Mandela

[Jimothy]

I saw Eastenders last week & they managed to shoehorn Mandela's death into that. Given that Eastenders is filmed months in advance, I thought it piss poor that they had filmed a scene in preparation for his death. Why bother? As if it isn't miserable enough already?

They couldn't predetermine the circumstances of his death, so had two actors staring aimlessly at a front page headline of the Walford Gazette stating that Mandela had died. Proper thought provoking it was.

They wouldn't have pre-filmed it. Enders has often filmed on the day of big events to get them in the show. I don't watch it all anymore but when I did they film a scene about Michael Jackson dying, and they've also done them about England results at major tournaments.

[pSinatra]

They wouldn't have pre-filmed it. Enders has often filmed on the day of big events to get them in the show. I don't watch it all anymore but when I did they film a scene about Michael Jackson dying, and they've also done them about England results at major tournaments.

 

Fair enough.  I admit to watching it every now & again, but I never knew they did that.

 

I don't see why they feel the need to do it though.  It's all over the news & all over the BBC.

 

It was an odd scene where two actors just stared at the newspaper headline for 10 seconds without saying anything.  One of them was Ian Beale's bird (whose name I can't remember) because she's black & black people all over the world should be somehow grateful to Mandela.

[Alf Bentley]

Is there no end to the BBC worship?

 

Question Time is actually from Johannesburg tomorrow.

 

Agree re. the TV overkill and "bullshit and obsession" (don't know whether ITV or Sky have been the same as the BBC, as I rarely watch anything other than football on there), even though Mandela was an important and admirable figure.

 

Doing Question Time from Jo'burg seems like a good idea, though, if properly done - a chance to look at what the future holds, and at the things that have gone wrong (persistent black poverty, crime, ANC corruption) as well as the things that went right (peaceful transition to majority rule). They've done similar "foreign Question Times" from USA and Europe before. I'm torn between watching that and the Bowie night on BBC4...

 

 

How can you not laugh when a nations people start cheering Robert Mugabe and Barack Obama and booing Tony Blair and George Bush, it's a memorial for Nelson Mandela's memorial and the crowd are judging on peoples race.

 

But from a personal level it's the bullshit and obsession I can't stand.

 

 

Seeing as Jacob Zuma (black last time I looked) was booed loudly, I don't think they were just judging people on race. Admittedly, cheering Mugabe is pretty sickening given what he's got up to in Zimbabwe - I'd presume the cheers mainly related to his role in ending white minority rule in Rhodesia, but still a bit nauseating. As for Blair and Bush, maybe that was because they were a pair of lying, warmongering gits....Did they boo Cameron? Maybe they didn't know who he was? Reports seem to suggest that De Klerk got a good reception, too....

[Guest MattP]

Agree re. the TV overkill and "bullshit and obsession" (don't know whether ITV or Sky have been the same as the BBC, as I rarely watch anything other than football on there), even though Mandela was an important and admirable figure.

 

Doing Question Time from Jo'burg seems like a good idea, though, if properly done - a chance to look at what the future holds, and at the things that have gone wrong (persistent black poverty, crime, ANC corruption) as well as the things that went right (peaceful transition to majority rule). They've done similar "foreign Question Times" from USA and Europe before. I'm torn between watching that and the Bowie night on BBC4...

 

 

Seeing as Jacob Zuma (black last time I looked) was booed loudly, I don't think they were just judging people on race. Admittedly, cheering Mugabe is pretty sickening given what he's got up to in Zimbabwe - I'd presume the cheers mainly related to his role in ending white minority rule in Rhodesia, but still a bit nauseating. As for Blair and Bush, maybe that was because they were a pair of lying, warmongering gits....Did they boo Cameron? Maybe they didn't know who he was? Reports seem to suggest that De Klerk got a good reception, too....

 

Read the link from Eastfox, the BBC sent three times the amount of people than all the other British TV channels put together

 

BBC QT Johannesburg is a good idea, for BBC South Africa or whatever station hosts their equivalent over there. It's a British political show, we don't fly to New York after an election to discuss Obamacare. That said what a great week for some politicians, a week off from the only form of public accountability they have and a chance to come across as compassionate with some phoney grief. That said for the first time in years I won't be watching tonight, it will be unbearable.

 

The race thing was a more a comparison to Bush and Obama, both a pair of warmongerer cnuts who will drop a bomb anywhere. One is loved. Though that bizarrly goes for the whole World as well.

 

Maybe Zuma was being booed though for being not black enough? I think they probably want a Mugabe type, the crowd in there seemed a very young extreme ANC lot and according to a few sources not in the mainstream media "shoot the boer" was being sung more than once, you could see the desperation in the camerman trying to find white faces in the crowd that weren't Chinese tourists or Western statespersons.

 

Cameron got nothing, clearly had no idea who he was. Though most of the Western politicians were just looking on with bemusement, I think they were picturing themselves at the centre of one the biggest ever global events of our time rather than a half empty stadium, speeches you couldn't hear and a crowd that resembled a pantomine.

 

We should just be pleased that no terrorist attack occured anyway (if it wasnt for the deaths that would occur what a delcious irony that would have been), considering a fake can stand next to Barack Obama you have to think it was more by luck than judgement.

[notnow john]

Agree re. the TV overkill and "bullshit and obsession" (don't know whether ITV or Sky have been the same as the BBC, as I rarely watch anything other than football on there), even though Mandela was an important and admirable figure.

 

Doing Question Time from Jo'burg seems like a good idea, though, if properly done - a chance to look at what the future holds, and at the things that have gone wrong (persistent black poverty, crime, ANC corruption) as well as the things that went right (peaceful transition to majority rule). They've done similar "foreign Question Times" from USA and Europe before. I'm torn between watching that and the Bowie night on BBC4...

 

 I'm going for Bowie,that Dimbelbys a bit to rock and roll now in fact he's become a rebel rebel!

[Guest MattP]

When did Question Time go to the USA?

[The Blur]

There is currently a funny side-plot going on at the moment amongst all this funeral arrangements. ANC appointed a sign language interpreter at the funeral for all speeches but when all deaf people tuned in, it was clear that he was a fake and was just making up signs. Today, he claimed he is a schizophrenia and was seeing angels at the time of the interpreting hence his odd signs!

 

Link if anyone is interested

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nelson-mandela/10513199/Fake-interpreter-claims-he-had-visions-of-angels-during-Nelson-Mandela-memorial.html

[Guest MattP]

The Panel for tonight's Question Time on the BBC's Mandelathon.

 

 On the panel are foreign minister in the last apartheid government Pik Botha, former host of the South African version of The Apprentice and ANC leader imprisoned on Robben Island with Mandela, Tokyo Sexwale, leading anti-apartheid campaigner Peter Hain MP, the parliamentary leader of the opposition Democratic Alliance party, Lindiwe Mazibuko, radical black consciousness activist Andile Mngxitama, and the journalist Eusebius McKeiser

 

A fair and balanced panel, shame Eugene Terrablanche was murdered or I'm sure he would have got the call, surprised Winnie Mandela turned them down.

 

Anyone else considered being a radical black consciousness activist as a career choice?

[Webbo]

The Panel for tonight's Question Time on the BBC's Mandelathon.

 

 

A fair and balanced panel, shame Eugene Terrablanche was murdered or I'm sure he would have got the call, surprised Winnie Mandela turned them down.

 

Anyone else considered being a radical black consciousness activist as a career choice?

It's worth tuning in for if only to see Tokyo Sexwale.

[Corky]

It's worth tuning in for if only to see Tokyo Sexwale.

 

He's mates with Sepp:

 

[Guest MattP]

It's worth tuning in for if only to see Tokyo Sexwale.

 

The sign language version will be good.

 

Peter Hain talking with "the spaceship is buying crisps from the zoo" being relayed to the deaf.

[Webbo]

He's mates with Sepp:

 

Is that him? I thought he'd be a Japanese aquatic mammal with a huge cock.

[Guest MattP]

I take it back Alf.

 

This is fantastic, the ANC reps are being slaughtered by the whole audience. Next year's election could be very interesting, maybe Helen Zille has a chance.

 

I can't imagine the corruption that was needed to see Zuma home last time.

 

You can why the place is in such a mess with this black girl being an advisor to the President.

[Guest ttfn]

Bring out the Sexwale.

that beret

[Guest ttfn]

Fvck me this chat about land redistribution is a bit tasty.

It's going to be a massive effort to hold this country together without Mandela.

[lavrentis]

I saw Eastenders last week & they managed to shoehorn Mandela's death into that.  Given that Eastenders is filmed months in advance, I thought it piss poor that they had filmed a scene in preparation for his death.  Why bother?  As if it isn't miserable enough already?

 

They couldn't predetermine the circumstances of his death, so had two actors staring aimlessly at a front page headline of the Walford Gazette stating that Mandela had died.  Proper thought provoking it was.

 

 

 !

 

First time i've seen an Eastenders clip in years, such terrible acting and such a terrible terrible show for a multitude of reasons.

[Guest MattP]

Fvck me this chat about land redistribution is a bit tasty.

Mots going to be a massive effort to hold this country together without Mandela.

 

That actually scared me. "We're going to do what Mugabe did"

 

What a weakling Peter Hain is, mentioned Zimbabwe's land grab policy and didn't dare mention the murder that went with it right after he brought up Stephen Lawrence.

[Guest ttfn]

That actually scared me. "We're going to do what Mugabe did"

What a weakling Peter Hain is, mentioned Zimbabwe's land grab policy and didn't dare mention the murder that went with it right after he brought up Stephen Lawrence.

It's getting worse.

That this chap with the hat has been allowed on is frightening.

[Guest ttfn]

The lady in the red dress is very sensible and incredibly eloquent.

Almost makes the whole thing worthwhile. Almost.

[Guest MattP]

It's getting worse.

That this chap with the hat has been allowed on is frightening.

 

Started interesting as well didn't it, developing in a bit of a farce, can't see any hope.

 

He's argubly the most militant black I've ever seen, I dread to think what his actual opinions would be if these are the ones he shares in public.

Bringing up Stephen Lawrence has become the new Godwin's Law.

[Guest MattP]

Here we go.

 

Reperations and deportations, was only a matter of time.

 

Could end in a riot this.

[Alf Bentley]

The race thing was a more a comparison to Bush and Obama, both a pair of warmongerer cnuts who will drop a bomb anywhere. One is loved. Though that bizarrly goes for the whole World as well.

 

Maybe Zuma was being booed though for being not black enough? I think they probably want a Mugabe type, the crowd in there seemed a very young extreme ANC lot and according to a few sources not in the mainstream media "shoot the boer" was being sung more than once, you could see the desperation in the camerman trying to find white faces in the crowd that weren't Chinese tourists or Western statespersons.

 

Cameron got nothing, clearly had no idea who he was.

 

Didn't see the coverage myself (too busy working - TPH would approve!), but ABC suggests that while Zuma was booed, De Klerk got a good reception. Zuma may not be as black as Mugabe, but he's certainly blacker than De Klerk!

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/south-african-president-booed-mandela-memorial-21162163

 

I'm torn between watching that and the Bowie night on BBC4...

 

 I'm going for Bowie,that Dimbelbys a bit to rock and roll now in fact he's become a rebel rebel!

 

Probably would've done the same, John, but I cocked it up - Bowie night is tonight (Friday)! Looks good!

 

When did Question Time go to the USA?

 

May have cocked this up, too. There was definitely some sort of QT-type programme, with a panel, during the US Presidential election, but it may not have been a proper QT with a Joe/Josephine Public audience...

 

I take it back Alf.

 

This is fantastic, the ANC reps are being slaughtered by the whole audience. [...]

I can't imagine the corruption that was needed to see Zuma home last time.

 

You can why the place is in such a mess with this black girl being an advisor to the President.

 

Thanks for the "taking back". I reckon the BBC deserve a lot of credit for getting a decent debate together on foreign territory and at short notice (though maybe they'd pre-prepared, being cynical). Missed some of it through my own fault (late back from pub) and some through my missus bending my ear. The bald journalist was definitely the one that I warmed to the most. Most of the others were no better nor worse than UK politicians....with the exception of the bloodthirsty Trotskyist in the red beret. Pik Botha was a little false and slimy, too, though credit to him for sticking with it....see below for Hain!

 

That actually scared me. "We're going to do what Mugabe did"

 

What a weakling Peter Hain is, mentioned Zimbabwe's land grab policy and didn't dare mention the murder that went with it right after he brought up Stephen Lawrence.

 

Completely agree about Hain - sad to see because, whatever you think of the bloke, he has a genuine and brave long-term history in fighting white tyranny in South Africa dating back to 1970 or earlier, when it wasn't trendy...so to see him being equivocal about black tyranny in Zimbabwe was a sad sight. I suppose he's been a UK politician for most of his life, now...

 

The red-beret man was a nightmare, but quite right to give him a "platform", just as the BBC was right to have Nick Griffin on - when minority extremists develop a certain amount of support, better to give them airtime and a quizzing so that they can hang themselves (metaphorically) rather than exclude them and turn them into martyrs.

 

 

Watched "This Week" afterwards....wouldn't politics and political debate be a better place if the "This Week" team replaced the incumbents? Replace Cameron with Portillo, Milliband with Alan Johnson and the pantomime artiste Paxman with Andrew Neill. The world would be a better, more open, more honest, more intelligent place, I tell you! Johnson, in particular...why did he bottle out? Imagine, now, with slimeball Cameron, how well that rare thing a human politician might have gone down? Shame!

 

If they could also arrange for that Miranda, the token Lib Dem person, to cast a bolder profile, I'd be very happy (please view that as a sexual, not a sexist comment - I cast no aspersions about her abilities as a commentator (neither exceptionally good nor exceptionally bad, I think), it's just that my interest tends to focus on her magnificent silhouette and lively physicality).

[Guest MattP]

Thanks for the "taking back". I reckon the BBC deserve a lot of credit for getting a decent debate together on foreign territory and at short notice (though maybe they'd pre-prepared, being cynical). Missed some of it through my own fault (late back from pub) and some through my missus bending my ear. The bald journalist was definitely the one that I warmed to the most. Most of the others were no better nor worse than UK politicians....with the exception of the bloodthirsty Trotskyist in the red beret. Pik Botha was a little false and slimy, too, though credit to him for sticking with it....see below for Hain!

 

Completely agree about Hain - sad to see because, whatever you think of the bloke, he has a genuine and brave long-term history in fighting white tyranny in South Africa dating back to 1970 or earlier, when it wasn't trendy...so to see him being equivocal about black tyranny in Zimbabwe was a sad sight. I suppose he's been a UK politician for most of his life, now...

 

The red-beret man was a nightmare, but quite right to give him a "platform", just as the BBC was right to have Nick Griffin on - when minority extremists develop a certain amount of support, better to give them airtime and a quizzing so that they can hang themselves (metaphorically) rather than exclude them and turn them into martyrs.

 

Watched "This Week" afterwards....wouldn't politics and political debate be a better place if the "This Week" team replaced the incumbents? Replace Cameron with Portillo, Milliband with Alan Johnson and the pantomime artiste Paxman with Andrew Neill. The world would be a better, more open, more honest, more intelligent place, I tell you! Johnson, in particular...why did he bottle out? Imagine, now, with slimeball Cameron, how well that rare thing a human politician might have gone down? Shame!

 

If they could also arrange for that Miranda, the token Lib Dem person, to cast a bolder profile, I'd be very happy (please view that as a sexual, not a sexist comment - I cast no aspersions about her abilities as a commentator (neither exceptionally good nor exceptionally bad, I think), it's just that my interest tends to focus on her magnificent silhouette and lively physicality).

 

Hain looked a bit bemused half the time, I think he was expecting more applause, most of what he said would have gone down a treat with a young, white BBC audience, the Africans seemed to brush it off as someone talking about something he knows little about.

 

Don't think you can compare the treatement of Red Beret man to Griffin, both are probably violent militants if they ever got power but one was given a fair platform and one was the victim of a co-ordinated witchhunt in which for one night only they changed the whole format of the show just to take it in turns to take a pop at someone who was upsetting the establishment.

 

I've often said Portillo would have been a fantastic leader, his homosexuality wouldn't have been a problem either would it? Well, it wasn't for William Hague.   

[sphericalfox]

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/12/06-0

[Vacamion]

I've often said Portillo would have been a fantastic leader, his homosexuality wouldn't have been a problem either would it? Well, it wasn't for William Hague. 

 

 

The other day I googled Hague and it did the whole Google thing of guessing what you are about to write

 

"William Hague Rumours" was near the top of the list, just below "WIlliam Hague Baseball Cap".

 

I bet he loves that.