AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 FAO Churchill Kids love the pyro!! Exhibit A - FC Wacker Innsbruck (crouching down for a chant) Ten minutes earlier..... Exhibit B - OFI Crete, the two young lads (one very young!) in this picture could not be more in the middle of it if they tried! Ten minutes later...... On my iphone, hope that's worked
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 For every silver lining, there is a cloud. Speaking of Wacker Innsbruck and pyrotechnics: A police officer has been injured on Saturday during the Bundesliga match against Red Bull Salzburg Wacker Innsbruck at the stadium in Wals . According to security directorate , there was a " massive pyrotechnics abuse" . A Wacker fan should have a shot at officers targeted with a firecracker. " The policeman suffered second-degree burns in the shoulder area ," a spokesman said Sunday . The tumultuous scenes have taken place in the second half. 98 fans who had traveled in two buses from Tyrol came too late to the stadium , as they are in an identity and pyrotechnics control in a car park off the A10 in Glanegg " not very cooperative behaved ," said the police. When checking 214 firecrackers , 23 Bengal and eight smoke bodies were confiscated. Fans wanted by force into the stadium Part of the group then tried force their way into the stadium . They were supported by fans who had been waiting for . When trying to tear barrier fence , four people suffered cuts. Subsequently, the police should have been thrown outside and inside the stadium with pyrotechnic articles . The images from the surveillance cameras need to be evaluated , so for the time being charges have been filed against unknown perpetrators. " It looks that targeted signal devices have been used against police officers ," said the police spokesman . The toilet facilities in the guest - fan sector were also " totally demolished " , informed the Security Directorate . There had been quite a few ads . Nearly 200 police officers were deployed . http://www.krone.at/Sport/Wildes_West-Derby_Wacker-Innsbruck-Fan_verletzt_Polizist-Pyro-Attacke-Story-317641 (Translation courtesy of Google Translate)
Churchill Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 FAO Churchill On my iphone, hope that's worked Looking at them pictures there are two lads ( who look like they know what there doing and have not had 5-6 pints before hand ) using pyro at the front and dont intend to chuck them at anyone so wouldnt say they were in the thick of it. I get your point maybe they can be used safely but whenever ive seen one get lit its in the middle of fans who probably dont want to be next to it and then it gets thrown around like a toy, still the facts are there they are dangerous and are a hazard to some peoples health.
Bert Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Have a look in the 'N block flare' thread for my post with pictures of games I've been too in the middle of the ultras sections with kids standing right next to me.They live in a totally different culture and mentality though. In Britain we live in a world where health and safety has gone mad. Everything has to have a risk assessment in Britain these days. That culture will never, ever change. There's always going to be someone that complains about something like this (rightly so in this instance - anywhere else in the ground there wouldn't be this furore.) and whilst that continues, authorities are always going to pander to one individual moan in fear of people not returning, or being sued etc. Like that or not, it's the state of the country today.
Babylon Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 FAO Churchill On my iphone, hope that's worked I used to like shooting rockets out of my bare hands when I was a kid, doesn't mean I was correct to do so. I wasn't, it was fecking stupid. Kids might very well like smoke and flames, and sparklers, but it is the parents decision as to whether they are exposed to it. By some prat doing it in the family stand, that right is taken away. And for every kid loving it, there will be another scared to bloody death.
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 They live in a totally different culture and mentality though. In Britain we live in a world where health and safety has gone mad. Everything has to have a risk assessment in Britain these days. That culture will never, ever change. There's always going to be someone that complains about something like this (rightly so in this instance - anywhere else in the ground there wouldn't be this furore.) and whilst that continues, authorities are always going to pander to one individual moan in fear of people not returning, or being sued etc. Like that or not, it's the state of the country today. Yeah exactly, which at the end of the day is what annoys me! Not that we can't light thousands of flares every game! Football is about fun for me, and maybe getting a bit of an adrenalin rush and a bit of danger is what I like. And I might seem weird to English football fans but trust me, I'm not the weird one in every other country in the world!
C-man Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 I used to like shooting rockets out of my bare hands when I was a kid, doesn't mean I was correct to do so. I wasn't, it was fecking stupid. Kids might very well like smoke and flames, and sparklers, but it is the parents decision as to whether they are exposed to it. By some prat doing it in the family stand, that right is taken away. And for every kid loving it, there will be another scared to bloody death. Exactly. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of pyrotechnic-related arrests over the last couple of years would be that of 15-24 year olds. These lads don't need telling they are 'dickheads/idiots etc', they need educating about the risks etc. The facts are the FA and Police have absolutely no idea why the sudden increase in use has occurred and what they can do to stop it. Rather than issuing banning orders, prison terms etc they should be opening a dialogue with fans to understand what is going through their mind and how they can bring about change. Pyrotechnic use isn't going to go away soon and banning every fvcker who dabbles with them is just going to throw away another generation of supporters.
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 I used to like shooting rockets out of my bare hands when I was a kid, doesn't mean I was correct to do so. I wasn't, it was fecking stupid. Kids might very well like smoke and flames, and sparklers, but it is the parents decision as to whether they are exposed to it. By some prat doing it in the family stand, that right is taken away. And for every kid loving it, there will be another scared to bloody death. I agree, that smoke bomb should not have been lit in the family stand. In Europe all fan types are catered for. So people know exactly where to go for what they want. It's no coincidence that all over the world these sections are the busiest.
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Yeah exactly, which at the end of the day is what annoys me! Not that we can't light thousands of flares every game! Football is about fun for me, and maybe getting a bit of an adrenalin rush and a bit of danger is what I like. And I might seem weird to English football fans but trust me, I'm not the weird one in every other country in the world! I understand the "fun" part, but with your like for danger and adrenaline, you're treading on dangerous grounds. And not just in England. And how many other countries have you visited for football? To me, it seems you're exaggerating not just a little.
AKCJ Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Yeah exactly, which at the end of the day is what annoys me! Not that we can't light thousands of flares every game! Football is about fun for me, and maybe getting a bit of an adrenalin rush and a bit of danger is what I like. And I might seem weird to English football fans but trust me, I'm not the weird one in every other country in the world! But, we're not "every country n the world". Flares are banned in this country and I don't want one set off near me. End of. If you think the only way to get an atmosphere going is to make a bit of smoke and bright light then I feel sorry for you.
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 I understand the "fun" part, but with your like for danger and adrenaline, you're treading on dangerous grounds. And not just in England. And how many other countries have you visited for football? To me, it seems you're exaggerating not just a little. Where have I exaggerated anything? I find European fan culture very interesting and always keep an eye on what's happening. I've been to 8 German games, 1 in Austria, 1 in Bulgaria and 1 in Greece. I've got tickets and pictures to prove it if you want!
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 But, we're not "every country n the world". Flares are banned in this country and I don't want one set off near me. End of. If you think the only way to get an atmosphere going is to make a bit of smoke and bright light then I feel sorry for you. No need to feel sorry for me because I don't think that's the only way to get an atmosphere and I have never stated such a thing.
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Where have I exaggerated anything? I find European fan culture very interesting and always keep an eye on what's happening. I've been to 8 German games, 1 in Austria, 1 in Bulgaria and 1 in Greece. I've got tickets and pictures to prove it if you want! I'm talking about your generalizations. So you've been to eight games in total in Germany over the years, one in Austria, one in Bulgaria and one in Greece (Crete). How are those games representative of the whole football culture on the continent or in each respective country exactly? You pick and choose single games. I'd even go a step further and claim you just go to games that offer a lot of fireworks, because you like the thrill of being in the midst of it. But those games do not represent the (vast) majority of all games per season, no matter in what league.
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 I'm talking about your generalizations. So you've been to eight games in total in Germany over the years, one in Austria, one in Bulgaria and one in Greece (Crete). How are those games representative of the whole football culture on the continent or in each respective country exactly? You pick and choose single games. I'd even go a step further and claim you just go to games that offer a lot of fireworks, because you like the thrill of being in the midst of it. But those games do not represent the (vast) majority of all games per season, no matter in what league. Ofi and Innsbruck are tame for their country's standard. Your right, they don't represent the whole continent, but my first hand experience coupled with an interest in fan culture gives me a better scope than most to discuss it. I have literally completely forgot what we even started talking about!
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Ofi and Innsbruck are tame for their country's standard. Your right, they don't represent the whole continent, but my first hand experience coupled with an interest in fan culture gives me a better scope than most to discuss it. I have literally completely forgot what we even started talking about! The general acceptance of flares and smoke bombs at football matches. All in all, I understand that you are an admirer of pyrotechnics. That's ok. I'm not debating that. What I find odd is that you're painting a rosy picture of the European fan scene on the continent when it comes to fireworks at football matches. They are isolated events that occur every once in a while, but they are not the norm. Yes, they may be part of the culture abroad. But it doesn't mean they're as widely accepted in countries as Germany or Austria, as you'd like us all to believe. If they were, they wouldn't be banned/illegal.
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Has anyone ever thrown a flare or smoke bomb at a Leicester game and not gotten either themselves or someone else evicted? Why would you even chance it when they have basically no effect on the atmosphere. You want atmosphere, sing and shout. You want fireworks, go Ally Pally. Honestly don't get the pyro obsession. If you've got loads coordinated then fair play but if you're just a teenager pretending to be a Neapolitan ultra you need to grow the **** up.
Renart Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Where have I exaggerated anything? I find European fan culture very interesting and always keep an eye on what's happening. I've been to 8 German games, 1 in Austria, 1 in Bulgaria and 1 in Greece. I've got tickets and pictures to prove it if you want! Oooo! I would like to see your pics! We could all get together for a nice glass of wine and a slide show. I will dust off the old projector. MC can bring the nibbles and you can bring the pictures and the fun football stories. Shall we say Thursday at 19:45?
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 The general acceptance of flares and smoke bombs at football matches. Oh yeah, well I wish clubs in the UK could cater for all types of fans, so if people wanted to act like prats they can and if they want to sit down and watch the football with their kids they can. And everything in between. Obviously that will never happen, but I can dream.
Leicester_Loyal Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Go ahead, then give me another justification why people would go to such great lengths to smuggle illegal pyrotechnics into a stadium, only to let them off in a crowded area (with kids). Oh, "atmosphere"... Try again. Maybe they do see it is as atmosphere? Maybe they do it for a laugh? You'd have to ask them. PS. I think it is wrong that they were let off in a family area btw.
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 The general acceptance of flares and smoke bombs at football matches. All in all, I understand that you are an admirer of pyrotechnics. That's ok. I'm not debating that. What I find odd is that you're painting a rosy picture of the European fan scene on the continent when it comes to fireworks at football matches. They are isolated events that occur every once in a while, but they are not the norm. Yes, they may be part of the culture abroad. But it doesn't mean they're as widely accepted in countries as Germany or Austria, as you'd like us all to believe. If they were, they wouldn't be banned/illegal. With regards to flares being an isolated issue, you are wrong. Apart from Spain, Germany and the UK, flares are used on masse in every single other European country. I'm probably setting my self up to fail here, but give me a country that has at least a decent level of football and I guarantee I will be able to upload a picture with a pyro show from at least the last month (if they haven't had a winter break) if not the weekend just gone.
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 With regards to flares being an isolated issue, you are wrong. Apart from Spain, Germany and the UK, flares are used on masse in every single other European country. I'm probably setting my self up to fail here, but give me a country that has at least a decent level of football and I guarantee I will be able to upload a picture with a pyro show from at least the last month (if they haven't had a winter break) if not the weekend just gone. If you've got a decent level of football in a country, it has no correlation whatsoever to the use of pyrotechnics. I'm not sure what your point is.
Fatty Arbuckle Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 Bring back the days when our fans would settle on chucking harmless rolls of sandwich bags to improve the atmosphere quality!
AndWhat? Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 If you've got a decent level of football in a country, it has no correlation whatsoever to the use of pyrotechnics. I'm not sure what your point is. I just didn't want you to say Luxembourg or Andorra! Every major country in all of Europe, and most of the world have flares at most of their games. This is probably the only country in the world that gets so worked up over them! Either you don't realise the scale that they are used abroad or you are trying to play it down on purpose to support your argument.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 It's nearly 21 years since my mate sat out the play off semi final against Pompey in some sort of subterranean prison after being arrested for trying to sneak a smoke bomb into the City ground, poorly hidden in his slightly too tight jeans. The fact that people are persisting with this crap after so long makes me feel like time has stopped and I am now effectively immortal, and will never age, a bit like Cliff
MC Prussian Posted 27 January 2014 Posted 27 January 2014 I just didn't want you to say Luxembourg or Andorra! Every major country in all of Europe, and most of the world have flares at most of their games. This is probably the only country in the world that gets so worked up over them! Either you don't realise the scale that they are used abroad or you are trying to play it down on purpose to support your argument. Sadly, that is a claim that you cannot back up. For instance, pyrotechnics are banned in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. There is a lengthy documentation why that is: http://www.veko-online.de/index.php/archiv-hauptmenu/46-archiv-ausgabe-2-12/138-polizei-legalisierung-oder-verbot-von-pyrotechnik-in-fussballstadien (Use Google Translate to get the English version)
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