England V Italy

[Finnaldo]

Positive attacking wise, balance just wasn't there though.

We really could have done with a point at least there, I'm still pretty confident we can beat Costa Rica but will Uruguay ever be that awful again? I can't help but fear that its a blip that'll make them more determined than ever to play strongly in the last two games.

Still, I'm confident. As previously said it was a blip from Uruguay so we should still beat Costa Rica, and that game could've really detrimented Uruguay's confidence. If we can go into that without Suarez then I think we have a very strong chance of advancing.

[johnny the fox]

I am astonished by what I am reading, I hope some sleep has provided some clarity. It was one of the best England performances I've seen for years. The Italian manager said he believes England have one of the strongest attacks at the competition, sometimes it just doesn't come off.

With regard to the goal, it was well beck who stopped tracking and left Baines with two players to look after.

your living in denial mate, if we had scored another, Italy would of scored three, they did enough to win, its not about looking good ,its about winning.. as for rooney, scholes says he is over the hill, but what does he know..

[Super_horns]

Just a shame we seemed to lack energy and composure right when we needed it near the end because generally we played pretty well against a decent Italy side.

 

Missed some really good chances and the 2 goals given away were pretty soft which surprised me actually.

 

Sterling was very impressive butt hey certainly targeted the full backs and Rooney should have scored (albeit created the goal too)

 

A promising performance but have to covert those chances and make sure we tighten up at the back.

 

A final worry would be the way we did lose fitness at the end when chasing the game.

[kingfox]

Well it seems Stan has a brain, probably still won't follow me on twitter though 

[StanSP]

Well it seems Stan has a brain, probably still won't follow me on twitter though 

 

I thought I already do?

And why do we seem in the minority about what was so blatant yesterday ?

[kingfox]

 

I thought I already do?

And why do we seem in the minority about what was so blatant yesterday ?

 

Nah you don't 

 

Because we are a few with good eyesight   see I ain't all bad.

 

Baines was doubled up last night, and if we played Ashley Cole last night or Luke Shaw we probably still would of struggled in that area. It was easy for Italy to pass it from Darmian to Candreva whether it was forward or sideways, it's an almost impossible task to try and defend against two players, right & left backs need support, and Baines hardly got any last night. And like I said, last night's game would of been perfect for James Milner, even though we didn't start him, I was kind of surprised he didn't come on as a sub. If we brought Milner on instead of Wilshere, Milner could of drifted out and covered Baines, while Rooney or Barkley could drifted into a more central midfield role, what did Wilshere do last night apart from run twice into about five Italy players? When Welbeck went off as well, we missed a bit of pace, he is faster than Lallana and for me Lallana looked a bit out of his depth; however he needs a real run in the side, before I pass proper judgement, Oxlade-Chamberlain was he still injured? If we brought him on then the pace from both flanks would of still been there, with him & Sterling. While if we brought Milner on, that would of shored us up better defensively. 

 

Everyone has different opinions, but Baines & Welbeck for some reason are easy scapegoats. 

[StanSP]

Nah you don't 

 

Because we are a few with good eyesight   see I ain't all bad.

 

Baines was doubled up last night, and if we played Ashley Cole last night or Luke Shaw we probably still would of struggled in that area. It was easy for Italy to pass it from Darmian to Candreva whether it was forward or sideways, it's an almost impossible task to try and defend against two players, right & left backs need support, and Baines hardly got any last night. And like I said, last night's game would of been perfect for James Milner, even though we didn't start him, I was kind of surprised he didn't come on as a sub. If we brought Milner on instead of Wilshere, Milner could of drifted out and covered Baines, while Rooney or Barkley could drifted into a more central midfield role, what did Wilshere do last night apart from run twice into about five Italy players? When Welbeck went off as well, we missed a bit of pace, he is faster than Lallana and for me Lallana looked a bit out of his depth; however he needs a real run in the side, before I pass proper judgement, Oxlade-Chamberlain was he still injured? If we brought him on then the pace from both flanks would of still been there, with him & Sterling. While if we brought Milner on, that would of shored us up better defensively. 

 

Everyone has different opinions, but Baines & Welbeck for some reason are easy scapegoats. 

 

What's your Twitter?

 

I mentioned most of those points at the time - any full-back would have struggled and despite acknowledging Baines could have done better with the cross for Balotelli, maybe if Baines had support, Candreva (?) might not have even got in to the position to cross for Balotelli anyway!

 

And definitely with you on the Milner front. Have seen in here earlier actually that people have such a perception about him and because of that, he just shouldn't play at all. But yesterday would have been perfect for him and Baines. He would have provided vital support. Wilshere was very ineffective and the game didn't suit him.

 

But what's done is done - as long as we learn from our mistakes (which weren't just centralised to Baines) for Uruguay although I don't think they'll set up like Italy did tonight. 

 

May sound like I'm moaning a lot but I actually enjoyed the game last night. So refreshing to see attacking and exciting football (thank you Roy and thank you Sterling). That shot from Sterling set us up for majority of the game - gave us a belief that we can find space and can create opportunities against a stubborn Italian defence.

[broughtonblue]

Pirlot ran the show two years ago and did the same yesterday, should have put a man on him, not giving him an inch of space.

Then see how we do 10 v 10

[reynard]

Far and away too much negativity on here.

if we can't beat both Uruguay and Costa Rica then we just don't deserve to go through in any case. They are both very beatable. Uruguay were quite frankly shocking and I'd fancy a good club side to beat them if they play like that. Costa Rica did ok but the overall quality of the match was very very poor.

 

England did some good things and though we may not win this year I think in 4 years time we may have a decent chance if this group of players keep developing and we find some decent defenders.

[kingfox]

What's your Twitter?

 

I mentioned most of those points at the time - any full-back would have struggled and despite acknowledging Baines could have done better with the cross for Balotelli, maybe if Baines had support, Candreva (?) might not have even got in to the position to cross for Balotelli anyway!

 

And definitely with you on the Milner front. Have seen in here earlier actually that people have such a perception about him and because of that, he just shouldn't play at all. But yesterday would have been perfect for him and Baines. He would have provided vital support. Wilshere was very ineffective and the game didn't suit him.

 

But what's done is done - as long as we learn from our mistakes (which weren't just centralised to Baines) for Uruguay although I don't think they'll set up like Italy did tonight. 

 

May sound like I'm moaning a lot but I actually enjoyed the game last night. So refreshing to see attacking and exciting football (thank you Roy and thank you Sterling). That shot from Sterling set us up for majority of the game - gave us a belief that we can find space and can create opportunities against a stubborn Italian defence.

 

gav_26

 

Of course they would of, yes Baines defending at the time of the goal was poor, a nice little ballerina jump did him no favours, but like you say where was the support? Rooney was nowhere to be seen, and yes he isn't a left midfielder, but his job last night defensive was, was to protect Baines, but he didn't do that enough. Fans are not mentioning the defending of Johnson though, what really frustrates me is when defenders get beaten in the air for a header, which then results in a goal, defenders need to be clearing their lines & not ball watching; however I guess that happens week in week out.

 

Yep even before the match, I put Milner down in my starting 11, because that is the type of game which would of suited him, you know for a fact that he would of done much more defensive work than Rooney, and definitely wouldn't of kept coming inside like Rooney was trying to do.

 

England played well, but in games against top teams like Italy, you can't go all out attack, like England tried to do, or it comes backs and bites you, and unfortunately that's what happened. That's why Hodgson has a knack of playing Milner against the top teams, because of his defensive work. It even might be ideal to play him against Uruguay. While against Costa Rica, we are capable of attacking them, and will probably play a similar team as to last night against them.

 

Welbeck & Milner are often scapegoats, but I don't think people realise how important they can be for England. 

[MooseBreath]

I don't think Wilshere was an effective sub, but I can't see how bringing on Milner when we were chasing a goal would have been any better. It's not as if Italy were tearing us apart down that flank anyway, they scored one goal from it and that should have been prevented by better central positioning. Simplistically speaking, put Milner in and maybe we only concede once, but then we don't score, so nothing is achieved except taking a step back towards the dull defensive outlook for which we've been rightly criticised for years.

[Trav Le Bleu]

As poor as England were (at times - we were alos very good at times) they were not as bad as Phil Neville's commentary. Apparently he seems to be a robot that can't speak in sentences of more than 10 syllables, either that or he was trying to construct an ellaborate hiaku.

 

Say no to Nev!

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

Someone made a good post in the Holland Spain thread about Torres getting started etc due to past glories and reputation. I think this is exactly like Rooney. Did nothing until the assist and was no where when we needed him defending. Really hope we drop him and he might even be better off the bench anyway.

Sterling Barkley and Lallana for Uruguay please. Im sick of Rooney playing despite it not being on merit

[kingfox]

I don't think Wilshere was an effective sub, but I can't see how bringing on Milner when we were chasing a goal would have been any better. It's not as if Italy were tearing us apart down that flank anyway, they scored one goal from it and that should have been prevented by better central positioning. Simplistically speaking, put Milner in and maybe we only concede once, but then we don't score, so nothing is achieved except taking a step back towards the dull defensive outlook for which we've been rightly criticised for years.

 

But look at the gaps Italy found in behind Henderson & Gerrard, look how many times Baines got doubled up, that's purely because our intent was to attack, fans wanted to see that, but in games against teams like Italy, you can't afford to do that. Milner might of been a negative choice, and majority of England fans would of probably moaned and called him shit, but Hodgson puts him in for his defensive work, and for me we had nobody in midfield last night who put in a shift defensively. 

 

Wilshere yet again is more of an attacking minded midfielder, go back to the days where England played Scott Parker, he would sit in front of the defence and protect the back four, and because of that their were calls for him to be named captain, and at the time he was probably one of our best players. Now where is someone like Michael Carrick? Oh yeah on standby. It might be negative in terms of selection, but England need players like them, look at Italy last night, they had Verratti & Pirlo, one defensive minded midfielder, and one midfielder who can do everything, England didn't have that.

[Richard]

Most players peak late 20s early 30s yet the way Rooney burst onto the scene is different. He was a fully grown man at 16 and now 12 years later could he have reached an earlier peak because he developed so young?

[RowlattsFox]

We were a better team before the subs, we actually started the second well before they scored.

Italy were tactically very good and we played too much passes around the box towards the end. Would have put lambert on for sturridge instead of lallana.

[Happy Fox]

Most players peak late 20s early 30s yet the way Rooney burst onto the scene is different. He was a fully grown man at 16 and now 12 years later could he have reached an earlier peak because he developed so young?

 

His peak was about 4 years ago imo.

[ian_marshall]

What surprises me is that everyone is criticising Baines for not doing enough to stop the cross which led to the goal, and I personally agree that he should done better, but for me Cahill should have been far tighter to Ballotelli and put a challenge on him. He got caught in no man's land, and it's inexcusable that a player of his quality has a free header at the back post from 2 yards out unchallenged as there was only ever going to be one outcome.

[Chairman of the Bored]

Attacking flair with little end result equals not many goals. The midfield is piss poor. Gerrard is now so far back he may as well play in goal. Henderson is not international standard. We saw at City last year how midfield can be dominated with the right combination (James and Drinky). Pirlo sat in there and ran the game. I thought we were second rate throughout, apart from Sterling, who showed genuine bravado, although his crossing ability went missing in the second half. Can't see us beating Uruguay either. 

[l444ry]

Forget all this self flagellation from England fans. England were excellent. All credit to Cesare Prandelli the master tactician.

[Fox Ulike]

Most players peak late 20s early 30s yet the way Rooney burst onto the scene is different. He was a fully grown man at 16 and now 12 years later could he have reached an earlier peak because he developed so young?

Good point. Watching him alongside younger players like Sterling, Barkley and Sturridge makes him look fairly ordinary. He should be at his peak but looks and plays like he's 33. Old before his time.

I'm not too sure if Gerrard contributes enough either. He's 34 and i wonder how he'll get through another 2 games in a week.

[Callabinho]

Pirlot ran the show two years ago and did the same yesterday, should have put a man on him, not giving him an inch of space.

Then see how we do 10 v 10

Many have tried that and have failed, put a man on him and he will just pass quicker.

[foxes_rule1978]

No one can fault England, we weren't boring, we were far more positive than Italy and I feel we didn't get what we deserved from the game.

What I saw tells me we are looking to move in the right direction, tighten up at the back and improve at defending and attacking set pieces and we could be a force. I feel we will win the next two games if we play like that, and there isn't any reason we couldn't do so...

[broughtonblue]

Many have tried that and have failed, put a man on him and he will just pass quicker.

So we just let him play how he wants?

Got to say though he must have eyes in the back of his head,

[Raj]

Thought it was a proper god game with both going to it until the heat got to England(No italiand suffered with cramp did they?

Some great attacking footy by England but i always got the impression Italy could step it up if really needed?

Egland fans really have to admit that Rooney is not a £300K a week player and is not one of THE World class players.

Like some have said if that was someone else they'd have been subbed.

P.S as much as i hate to give credit to anyone associated with Liverpool i though Sterling and sturridge scared the shite out of the Italans sometimes...but to counter that...Jordan Henderson???? !!!