England V Italy

[StanSP]

Was it the midfields fault that Baines turned his back and jumped up in the air to block a cross that? That's embarrassing. His primary job is to defend. Too many people over hype him because he's got a decent whip on him. There's a reason why he was targeted. Because as a defender he's incompetent. I can't actually think of anything that Baines did was good?

 

No, but I already acknowledged that. I know that's bad. Agree that it's his job to defend but you'll see all across other teams that midfielders do and should lend their support to their full-backs. Baines was left on his own far too many times and Italy were constantly having 2 men on him, therefore making Baines work extra hard and tiring him out even more than usual. It also meant that he couldn't get up as often as we would have wanted him to and as a result, Baines was restricted and couldn't get as many crosses in like he's capable of. So as much as Baines probably played below-par, it's not like he even had many chances to shine anyway. Italy's plan was to crowd our left flank and it worked to perfection for them. They nullified the threat of Baines (his crossing pushing up to help our attacks). 

[Guest ttfn]

But he can't get forward, because he has no support. Watch when de laet bombs forward, knocks just drops back slightly and covers - baines just didn't get that from his winger today, he couldn't go forward because it'd leave the defence empty.

Sometimes Knockaert drops back, sometimes he doesn't but that's besides the point.

Having made the decision to travel with two attacking left backs Roy should be playing to their strengths

[Kitchandro]

Oh wise one..why do demean yourself and reply to morons?

 

Because alternative viewpoints need to be heard. Otherwise idiots will take too much satisfaction in being agreed with, and other idiots will just accept what everyone else says as fact.

[foxes_rule1978]

Tactical genius, intelligence... what !!! Italy's philosophy is defend and counter, works for certain Italian sides but this one is very poor. No pace or threat upfront... They got jammy and lucky

[StanSP]

Sometimes Knockaert drops back, sometimes he doesn't but that's besides the point.

Having made the decision to travel with two attacking left backs Roy should be playing to their strengths

 

How is it besides the point when the point is about full-backs getting support lol ?!

 

And it's hard to play to your strengths as an attacking full back when the opposition double up on you with 2 attacking players.

 

How is that so hard to see?!

[Bert]

You're giving him a 3 because he was trying to defend against 2 people. Not for any other reason.

It's funny how nobody ever gets noticed for not blocking a cross unless they need a reason to start rimming Ashley Cole. I see about 20 times a game yet nobody cares 99% of the time. Had Balotelli just missed it you wouldn't have even remembered it (if only Baines was as lucky as Cole was at times).

No. I've gave him a 3 because he was comfortably the worst player on the pitch and HIS mistake has cost us the game. Balotelli didn't miss, so what an utterly pointless argument that is. Tell me what Leighton Baines did well tonight?

[GingerrrFox]

No. I've gave him a 3 because he was comfortably the worst player on the pitch and his mistake has cost us the game. Balotelli didn't miss, so what an utterly pointless argument that is. Tell me what Leighton Baines did well tonight?

 

That is bollocks. Baines was hung out to dry by Welbeck not tracking his man and being left with a 2 on 1 down that left hand side. You cannot simply place the blame at Baines for that 2nd goal. He was in no man's land. 

[Bert]

That is bollocks. Baines was hung out to dry by Welbeck not tracking his man and being left with a 2 on 1 down that left hand side. You cannot simply place the blame at Baines for that 2nd goal. He was in no man's land.

Well that's exactly what I've done. If Baines stops the cross instead of turning his back and jumping we wouldn't be talking about this. Absolutely he was at fault for the goal.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'd be saying this no matter how many beers I've had, and it may be news to you but I've never given two shits if people on this forum don't agree. I think most people on here are absolute morons frankly, worshipping Terry and Cole like they've got us further than the quarter finals of a tournament or something.

 

What's hilarious is people maintaining certain players are world beaters when they've played at several tournaments for England and have failed several times. The facts don't stack up in their favour.

 

Besides, do people not think Woy would be an absolute cvnt if he picked players who have barely played for their clubs all year? Cos anyone with a brain would think that.

 

Nah, you quite often pipe up when pissed and vanish after, this will be no different.

[johnny the fox]

Tactical genius, intelligence... what !!! Italy's philosophy is defend and counter, works for certain Italian sides but this one is very poor. No pace or threat upfront... They got jammy and lucky

they did enough to beat us.. 

[City_4_Life]

After tonight i still think (hope) we will go through, there were some positives.

 

We looked good going forward at points, but shakey at the back. 

 

At least Uruguay lost which gives us a big chance, still a long way to go as they say.

[GingerrrFox]

Well that's exactly what I've done. If Baines stops the cross instead of turning his back and jumping we wouldn't be talking about this. Absolutely he was at fault for the goal.

 

If Rooney puts by International standards what was a must score chance in the back of the net we draw that game 2-2. I see you forget that one in your support of Rooney. Easy to blame Baines when you don't like the player in comparison to another like Rooney. 

[foxes_rule1978]

they did enough to beat us..

Like I said jammy and lucky... not like that never happens in a season... of course it does simply put we were better and are better

[Manwell Pablo]

And then get hammered later on, we should have done so... but the heat didn't favour us... Italy are simply boring and shite... We deserved to win simples

 

You can't say that for sure, don't right them off, many people made that mistake in 2006. Don't think they'll win it but you can never say Italy will get hammered by anyone.

[The Doctor]

Well that's exactly what I've done. If Baines stops the cross instead of turning his back and jumping we wouldn't be talking about this. Absolutely he was at fault for the goal.

He could have done more to stop the cross, but to place the blame entirely on him is very harsh, given the rest of the team hung him out to dry.

[Guest ttfn]

How is it besides the point when the point is about full-backs getting support lol ?!

And it's hard to play to your strengths as an attacking full back when the opposition double up on you with 2 attacking players.

How is that so hard to see?!

Ok if it's that easy then next season in the champions league every team will shit down Alaba and Lahm by putting two players on them.

There are ways around it - perhaps more help defensively would be beneficial, perhaps not that's Roy's job, but if we're going to go to a World Cup with Baines as our #1 left back he needs to be in the opposition half more than ours.

[foxes_rule1978]

You can't say that for sure, don't right them off, many people made that mistake in 2006. Don't think they'll win it but you can never say Italy will get hammered by anyone.

We have the same arguments with Murray, you are simply anti British/English anyone who thought Italy were good or deserved the win needs their head testing

[Guest ttfn]

That is bollocks. Baines was hung out to dry by Welbeck not tracking his man and being left with a 2 on 1 down that left hand side. You cannot simply place the blame at Baines for that 2nd goal. He was in no man's land.

Hold on everybody is saying its Rooney's fault?

[StanSP]

Ok if it's that easy then next season in the champions league every team will shit down Alaba and Lahm by putting two players on them.

There are ways around it - perhaps more help defensively would be beneficial, perhaps not that's Roy's job, but if we're going to go to a World Cup with Baines as our #1 left back he needs to be in the opposition half more than ours.

 

And then completely leave our left back position even more prone to danger? The reason why Baines wasn't in Italy's half more was because they stuck 2 players on that side and it was a good move by Italy from the start.

 

How many fvcking times.

[Manwell Pablo]

No, but I already acknowledged that. I know that's bad. Agree that it's his job to defend but you'll see all across other teams that midfielders do and should lend their support to their full-backs. Baines was left on his own far too many times and Italy were constantly having 2 men on him, therefore making Baines work extra hard and tiring him out even more than usual. It also meant that he couldn't get up as often as we would have wanted him to and as a result, Baines was restricted and couldn't get as many crosses in like he's capable of. So as much as Baines probably played below-par, it's not like he even had many chances to shine anyway. Italy's plan was to crowd our left flank and it worked to perfection for them. They nullified the threat of Baines (his crossing pushing up to help our attacks). 

 

Which midfielder do you want covering him?

[Bert]

If Rooney puts by International standards what was a must score chance in the back of the net we draw that game 2-2. I see you forget that one in your support of Rooney. Easy to blame Baines when you don't like the player in comparison to another like Rooney.

Ifs, buts and maybes eh?

Read back in the thread and you might just see that I've said "Rooney did well for the goal and should've scored when he dragged it wide of the post, otherwise another lacklustre performance."

So actually, no I didn't forget it.

[Guest ttfn]

Let's not forget that a competent ref gives at least one penalty for us in the 5 minutes after Italy's second.

I genuinely don't get what people think happens with the Welbeck incident? He plays a pass and then has both legs swiped from under him in the penalty area. It's an obvious penalty.

[The Doctor]

Ok if it's that easy then next season in the champions league every team will shit down Alaba and Lahm by putting two players on them.

There are ways around it - perhaps more help defensively would be beneficial, perhaps not that's Roy's job, but if we're going to go to a World Cup with Baines as our #1 left back he needs to be in the opposition half more than ours.

I agree that baines needs to be given an attacking role if he's going to play, but being a defender he can't just abandon defensive duties unless he has someone to step in behind and free him up, he just didn't get that today.

[Guest ttfn]

And then completely leave our left back position even more prone to danger? The reason why Baines wasn't in Italy's half more was because they stuck 2 players on that side and it was a good move by Italy from the start.

How many fvcking times.

Right so as long as NFP does that next season against Man City there is literally no way of Kolarov getting forward without exposing the other defenders?

Comforting.

[StanSP]

Which midfielder do you want covering him?

 

Well I can't remember who mentioned it during the match, but someone suggested switching Henderson & Gerrard because the former has more 'legs' and energy so would be able to lend more support than Gerrard in that area. Or you have Rooney/Welbeck (given they were on the left hand side of the midfield at times) dropping back more. Not sure what other suggestions you could be looking for.