Rincewind Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/revealed-big-rise-in-number-of-children-in-classes-of-more-than-30-pupils-8669175.html
Jon the Hat Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 It's a disgrace, will take some time to fix, and free schools are a start. Requiring developers to fund schools would also help.
leicsmac Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 I would say big class sizes are actually one of the leading causes of education decline. That and many parents not backing teachers in matters of classroom discipline which means (amongst other reasons) teachers have much less classroom power. Big class sizes make it harder to maintain control, encourage a rote system of learning which is good for maybe 30% of the class, and results in a lot of kids simply being left behind as it is simply not possible to check on all of them each lesson. Having done a fair bit of work in schools I would say the ideal class size is 8-10 per lesson and teacher...but it's going to take a lot of work to hit that target.
Captain... Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 I think this calls for more education cuts, and lets completely fvck up the curriculum in the process.
Rincewind Posted 22 June 2013 Author Posted 22 June 2013 I think this calls for more education cuts, and lets completely fvck up the curriculum in the process. At least you and Moose agree on something.
ADK Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 We had 37 in our primary school classes and most of my class rooms were prefab huts that were supposed to have been used for only a few years but had been in use for much longer with leaking roofs. I suppose this was the legacy of the Thatcher/Major government. When Labour got in it was obvious that alot of money was spent on school buildings and equipment but also there seemed a massive increase in what i'd call "interference", more assessments and more telling the teachers exactly what they should be doing. We suddenly had a "literacy hour" which was excruciatingly boring and reduced the amount of time available for more interesting things.
The God Emperor Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 when I was at school we had a few classes that had few people in and it was exactly the same as the 30 plus classes. the intelligent one left to sort themselves out, the teachers pandering to the ones who didnt want to be there all lesson and the ones who are struggling but dont start disrupting everything get no attention.
Matt Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 I would say big class sizes are actually one of the leading causes of education decline. That and many parents not backing teachers in matters of classroom discipline which means (amongst other reasons) teachers have much less classroom power. Big class sizes make it harder to maintain control, encourage a rote system of learning which is good for maybe 30% of the class, and results in a lot of kids simply being left behind as it is simply not possible to check on all of them each lesson. Having done a fair bit of work in schools I would say the ideal class size is 8-10 per lesson and teacher...but it's going to take a lot of work to hit that target. when I was at school we had a few classes that had few people in and it was exactly the same as the 30 plus classes. the intelligent one left to sort themselves out, the teachers pandering to the ones who didnt want to be there all lesson and the ones who are struggling but dont start disrupting everything get no attention. No. The education decline is due to schools not caring or bothering with the kids that aren't academically blessed. Results, results, results are all schools care about and the kids that don't learn as quick as others academically are lost along the way and brushed to one side so teachers can focus of the 'bright' kids. I wanted to learn but wasn't given the help I needed, I wasn't a bad kid, I was there to learn, I would have happily left school at 14 like some of the 'bad' kids in my school who went to college half of the week/school the other half, that would have suited me down the ground but no I had to stay at school because I wasn't a 'bad' kid, I was punished for being a good kid/ Don't get me wrong large classes certainly don't help this but I wasn't an academic kid, I go no help whatsoever. Maths, English, Science - I struggled big time, brushed to one side, but got A's and B's in Design Technology, Art, Technology, coincidence? In my experience all schools care about is results and they'd rather focus on kids that'll get good results and forget about those who won't get the results - Why bother with them was the attitude I came across. I have been accused as having a chip on my shoulder in the past, in truth I don't really care, I wanted to learn but wasn't bothered with, where I was good I was good, where I struggled I was left to struggle, it's the way I see it.
leicsmac Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 No. The education decline is due to schools not caring or bothering with the kids that aren't academically blessed. Results, results, results are all schools care about and the kids that don't learn as quick as others academically are lost along the way and brushed to one side so teachers can focus of the 'bright' kids. I wanted to learn but wasn't given the help I needed, I wasn't a bad kid, I was there to learn, I would have happily left school at 14 like some of the 'bad' kids in my school who went to college half of the week/school the other half, that would have suited me down the ground but no I had to stay at school because I wasn't a 'bad' kid, I was punished for being a good kid/ Don't get me wrong large classes certainly don't help this but I wasn't an academic kid, I go no help whatsoever. Maths, English, Science - I struggled big time, brushed to one side, but got A's and B's in Design Technology, Art, Technology, coincidence? In my experience all schools care about is results and they'd rather focus on kids that'll get good results and forget about those who won't get the results - Why bother with them was the attitude I came across. I have been accused as having a chip on my shoulder in the past, in truth I don't really care, I wanted to learn but wasn't bothered with, where I was good I was good, where I struggled I was left to struggle, it's the way I see it. It sounds like you have a legitimate gripe, fair enough. Certainly agree with you about the 'results' culture in schools now - that was one reason I got out. One thing I will say though is smaller class sizes would allow for greater flexibility for students like you were, more focus on them and more subjects that would command their attention. Non-academic subjects do need to have more of a focus in schools, and increasing staff and reducing class sizes would facilitate that.
The God Emperor Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 No. The education decline is due to schools not caring or bothering with the kids that aren't academically blessed. Results, results, results are all schools care about and the kids that don't learn as quick as others academically are lost along the way and brushed to one side so teachers can focus of the 'bright' kids. I wanted to learn but wasn't given the help I needed, I wasn't a bad kid, I was there to learn, I would have happily left school at 14 like some of the 'bad' kids in my school who went to college half of the week/school the other half, that would have suited me down the ground but no I had to stay at school because I wasn't a 'bad' kid, I was punished for being a good kid/ Don't get me wrong large classes certainly don't help this but I wasn't an academic kid, I go no help whatsoever. Maths, English, Science - I struggled big time, brushed to one side, but got A's and B's in Design Technology, Art, Technology, coincidence? In my experience all schools care about is results and they'd rather focus on kids that'll get good results and forget about those who won't get the results - Why bother with them was the attitude I came across. I have been accused as having a chip on my shoulder in the past, in truth I don't really care, I wanted to learn but wasn't bothered with, where I was good I was good, where I struggled I was left to struggle, it's the way I see it. this is definatley a large part of the problem. the only focus of school is to pass an exam, not gain any useful knowledge that can be applied to real life (maths and some science probably the only exception). The ones who struggled who were there to learn like you and me where left with no help. The only people who got any help where the ones who messed about and didnt want the help in the first place.
Stevosevic Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 School aren't the best, but pupils need support at home from parents that encourage them to work hard. Sadly, a lot of parents don't do this.
Finnaldo Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 School aren't the best, but pupils need support at home from parents that encourage them to work hard. Sadly, a lot of parents don't do this. Parents do need to get involved with their children's education but I feel the school system needs to reform their punishments. We had a punishment at school that if you were bad you had to sit in the corner and missed out on time at the end of the day. Looking back on it I don't see that it helped much but to make you feel a bit miserable. Personally I think having a behavioural support officer of sone kind to talk to the children about what they've done wrong and how they can improve would be much more beneficial than isolating them in a corner. That just creates resentment, the complete opposite of respect for a teacher. Therefore I think it would be better to teach them the error of their ways rather than putting them in a corner as punishment and ignoring them.
DennisNedry Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Well the White British population is stable, the only growth in our population is coming from immigrants and their children. Because we had a massive overwhelming immigration spike under Blair, the children of these immigants are now overcrowding the schools. I hope it's not racist to say that, it is just how it is.
purpleronnie Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Well the White British population is stable, the only growth in our population is coming from immigrants and their children. Because we had a massive overwhelming immigration spike under Blair, the children of these immigants are now overcrowding the schools. I hope it's not racist to say that, it is just how it is. Good, we need new people.
DennisNedry Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Good, we need new people. Agreed, especially with our ageing population. But it is causing problems in schools which is what the topic is about.
purpleronnie Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Agreed, especially with our ageing population. But it is causing problems in schools which is what the topic is about. Build more schools.
DennisNedry Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Build more schools. Building more schools and training/recruiting more teachers is all well and good, but can we afford it?
leicsmac Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Build more schools. The only public building right-wingers want more of is prisons. Anyhow if we can afford £100 billion on a nuclear deterrent that's practically obsolete in this day and age, I would say we can afford to invest a little more in education. After all, that's what education is - an investment where if you spend money on giving kids a good education, they'll get good jobs as a result and pay lots of taxes back into the public coffers to cover what it cost in the first place.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Well the White British population is stable, the only growth in our population is coming from immigrants and their children. Because we had a massive overwhelming immigration spike under Blair, the children of these immigants are now overcrowding the schools. I hope it's not racist to say that, it is just how it is. No, it's not racist, and is probably the biggest single reason for the decline of education, and increase in class sizes.
Rincewind Posted 22 June 2013 Author Posted 22 June 2013 You cannot get a pint of beer in an half pint glass. Solution? Use two half pint glasses.
AoWW Posted 22 June 2013 Posted 22 June 2013 Children of 30 plus in the classroom? What ever next It's so teachers can shag their 'pupils' without fear of legal action.
Rincewind Posted 23 June 2013 Author Posted 23 June 2013 It's so teachers can shag their 'pupils' without fear of legal action. Or visa versa. Sex education classes would be fun. Are there any night school classes available?
Zingari Posted 24 June 2013 Posted 24 June 2013 Having 30 kids to a class was quite normal in my day . I can't say my education suffered from it. The class was usually split fairly evenly ( 60/60 %)between boys and girls .
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