England V Italy

[foxes_rule1978]

Simply put Italy are just so jammy... frustrated tonight but we will win the next two games playing that way. Italy will probably lose one because no team can get lucky three times in a row

[Manwell Pablo]

If Rooney puts by International standards what was a must score chance in the back of the net we draw that game 2-2. I see you forget that one in your support of Rooney. Easy to blame Baines when you don't like the player in comparison to another like Rooney. 

 

If Rooney doesn't put what is by international standards a world class cross into DS we aren't even in the game to begin with.

[Bert]

If Rooney doesn't put what is by international standards a world class cross into DS we aren't even in the game to begin with.

In other news. Gary Lewin has a fracture and dislocation of the ankle.

[Manwell Pablo]

Well I can't remember who mentioned it during the match, but someone suggested switching Henderson & Gerrard because the former has more 'legs' and energy so would be able to lend more support than Gerrard in that area. Or you have Rooney/Welbeck (given they were on the left hand side of the midfield at times) dropping back more. Not sure what other suggestions you could be looking for.

 

Tell me specifically which midfielder you want covering the left back position.

 

It's the major pitfall of the formation, you leave your flanks open.

 

As I've already said, the Italians like to play central so it was a good decision by Roy but unfortuantley on one of the few occasions they went with the width they caught us out.

[StanSP]

I've given you suggestions. It's not up to me who specifically covers the position; I'm just saying that it would have been nice for one of them to cover Baines more than just a few times.

 

And 'one of few occasions they went with width'. Pretty sure it was more than just a few occasions.

[Manwell Pablo]

I've given you suggestions. It's not up to me who specifically covers the position; I'm just saying that it would have been nice for one of them to cover Baines more than just a few times.

 

And 'one of few occasions they went with width'. Pretty sure it was more than just a few occasions.

 

To coin one of your own phrases, that is the dictionary of a "weak response"

 

You play 4-3-3 you'll get caught down the wings, naturally it is a wingers job to cover the full back, but we're playing with forwards not wingers, you can't expect three central players to cover both wide positions all of the time, eventually you'll get caught, when you play like that you'll always run the risk of leaving one of the flanks open. Which is all well and good if you have a seasoned full back like Ashley Cole....if not, see Italy's second goal.

[Eddie Big Balls]

It seems like I'm the only England fan in the world who actually enjoyed that performance? Pace, power and aggression and the only reason the result wasn't better was the heat and humidity of Manaus, which can't really be avoided. For once it was actually a very English performance, unlike the last few tournaments England have played, and for the most part it was very well executed. Just a shame we didn't take Carrick to play that defensive midfield position - he's a mile better than Gerrard (who was the only player who really really disappointed me tonight) at that deep midfield role.

[Manwell Pablo]

It seems like I'm the only England fan in the world who actually enjoyed that performance? Pace, power and aggression and the only reason the result wasn't better was the heat and humidity of Manaus, which can't really be avoided. For once it was actually a very English performance, unlike the last few tournaments England have played, and for the most part it was very well executed. Just a shame we didn't take Carrick to play that defensive midfield position - he's a mile better than Gerrard (who was the only player who really really disappointed me tonight) at that deep midfield role.

 

I think it's a given everyone enjoyed that showing it's just that our failings in certain area's have been exposed and despite playing well and being positive we've lost.

[Haydos]

I can't be arsed to read this thread now but I bet that somewhere someone said Rooney was shit and shouldn't even be starting. Despite the world class ball he delivered for our goal.

 

Saying that, I thought he was fairly quiet overall, Roy made good subs at the right times, couldn't ask for more from the manager really. At the end of the day we didn't take our chances and our final third product was underwhelming. Very disappointing considering the poor opposition we were up against.

 

Also I bet someone said Johnson was shit despite him playing reasonably well. I'll have a read tomorrow.

[Dan]

Tactical genius, intelligence... what !!! Italy's philosophy is defend and counter, works for certain Italian sides but this one is very poor. No pace or threat upfront... They got jammy and lucky

 

Lucky? They stuck to their plan better than we did.

 

There were certainly positives on show tonight but on the whole it's proven fruitless. It's too early for this squad. We'll do fvck all this year but if we've got anything about us when it comes to fitting our promising players into a consistent & effective system then we can go extremely far in 2016, but that's a huge if given our appalling track record.

 

No idea how anyone on here is defending Baines. He was diabolical. If he's being doubled up on (despite the fact Italy were largely sitting back, sort of doesn't work) then who's taking advantage?

 

The first half was encouraging. The second half was shit and we looked clueless. Where was Lambert?

[Harry - LCFC]

You might have got the impression that England were downright awful tonight if this thread was the only thing you'd read about the game.

 

Don't mind people analysing our faults but it's depressing listening to people who seem genuinely angry about it all. I'm disappointed by the result but England gave me reason to be optimistic earlier.

[Aus Fox]

After watching both games I think we will win our next 2 and go through as runners up, as for the team tonight they huffed and puffed and couldn't break them down, would have loved to have seen Lambert come on when Sturridge went off, change things up a little.

Johnson was poor, but there is no one else better, same with Bains. We have all been crying out for years about Chelsea/ Man Utd etc players playing for England when they are not getting regular first team football, it makes sense not to take cole.

Jag/Cahill did ok, again the best we've got so can't complain.

Gerrard went missing, played some good balls but when as England captain we needed him to step up and produce he went back into his shell.

Henderson did enough to warrant his place in the 11.

Rooney is not a left winger, never has been never will be, needs to play as an out and out striker or not at all.

welbeck/ sterling tries their hardest very wasteful and ran out of ideas.

Sturridge got his goal, did ok would like to see him play as part of a front 2.

Overall we could have won, didn't and need to move on, it's ok knocking players but the reality is that was close to England's strongest 11 and they are not good enough to beat the top sides.

Changes for Uruguay I would go

Hart

Johnson

Jagelka

Cahill

Bains

Ox (if fit)

Henderson

Gerrard

Sterling

Rooney

Sturridge

Good old fashioned 442 if we stick with the same formation as today bring Lallana in for Rooney and Barkley for Wellbeck with sterling moving out wide.

[broughtonblue]

If Rooney starts on Thursday that's me done with England this World Cup

If Rooney starts on the left on Thursday that's England done with this World Cup!

[Webbo]

Well that was hard luck but despite playing well we still lost so I can't take any comfort. From that. We're capable of winning both our next games but we could be equally unlucky in those. In short, fingers crossed.

[Callabinho]

Tactical genius, intelligence... what !!! Italy's philosophy is defend and counter, works for certain Italian sides but this one is very poor. No pace or threat upfront... They got jammy and lucky

They made England look like school boys at times. It was a typical Italian performance, every time England had a sniff they slowed the pace right down, they had to do very little to beat England. It was a masterclass on how to win a World Cup match.

[roblcfc84]

I am astonished by what I am reading, I hope some sleep has provided some clarity. It was one of the best England performances I've seen for years. The Italian manager said he believes England have one of the strongest attacks at the competition, sometimes it just doesn't come off.

With regard to the goal, it was well beck who stopped tracking and left Baines with two players to look after.

[KFS]

Welbeck had a good game until the Balotelli goal, it's embarrassing watching his comtribution (or lack of) on the highlights, he simply jogs back and then has the cheek to throw his arms up.

As for Rooney- granted he got an assist, but it's another situation emulating premature ejaculation for me. Huge build up and then an incredibly disappointing finish. I'm sick of seeing squandered chances and Hollywood balls.

Every time I go to get excited about some of the stuff we played, I still remind myself that we lost. The defence for both goals is laughable. Bit more solidarity and effort and we'll be alright.

Uruguay is massive.

[Bayfox]

Barkley or the ox to come in rooney. Lallana for wellbeck and I reckon we will still get out this group.

Pleased woy was brave and went with sterling, just seemed to run out of ideas 2nd half.

But that 1st half was as good as england have played in a long time.

In a way I'm glad we didn't resort to lambert and long balls, however it may have been needed in the last 10.

I feel if roy gives sterling, barkley the ox the chance to play in the euro qualifiers we could be a good side in the next few years.

sterling had come on leaps and bounds from the player he was when he joined liverpool.

[Nalis]

I am astonished by what I am reading, I hope some sleep has provided some clarity. It was one of the best England performances I've seen for years. The Italian manager said he believes England have one of the strongest attacks at the competition, sometimes it just doesn't come off.

With regard to the goal, it was well beck who stopped tracking and left Baines with two players to look after.

I completely agree, some of the comments here are totally over the top. There was more attacking flair from England in 45 mins here than in the whole of the 2010 WC.

Yes, Gerard played poorly for his standards and Rooney tried and failed to steal the show but like it or not they are both still two of England's best players. In my opinion Roy has done well with the players at his disposal and yet still get dogs abuse when he tinkers with the system.

One example - Everyone calls for him to drop Milner during the season for a more attacking right sided midfielder then when that happens he's lambasted for being too naive defensively. You cant win!

[Fox Ulike]

Rooney was poor, and if any other player had delivered that performance would have been subbed after an hour.

He's not a left winger and i feel sorry for him to be played out of position against world class players.

Yes it was a good ball for our goal - but he is put clean through by Sterling and he is unmarked. In that position it's really not asking too much of an international player to deliver a good ball into the box.

Lloyd Dyer is a better left winger than Wayne Rooney.

Despite all the positives it's yet another World Cup game sacrificed because a manager doesn't have the balls to drop a "star" player.

And please, if we have to play him at least don't let him take any more corners.

[Callabinho]

It was a much more positive from England in terms of "having a go", but they still can't get the balance of the side right, it doesn't matter what you say, Pirlo dominated his area and used the ball intelligently and effectively, Gerrard needs to do that, granted he isn't as technically gifted a Pirlo, but he needs to impose himself on on other midfielders more and take control of games.

Ultimately it was the intelligence and experience of Italy that defied them, the worrying thing for England is that it took very little to find a way through when they needed to. One or two moments of excellence and bang...Italy lead, considering the strike force of their next opponents this should concern Roy.

England have been hopeless for a while at major tournaments, England should get out of the group this time and reach at least reach the quarters, it's a transition period and the future doesn't look so bleak for them.

[Happy Fox]

I don't think England will qualify they will get 4 points imo, I reckon they have to win both their remaining games, and I cannot see that happening.

 

Neutral viewpoint, I am not English.

[kingfox]

Oh dear, I see Baines has been getting harshly criticised since I went bed last night. Yes he didn't do too well; however as some people with a brain have alluded to he was doubled up last night, all Italy needed to do was pass it from Darmian round the back of Baines to Candreva and they were away, or visa versa. His defending was poor, which led to the goal; however what about Johnson? He was the one who let Balotelli get ahead of him, and fire home the header. 

 

Rooney's defensive work was minimal last night, and I have to say like it or not, last night's game was the perfect game to play James Milner. Oh but James Milner is shit blah blah blah; however he would of put far more defensive work in than Rooney, and would of helped Baines out a lot more than Rooney did. 

 

Baines has been terrific for Everton for years now, yes his crossing and getting forward is his main asset, but isn't that the case for most right & left backs nowadays, from what I saw in the Premier League last season, the best England player in terms of defence in the left-back position was Jon Flanagan of Liverpool, and where is he? Oh yeah on standby. And yes that's me saying that Flanagan is definitely more ready than Luke Shaw, if you disagree then so be it.

 

On last night's performance I would perhaps make one change, Barkley in for Rooney, but as people will say Rooney is undroppable, regardless how he plays in previous games. I will still stick by what I said about Welbeck as well, he was fantastic last night, and when he went off, I have to say we looked kind of weaker going forward. Welbeck was working hard, linking well with Sterling & Sturridge, was beating players & was trying to create chances.

 

Standard rant over   

[Stadt]

Uruguay aren't the force that I thought they'd be looking at the Costa Rica game so I think we could come away with a win quite easily.

And despite the victory over Uruguay, Costa Rica are there for the taking.

[StanSP]

Just remembered Rooney's horrendous corner after Baines' free-kick lol. 

 

What the fvck was all that about?