Rincewind Posted 10 December 2013 Author Posted 10 December 2013 What else are they going to do with them, how are they going to pay the mortgage with nobody paying rent? exactly which is why I said understanderbly. Not everyone has the mental capacity to manage their finances which means if money is available diect to them they will spend it rather than put it aside for the rent. No provision is in place for this eventualality.Even landlords are against the UC.
Guest MattP Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 exactly which is why I said understanderbly. Not everyone has the mental capacity to manage their finances which means if money is available diect to them they will spend it rather than put it aside for the rent. No provision is in place for this eventualality.Even landlords are against the UC. Well if thats the case why dont we tax the bankers at 80% so we can give people who need houses so much money they wont even be able to spend it before the landlords come knocking?
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 If people have enough money available to them to meet their costs of living but misspend it and end up not being able to pay for some of these costs then you have to blame them to an extent. I understand people can make mistakes but they do have to take some responsibility for their actions, you can't keep giving them more money unfortunately, if they have enough they have enough.
Guest MattP Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 If people have enough money available to them to meet their costs of living but misspend it and end up not being able to pay for some of these costs then you have to blame them to an extent. I understand people can make mistakes but they do have to take some responsibility for their actions, you can't keep giving them more money unfortunately, if they have enough they have enough. That's quite heartening to read. A growing number of people have seemed to be heading towards a thought of opinion where someone spending the rent money they have been given by the taxpayer on something else isnt actually considered their responsibility anymore.
The God Emperor Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 If people have enough money available to them to meet their costs of living but misspend it and end up not being able to pay for some of these costs then you have to blame them to an extent. I understand people can make mistakes but they do have to take some responsibility for their actions, you can't keep giving them more money unfortunately, if they have enough they have enough. some of these people will have mental illnesses which makes it harder for them to make smart choices. But if that's the case then they should have some sort of care/family to assist them. alot of people probably are just idiots but this is the outcome of a system that subsidises poor decision making and taxes good decision making
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 Yeah I'd make exception for those with genuine difficulties of course. I actually love the notion of welfare personally, I agree it does result in the wrong sort of incentives but the idea that society provides a basic standard of living for everyone is something that really appeals to me. It does require limits of course.
The God Emperor Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 Yeah I'd make exception for those with genuine difficulties of course. I actually love the notion of welfare personally, I agree it does result in the wrong sort of incentives but the idea that society provides a basic standard of living for everyone is something that really appeals to me. It does require limits of course. you can have as big a welfare state as like but it wont make a difference if you fall at the first hurdle, which is to provide people with a sound currency. this is what we have failed spectacularly to do. prices are constantly going up and the purchasing power of wages is being eroded with all this irresponsible quantitative easing being used to pay for frivolous wars and unnecessary welfare programs. like I said in another thread, the value of the pound has decreased by 97% since we abandoned the gold standard. would families on low incomes require welfare if their money could go 97% further? would middle income families require 2 incomes per household if the money they were being paid in was sound? its a great gig the politicians have, promise a free lunch to get elected, pay for said free lunch with printed money and then in a couple of years when the inflation hits everyone blames the local supermarket for putting their prices up.
Guest MattP Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 Nothing to Lose Got nothing to lose? Then get on the booze, And Walk in my shoes, Treated worse than the Jews. Money from queues, To get my tattoos, Charity event to choose, I'll do Not the big snooze. Here's Simon Hughes, He's always peruse, Like Al Murray on booze He was never confused. Can't sell the Big Issue, As I don't worship Vishnu, Flat went to pirate Rishu Cus he's from Mogadishu. So its Universal Credit, These landlords they dread it A letter said I;d get it But of course I've not read it. So leave me alone, At this mouth I will foam, I'm not fit for a home, I;m ready to groan.
MooseBreath Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 you can have as big a welfare state as like but it wont make a difference if you fall at the first hurdle, which is to provide people with a sound currency. this is what we have failed spectacularly to do. prices are constantly going up and the purchasing power of wages is being eroded with all this irresponsible quantitative easing being used to pay for frivolous wars and unnecessary welfare programs. like I said in another thread, the value of the pound has decreased by 97% since we abandoned the gold standard. would families on low incomes require welfare if their money could go 97% further? would middle income families require 2 incomes per household if the money they were being paid in was sound? its a great gig the politicians have, promise a free lunch to get elected, pay for said free lunch with printed money and then in a couple of years when the inflation hits everyone blames the local supermarket for putting their prices up. You sound like you've been reading those crazy economic doom websites. They're all full of crap mate. Read some respectable material from time to time.
The God Emperor Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 You sound like you've been reading those crazy economic doom websites. They're all full of crap mate. Read some respectable material from time to time. I have read 'respectable material'. I dont read economic doom sites, we're not doomed there are alternatives available to make a possible collapse not a huge disaster. I just dont see how devaluing our currency has done us an awful lot of good.
MooseBreath Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 I have read 'respectable material'. I dont read economic doom sites, we're not doomed there are alternatives available to make a possible collapse not a huge disaster. I just dont see how devaluing our currency has done us an awful lot of good. Well the gold standard thing is just nonsense. Quantitative easing in its current form shouldn't cause excessive inflation because all the money is returned with interest. If anything theoretically it could cause deflation.
The God Emperor Posted 10 December 2013 Posted 10 December 2013 Well the gold standard thing is just nonsense. Quantitative easing in its current form shouldn't cause excessive inflation because all the money is returned with interest. If anything theoretically it could cause deflation. your right there, a return to the gold standard would be neither possible or desirable today. it is causing inflation and its having an effect. take petrol for example, in pounds it price is going up, but if you bought it in silver or bitcoins (not the best example due to the bubble state its in) its never been cheaper.
Rincewind Posted 11 December 2013 Author Posted 11 December 2013 If I was to have an operation I would much rather a qualified surgeon with experience did it rather than someone who overheard the procedures of the operation from a third party. There are plenty of sites giving facts and figures from people working within services dealing with vulnerable people. I work with people who have been homeless for various reasons ranging from domestic violence to depression. They have stayed in hostels and shared accomandation and are now trying to prevent it happening to others by giving advice, training in various areas and a helping hand when needed. Unless you see these things happening first hand it is hard to understand them. Politicians, not just the present government do not come into contact with people at the lower end of the social ladder. The low paid workers etc. How can they have empathy if they do not experience what is happening? That is all I have to say.
The People's Hero Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 Of course you can have empathy without experiencing something yourself. Or have you ever been homeless Rincewind? If not, by your logic you cannot empathise and are therefore a fraud.
cambridgefox Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 If I was to have an operation I would much rather a qualified surgeon with experience did it rather than someone who overheard the procedures of the operation from a third party. There are plenty of sites giving facts and figures from people working within services dealing with vulnerable people. I work with people who have been homeless for various reasons ranging from domestic violence to depression. They have stayed in hostels and shared accomandation and are now trying to prevent it happening to others by giving advice, training in various areas and a helping hand when needed. Unless you see these things happening first hand it is hard to understand them. Politicians, not just the present government do not come into contact with people at the lower end of the social ladder. The low paid workers etc. How can they have empathy if they do not experience what is happening? That is all I have to say. Did you listen to the Radio 4 play Ken?
Rincewind Posted 11 December 2013 Author Posted 11 December 2013 Not yet. I have it on my bookmarks on my tablet/
MPH Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 Quite like the American way of doing things in this case. People can get help with accommodation costs but other money they are given goes onto their EBT card. Works like a debit card. Also called food stamps by some and can only be spent on necessities. Like food. It won't work for cigarettes and alcohol.
MPH Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 Not yet. I have it on my bookmarks on my tablet/ Your tablet? Blimey ken you have dropped a changer there, mate. If you can afford a tablet that puts you in the richest 0.5% of the world's population. Not even all tory supporters can afford tablets..
purpleronnie Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 I think he meant he wrote down the web address on his pack of viagra tablets.
MooseBreath Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 It's funny really Woww so many cuts. No money wow. Have to spend days writing poetry on tablet. I am so slave. Just like 3rd world poverty. Eat or heat, after tablet, after no job, still eat or heat, legitimate calculations, honest calculations, trust me, I have compassion poem on tablet I read out on the panga fanga radio 2pm - 4pm. Doing my bit. Hard, struggling wow. Off to the pub.
RobHawk Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 It's funny really Woww so many cuts. No money wow. Have to spend days writing poetry on tablet. I am so slave. Just like 3rd world poverty. Eat or heat, after tablet, after no job, still eat or heat, legitimate calculations, honest calculations, trust me, I have compassion poem on tablet I read out on the panga fanga radio 2pm - 4pm. Doing my bit. Hard, struggling wow. Off to the pub. I'd love to know what your problem is with Ken? A retired man having a pint down the pub or buying a tablet - Whats wrong with that? So he likes banging on about benefits and the homeless - maybe that's because he's witnessed how hard it really can be! Our society and benefit systems aren't perfect and i for one love reading through the thoughts and discussions on here!We all have different views and ideas and that should be celebrated. But you seem to love making it more personal and there really is no need.
MooseBreath Posted 11 December 2013 Posted 11 December 2013 I'd love to know what your problem is with Ken? A retired man having a pint down the pub or buying a tablet - Whats wrong with that? So he likes banging on about benefits and the homeless - maybe that's because he's witnessed how hard it really can be! Our society and benefit systems aren't perfect and i for one love reading through the thoughts and discussions on here!We all have different views and ideas and that should be celebrated. But you seem to love making it more personal and there really is no need. I guess it's because Kens charmed tax-payer funded lifestyle stands as irrefutable evidence that his claims of hardship are nonsense. His lifestyle disproves his own point. Besides, if Ken is in any way annoyed at his lifestyle being used as an example, he could always stop posting every detail, or stop being so preachy, or just mention that he doesn't like it. He does none of those things, and he obviously loves the attention, so I wouldn't bother yourself getting upset on his behalf
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