What makes a manager a 'Great' manager?

[breadandcheese]

Mourinho is a great manager.

 

A nobhead but a great manager.

 

I think that's the nail on the head regarding Mourinho.  

 

There is no doubt that he is a great manager, based on his record (and I don't think you can just dismiss his record by saying he was at big clubs).  However, he will never be remembered with the fondness of other great managers in the game, due to his personality and the way he carries himself. Managers like Paisley and Ferguson carried themselves in a way that was befitting of great men in the game.  Sure, we can all remember Fergie berating officials and playing mind games, but there were some lines that he didn't cross.  

 

Compare that with Mourinho:

 

- Running down the touchline shushing opposing fans, deliberately to wind them up.  Not exactly gracious in victory and potentially incitement.

- Eye gouging Tito Vilanova in a classico derby.  Pretty low.  

- Accusing the referee Fisk of colluding with Barcelona and visiting the Barca dressing room before the match.  It's one thing to questions a referee's decision during a game, another to question his whole integrity and accuse him of cheating.  This led to the referee quitting football after receiving death threats.

 

Mourinho is a great manager, but ultimately, he is classless (which befits his current job as manager of Chelsea perfectly).  It is for this reason, that unless he changes his approach, will mean that he is never remembered fondly in the game and never thought of in the same light as true legends in the game.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think that's the nail on the head regarding Mourinho.  

 

There is no doubt that he is a great manager, based on his record (and I don't think you can just dismiss his record by saying he was at big clubs).  However, he will never be remembered with the fondness of other great managers in the game, due to his personality and the way he carries himself. Managers like Paisley and Ferguson carried themselves in a way that was befitting of great men in the game.  Sure, we can all remember Fergie berating officials and playing mind games, but there were some lines that he didn't cross.  

 

Compare that with Mourinho:

 

- Running down the touchline shushing opposing fans, deliberately to wind them up.  Not exactly gracious in victory and potentially incitement.

- Eye gouging Tito Vilanova in a classico derby.  Despicable.

- Accusing the referee Fisk of colluding with Barcelona and visiting the Barca dressing room before the match.  It's one thing to questions a referee's decision during a game, another to question his whole integrity and accuse him of cheating.  This led to the referee quitting football after receiving death threats.

 

Mourinho is a great manager, but ultimately, he is classless (which befits his current job as manager of Chelsea perfectly).  It is for this reason, that unless he changes his approach, will mean that he is never remembered fondly in the game and never thought of in the same light as true legends in the game.

 

I don't know, climbing in a laundry bin to sneak into the dressing rooms when he was suspended from the touchline was pretty amazing.

[Mark_w]

Fair enough, but at the end of their careers Guardiola will have been more successful than Mourinho I think.

 

Perhaps, it'll be interesting to see how he gets on at Bayern. I certainly think that he could end up with a better record than Mourinho, but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't do that well post-Barcelona.

 

A nobhead but a great manager.

 

Isn't that true of all great managers?

[Trav Le Bleu]

There was a good item along this theme on MSN today

 

http://sport.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/time-for-manchester-united-to-cut-their-losses-and-look-for-a-new-manager-400252

 

 

Time for Manchester United to cut their losses and look for a new manager?

 

Patience may be a virtue, but stubborn pride is a sin. How far into an error do you cut your losses and admit defeat?

 

I am all for giving a man enough rope but not so much into helping him tie the noose. We arrive at October with Manchester United languishing in the bottom half of the table. They have seven points to show from the season thus far. Seven. 

 

They’ve already suffered more defeats than most title-winning teams endure in a season and are out of the title race before Halloween.

 

The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Chelsea jostle for top spot whilst United find themselves struggling below the crease in the newspaper.

 

A woeful autumn follows a farcical summer for the club. Would any of their rivals have made such an unholy hash of signing a player so keen to join them?

 

They took an age to sign a midfielder who judging by his abject performance in the Manchester derby isn’t even up to it. He was about as effective against City as a broken Betamax. So much for the messianic afro.

 

As for the derby, it was nothing short of a disgrace. A comprehensive thrashing from their local rivals in the most one-sided game between the two in years. If anything the score line flattered the team in red. The fact that United’s solitary rebuke was the best goal of the match was scant consolation.

 

Outfought, outthought and outplayed. Whereas City look like a team going places, United resemble a rabble of overpaid strangers.

 

And so to the clueless man in charge...

 

An increasingly forlorn and befuddled figure both on the touchline and at his excuse-filled press conferences. The Scottish drawl that once seemed so definite and authoritative now comes across as tetchy and uncertain.

 

He was hired for overachieving at a smaller club with lesser resources. It may be cruel to say it but perhaps that was his level, because this certainly isn’t.

 

The job is too big for him and the task too tall. It’s all well and good getting the best out of hungry journeymen and committed workhorses, but he’s dealing with household names now in the full glare of the world’s media.

 

This is Manchester United and everything that comes with it. The riches, the glamour - and the pressure. Of course it doesn’t help that he must work in the giant shadow of his legendary fellow Scot, but that was always going to be the case.

 

When do you cut your losses? For me the time has come. He may only be six games into his fourth season at the club, but it’s time for Alex Ferguson to do the decent thing and resign.

 

The club are going nowhere and he’s fast becoming a lame duck. If defeats to Derby, Norwich and Everton in the opening five fixtures weren’t bad enough, losing 5-1 to City was the final straw.

 

What have the supporters to look forward to after such a dismal start? A decent cup run? As if. Ta-ra, Fergie. Goodbye and good riddance. Get Villa’s Graham Taylor in to sort out this mess.

 

 

I thought it was quite clever.

[Corky]

Yep, incredible isn't it?

 

I'm not a huge fan of the guy but he genius is undisputed.

 

Same amount of European Cups as Ferguson and he only managed Forest and Derby for any length of time.

 

Takes something very special to drag sides out of Division Two and then win the top division, let alone dominate Europe twice in a row.

[Dan]

If it was that easy to win the Champions League with Porto or topple Barcelona then how come only Mourinho has done it in recent times? Let's not forget he won the Uefa Cup with Porto one year then the Champions League the next.

 

Let's not be silly now, look at what he's won. Top clubs or not top clubs you've still got to win them. Look at Inter since he left, they can't even qualify for the CL let alone beat Chelsea, Barca and Bayern Munich on the way to winning the thing. He's only ever lost 2 home league games in his managerial career. 

 

Admittedly he seems to have completely lost the plot since returning to Chelsea . But we'll see what happens. 

 

I'd say he was definitely a great manager because not only has he been there and done it, he's been there and done it in most major leagues with 4 or 5 different clubs. 

 

I'm not taking away winning the 'Champions' League with Porto at all as that's a very impressive achievement. My point though, was that since that, all he's done is join the richest club in each league.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's one thing having potential and another actually achieving it, but he really hasn't been challenged. If he'd not won the league with what he spent at Chelsea/Inter he'd be considered a failure, and his second year at Madrid was appalling by their standards.

 

He's a very good manager, but a true great? I'm not sure.

[Dan]

In my era, there's been 3 great managers.

Ferguson, Wenger and Guardiola. It's all going to boil down to people's opinions and what they see as great.

 

Guardiola was terrific for Barcelona but he's got work to do yet.

 

Like Mourinho though, he's joined a side who've just won it all anyway. I appreciate it makes sense to do that and I'm not using it against him, but it'll be hard to see what he does at Bayern as extraordinary - unless he's regularly winning the treble etc...

 

That Rene Girard deserves a lot of credit, for me. Won Ligue 1 in 2011/12 over PSG, with a squad that cost £7mil I believe. That's as good a modern day achievement as any I've heard.

[Dan]

There was a good item along this theme on MSN today

 

http://sport.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/time-for-manchester-united-to-cut-their-losses-and-look-for-a-new-manager-400252

 

 

 

I thought it was quite clever.

 

Is that article a wind up?

[Captain...]

There was a good item along this theme on MSN today

 

http://sport.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/time-for-manchester-united-to-cut-their-losses-and-look-for-a-new-manager-400252

 

 

 

I thought it was quite clever.

 

So was Paul Ince the messianic afro?

[Bobby Hundreds]

Is that article a wind up?

 

More a comparative analysis on the uncanny similarities between Fergie in 1989 and Moyes today.

[Guest MattP]

More a comparative analysis on the uncanny similarities between Fergie in 1989 and Moyes today.

 

Good article, though different times now.

 

Don't expect Moyes to be able to find find hidden gems across the continent like Schmeical and OGS for a pittance and get a youth team that delivers him Butt, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and the Nevilles for nothing.

 

Of course Moyes needs time, but I've just got a feeling that this one isn't going to end well, it's always hard to follow a legend and a comedown almost seems inevitable after what has been achieved.

 

 

Fergie got out at the perfect time, he realised the side that won the league wasn't that good last year and with Rio turning 36, Vidic and Evra 33 this season and the end of Scholes and Giggs to boot it's one hell of a rebuilding job.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Good article, though different times now.

 

Don't expect Moyes to be able to find find hidden gems across the continent like Schmeical and OGS for a pittance and get a youth team that delivers him Butt, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and the Nevilles for nothing.

 

Of course Moyes needs time, but I've just got a feeling that this one isn't going to end well, it's always hard to follow a legend and a comedown almost seems inevitable after what has been achieved.

 

 

Fergie got out at the perfect time, he realised the side that won the league wasn't that good last year and with Rio turning 36, Vidic and Evra 33 this season and the end of Scholes and Giggs to boot it's one hell of a rebuilding job.

 

Agree, although a clever piece of writing, Moyes is super ****ed.

[Trav Le Bleu]

So was Paul Ince the messianic afro?

 

I'm guessing

[chrishlcfc]

Nigel Pearson.

[Strokes]

In 20 years time you're going to remember Benitez and Mourinho simply because they have won the major trophies with major clubs, you won't remember a manager who's kept a Club in the Premier League for a number of years, it's a fine line on being a good manager and a great manager.

Your memory must be shit.

[Guest MattP]

In 20 years time you're going to remember Benitez and Mourinho simply because they have won the major trophies with major clubs, you won't remember a manager who's kept a Club in the Premier League for a number of years, it's a fine line on being a good manager and a great manager.

 

I'll be honest I'd almost forgot Benitez had won the Champions league when I wrote the post this morning. Thought it was Houllier for a while.

[Uncle Albert]

Your memory must be shit.

 

 

I'll be honest I'd almost forgot Benitez had won the Champions league when I wrote the post this morning. Thought it was Houllier for a while.

 

Benitez has a fantastic football CV, be a fool to dismiss him as a current great manager.

[Guest MattP]

Benitez has a fantastic football CV, be a fool to dismiss him as a current great manager.

 

It's pretty good.

 

Valencia superb.

Liverpool looks ok with a Champions League but no title a problem consdiering that was his main aim was.

Inter a total disaster, still recovering from it.

Chelsea fairly good.

Napoli a good start.

 

Needs more than 2 league titles and 1 Champions League though to be considered "great" with who he has managed.

[Uncle Albert]

It's pretty good.

 

Valencia superb.

Liverpool looks ok with a Champions League but no title a problem consdiering that was his main aim was.

Inter a total disaster, still recovering from it.

Chelsea fairly good.

Napoli a good start.

 

Needs more than 2 league titles and 1 Champions League though to be considered "great" with who he has managed.

 

Fair comment on needing more than two League titles, Inter Milan will probably cost him the greatness title, I think he deserves. Maybe if he can capture Serie A with Napoli then he will achieve that status.

 

I need to think of another talking point for next week, still can't believe the David Beckham one got that amount of replies and discussion.

[Guest MattP]

A title with Napoli would certainly give him redemption from the Inter job.

[Dan]

More a comparative analysis on the uncanny similarities between Fergie in 1989 and Moyes today.

 

To be calling for a manager after 6 league games is utterly absurd.

 

Man Utd won't sack him this season, they're a long-term planning club.

[Aus Fox]

How about Dario Grade? Would anyone consider him great? Never going to challenge for championships and major European trophies but what he did at Crewe was nothing short of amazing. But does that make him great?

[Captain...]

How about Dario Grade? Would anyone consider him great? Never going to challenge for championships and major European trophies but what he did at Crewe was nothing short of amazing. But does that make him great?

 

Can't call him a great manager and put him in the same bracket as Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho* as he was untested anywhere else, but what he did at Crewe was great.

 

*and yes I do think Jose is a great and deserves to be up there, what he achieved in Portugal was amazing, then he did what no other manager had been able to at Chelsea, despite Roman's billions, what he achieved at Inter was also Impressive, then breaking Barcelona's stranglehold on La Liga, I fear he may regret returning to Chelsea though.

[Uncle Albert]

How about Dario Grade? Would anyone consider him great? Never going to challenge for championships and major European trophies but what he did at Crewe was nothing short of amazing. But does that make him great?

 

I think that makes him a great Crewe manager, not a great manager.

[Kyle_Le_Don]

Couple of days on football manager should just about do it and get the badges online