
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