Mandela

[Vacamion]

To the bloke who said 'shame', my post was about my regret at the rent a grief post-Diana liverpudlianisation of the media, and their pre-prepared memorial pieces, not about the life and works of NM.

By howling 'shame', you appear to have been sucked up by the orchestrated reaction to his death.

Shame right back atcha...

[Trav Le Bleu]

He was a terrorist but remember at the time blacks in SA weren't even allowed a vote. They Were brutalized and murdered by the police . Terrorism was their only outlet for change.

 

 

We shouldn't gloss over the bad things he did, but they should be recognised within the context in which he did them. Today is the day to remember the good things he did, and not be all edgy posting controversial comments to get a reaction.

 

“I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.†

― Nelson Mandela

 

Yes context, but then there's also perpective and viewpoint. The old "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" argument. With some of the things that the British have done in Ireland (I say this because Scottish and Welsh regiments were involved too) there probably wasn't such an outcry of grief when Michael Collins or Eamon de Valera died.

 

I feel that if it were closer to home, people would feel different. Young people who know nothing of the ANC's earlier days (I wasn't alive then either, but hey kids, theres this thing called "history" that many of you seem to love ignoring) and it certainly isn't being brought up in the news. (Why is it that we must only speak well of people when they're dead? Does this apply to Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot?) It's difficult to ever be truly unbiased.

 

Having said that, it's not how you start, but how you finish that counts. I have read elsewhere him being described as "the unofficial president of the world", which is pushing it a bit. He certainly did a lot for black South Africans. Whether he changed the world ouside of there much, I have my doubts.

[Bellend Sebastian]

He was a black man, apparently.

 

You really do live and learn

[Captain...]

To the bloke who said 'shame', my post was about my regret at the rent a grief post-Diana liverpudlianisation of the media, and their pre-prepared memorial pieces, not about the life and works of NM.

By howling 'shame', you appear to have been sucked up by the orchestrated reaction to his death.

Shame right back atcha...

 

The missus works in internal communications, and apparently has had the Mandela obit since June, just waiting to fill in the final date and then it's ready to go.

 

Not sure if that's efficient or tasteless, probably both. 

[Captain...]

Yes context, but then there's also perpective and viewpoint. The old "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" argument. With some of the things that the British have done in Ireland (I say this because Scottish and Welsh regiments were involved too) there probably wasn't such an outcry of grief when Michael Collins or Eamon de Valera died.

 

I feel that if it were closer to home, people would feel different. Young people who know nothing of the ANC's earlier days (I wasn't alive then either, but hey kids, theres this thing called "history" that many of you seem to love ignoring) and it certainly isn't being brought up in the news. (Why is it that we must only speak well of people when they're dead? Does this apply to Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot?) It's difficult to ever be truly unbiased.

 

I don't think we should only speak well of the dead, but I do think that while they are still warm, it is a time for respect.

[Zingari]

The missus works in internal communications, and apparently has had the Mandela obit since June, just waiting to fill in the final date and then it's ready to go.

 

Not sure if that's efficient or tasteless, probably both. 

i think this applies to a lot of older famous people .

the queen mother had hers written about 30 years ago i'm told .( probably not true though)

[Trav Le Bleu]

I don't think we should only speak well of the dead, but I do think that while they are still warm, it is a time for respect.

 

I don't buy that either, it smacks of superstious belief that the dead are aware of the living world. Of course, if you're commenting somewhere where people who were close to someone recently deceased are likely to see it, then you wouldn't - just the same as if you were physically amongst them (which is something I think a lot of people haven't quite twigged with social media). That's not likely to happen here though.

[Webbo]

Bit overrated if you ask me. He basically failed badly and got thrown in jail. Only a global movement that was completely external and independent from his efforts brought him back into the frame. He became a poster boy for a new global racial consciousness, which is great and something we should celebrate of course, but to give Mandela all the credit is a bit much. He didn't really do anything, he was just the grandson of a king fighting to get his power back.

There's a lot in what you say but it wasn't just his time in prison that made his name but his part in the peaceful transition of power from white to blacks and his efforts to unify the nation.

 

I'm not some soppy Guardian reader, I know there's a lot wrong with SA but it's a lot better than it could  be.

[Zingari]

There's a lot in what you say but it wasn't just his time in prison that made his name but his part in the peaceful transition of power from white to blacks and his efforts to unify the nation.

 

I'm not some soppy Guardian reader, I know there's a lot wrong with SA but it's a lot better than it could  be.

Well you've fooled me all this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Captain...]

I don't buy that either, it smacks of superstious belief that the dead are aware of the living world. Of course, if you're commenting somewhere where people who were close to someone recently deceased are likely to see it, then you wouldn't - just the same as if you were physically amongst them (which is something I think a lot of people haven't quite twigged with social media). That's not likely to happen here though.

 

Nothing to do with superstition, I was referring to the media output more so than on here, you commented on how his "terrorist" past wasn't being mentioned on the news today, and I think that's correct as it is a national broadcast and you have no idea who might be listening and how the news has affected them.

[Jon the Hat]

Bit overrated if you ask me. He basically failed badly and got thrown in jail. Only a global movement that was completely external and independent from his efforts brought him back into the frame. He became a poster boy for a new global racial consciousness, which is great and something we should celebrate of course, but to give Mandela all the credit is a bit much. He didn't really do anything, he was just the grandson of a king fighting to get his power back.

 

You are right that we was the poster boy, but his part in the negotiations and his natural leadership skills also played a big part in the relative stability of the transition of power.  It could have been a complete bloodbath. 

[Strokes]

You have to admire what he achieved, even if you don't agree with how it all started. Hopefully he will be remembered in the light he deserved, an inspiration to human kind.

[Rincewind]

I know this person. She is a wonderful caring person.

 

https://www.facebook.com/chloe.camarthan

[MooseBreath]

Talking about having a minute's applause at football grounds tomorrow now.... Way too much, even a bit weird to go that far

[Jon the Hat]

Talking about having a minute's applause at football grounds tomorrow now.... Way too much, even a bit weird to go that far

 

He doesn't have a lot to do with football.

[Rincewind]

Kick racism out of football?

[The Blur]

I know this person. She is a wonderful caring person.

 

https://www.facebook.com/chloe.camarthan

 

 

I don't know what is more random your post or the fact you have facebook! 

[Bellend Sebastian]

He doesn't have a lot to do with football.

 

What about Mandela Utd FC?

 

In fairness, I'm not sure they ever played football - the emphasis seemed to be less about the beautiful game, and more about kidnapping and dishing out kickings to Winnie's enemies.  I'm not sure they even had any boots.

 

Lovely woman, got a lot of time for her

[MooseBreath]

I know this person. She is a wonderful caring person.

https://www.facebook.com/chloe.camarthan

Ken's in love! He's so brimming with love for this woman that just knowing her is a fact he can't keep to himself. Kenbo you old romantic. Write her a poem.

[Guest MattP]

What about Mandela Utd FC?

In fairness, I'm not sure they ever played football - the emphasis seemed to be less about the beautiful game, and more about kidnapping and dishing out kickings to Winnie's enemies. I'm not sure they even had any boots.

Lovely woman, got a lot of time for her

Justice for Stompie.

[Zingari]

What about Mandela Utd FC?

 

In fairness, I'm not sure they ever played football - the emphasis seemed to be less about the beautiful game, and more about kidnapping and dishing out kickings to Winnie's enemies.  I'm not sure they even had any boots.

 

Lovely woman, got a lot of time for her

blimey yes , i'd forgotten all about that !

[Bellend Sebastian]

In fairness to Winnie, it can't be easy to spend that much of your marriage with your other half inside.

 

I mean, I've seen Birds of a Feather, and look at the scrapes they got themselves into!

 

Dorian!

[DennisNedry]

JOHN - Me, my family/friends, and this country, have been made no better in any way shape or form by Mandela.

 

Let South Africa make a big deal of it certainly, but he's got **** all to do with us. On that note, South Africa is as big a shithole as it was when he took the presidency. Yes there's racial equality, but it's still a starving, corrupt dump.

 

That's why the media annoy me going on about it all day - especially when something relevant to the country (Norfolk floods) gets ignored.

[ADK]

We wouldn't have Nelson Mandela park.

[pSinatra]

We wouldn't have Nelson Mandela park.

 

The Trotters wouldn't have Nelson Mandella House