Should UEFA Lose a place at the World Cup?

[Manwell Pablo]

Just an observation of mine, and another excuse to get at the wand that is POTM, I don't think we could complain if we lost a place at these finals given the woeful showing European teams have put in this summer. 

 

Much has been made of how most teams from South America qualify (four from ten, with one international play off place) but surely the idea is to get the most capable teams competing at the World Cup finals? This is why they have such a percentage of teams entering the tournament, and why we still take twice as many teams to a World Cup finals than any other continent even those with similar number of members (AFC,CAF) because of our historical success?

 

This year however, ourselves, Italy, Spain, Croatia and Bosnia have already bombed out. Should two of Russia, Greece, or Portugal go, which looks highly likely at this moment in time, our qualification from the group stages would be less than 50%. Whilst many people will remember last time outs all UEFA final, few will remember we were in similar situation last time out, with only six UEFA nations getting past the group stage, 7 going out. One of them being a piss poor England side who's only win came against the worst fellow UEFA side in the competition. 

 

So with all of South Americas teams getting past the group stage in 2010, Brasil, Columbia, Uruguay and Argentina already guaranteed a place in the knockout stages, do you think the South Americans should gain an extra place.

 

Alternatively given CONCACAF don't have a considerably smaller amount of member nations than us and already have Mexico and Costa Rica through to the knockout stages with the USA in a good position to follow making it 3 out 4, CONEMBOL could surely also make a similar claim.

 

Obviosuly Asian and African sides have somewhat struggled but they aren't taking 13 teams to the World Cup. I personally think if your taking 13/14 teams to a World Cup finals you need more than half of them to clear the group stage to justify that place. 

 

I'd be especially interested to hear what our fans situated out of continent think of this. Not sure what fans outside of our confederation make of the UEFA heavy qualification places.

[ScouseFox]

we had 3 of the last 4 semi finalists and all 4 the time before that. this tournament is in south america so is obviously going to benefit south americans. 

[Grandad.]

The Greeks look to be going through at the minute! 

 

Do it for our European places!

[Corky]

This has been a very poor tournament by European standards but the continent always seems to have a representative in the final (1950 was the last time there wasn't), plus the last two finals have been all European. 10 of the last 16 in 2006 were European, although only four of the last 16 in 2010 were (all three reached at least the semi final).

 

I think you need more than two really poor tournaments to lose a place, especially when it's got such a strong history.

[Manwell Pablo]

This has been a very poor tournament by European standards but the continent always seems to have a representative in the final (1950 was the last time there wasn't), plus the last two finals have been all European. 10 of the last 16 in 2006 were European, although only four of the last 16 in 2010 were (all three reached at least the semi final).

 

I think you need more than two really poor tournaments to lose a place, especially when it's got such a strong history.

 

Not about how the stronger teams perform though is it. It's about teams like Pannama missing out when nearly all of their pier qualify while, after that goal, we could only possibly get 5 of 13 teams through. Only six last time, even in Germany four went out on home soil.

[Dr The Singh]

Yes, The place should be given to the Punjab

[Nalis]

If anything Europe doesnt have enough places for me.

If you any strong contenders, you maybe have 2 South American and 4 European. If you look at possible winners, you could argue we would have 3/4 South American teams and 8 Europeans.

As things stand, Iran and South Korea will almost always qualify for the World Cup whereas a name such as Denmark qualify maybe 50% of the time and yet Denmark would be better than both.

[Guest ttfn]

Perhaps the solution is to take away the runners up play-offs in Uefa and have those teams enter an international play off along with New Zealand, 4th place in Concacaf etc.

Edit: and perhaps throw in another play off spot for South America and Asia whilst we're at it.

[Manwell Pablo]

If anything Europe doesnt have enough places for me.

If you any strong contenders, you maybe have 2 South American and 4 European. If you look at possible winners, you could argue we would have 3/4 South American teams and 8 Europeans.

As things stand, Iran and South Korea will almost always qualify for the World Cup whereas a name such as Denmark qualify maybe 50% of the time and yet Denmark would be better than both.

 

But yet again, it's not about potential 4 or so winners, I say again if you have 13 teams qualifying, you can't justify the places if half are getting knocked out while South America and North America are sending through 4/5 and 3/4 respectfully 

[ScouseFox]

But yet again, it's not about potential 4 or so winners, I say again if you have 13 teams qualifying, you can't justify the places if half are getting knocked out while South America and North America are sending through 4/5 and 3/4 respectfully 

 

but if we took out 2 or 3 european teams and replaced them with new zealand, panama and jordan they wouldn't qualify either so we'd have to take their places back off them in 12 years time, too? 

[Nalis]

But yet again, it's not about potential 4 or so winners, I say again if you have 13 teams qualifying, you can't justify the places if half are getting knocked out while South America and North America are sending through 4/5 and 3/4 respectfully

But surely using that logic you cant justify 5 African teams qualifying when only 1/2 are likely to get out of the group stage?

[Manwell Pablo]

but if we took out 2 or 3 european teams and replaced them with new zealand, panama and jordan they wouldn't qualify either so we'd have to take their places back off them in 12 years time, too? 

 

You can't say that in the case of Pannama. Got results against teams going through to the knockout stages in qualifying and were a whisker away from qualifying.

[CosbehFox]

South America had six teams this year.

Couldn't understand why they got a playoff spot this year which was effectively qualifying the 6th best South American team.

[Bryn]

I'd take one off Africa first.

[Manwell Pablo]

But surely using that logic you cant justify 5 African teams qualifying when only 1/2 are likely to get out of the group stage?

 

It's a "World" cup and they take 5 members, still their looking like they'll take 2 out of 5 through, but yes if North America took a place off them it'd be pretty 

[foxes_rule1978]

Even the weaker South American teams and Central American sides have a good advantage when the World Cup is in Brazil... Costa Rica would have got smashed every game had it been in europe... Just a fact... European sides always struggle in tough climates...

[ScouseFox]

You can't say that in the case of Pannama. Got results against teams going through to the knockout stages in qualifying and were a whisker away from qualifying.

 

it's more than likely that panama wouldn't have qualified from our group if they replaced us. but ok let's say between the three one qualifies once out of 9 joint attempts over the next three years are we then going to take a place back off them? keep chopping and changing it forever? or just take them off europe give them to other crap teams and let them be crap forever? 

 

the fact is the not so strong european teams are still definitely stronger than teams like tahiti or jordan etc. they're stronger than most federations bar the top south american sides and even then it's only been one tournament (in south america) where they're looking better than our sides. 

[Manwell Pablo]

South America had six teams this year.

Couldn't understand why they got a playoff spot this year which was effectively qualifying the 6th best South American team.

 

All through but one this time around. Ecuador have an outside of making it a full house, like it was in South Africa, no brainier really.

[Manwell Pablo]

it's more than likely that panama wouldn't have qualified from our group if they replaced us. but ok let's say between the three one qualifies once out of 9 joint attempts over the next three years are we then going to take a place back off them? keep chopping and changing it forever? or just take them off europe give them to other crap teams and let them be crap forever? 

 

the fact is the not so strong european teams are still definitely stronger than teams like tahiti or jordan etc. they're stronger than most federations bar the top south american sides and even then it's only been one tournament (in south america) where they're looking better than our sides. 

 

Agreed but where have I said teams from Asia or Ocenia should get a place

 

specfically pointed at North and South America.

[CosbehFox]

I'm fairly sure when Europe is a host, no additional spot is given out that's more my point. It stays at the allocated number.

[Grandad.]

I can't believe I was so naive in thinking the conditions wouldn't of had such an impact. 

[Manwell Pablo]

I'm fairly sure when Europe is a host, no additional spot is given out that's more my point. It stays at the allocated number.

 

No it is we had 14 in Germany and will in Russia.

[Donut]

I can't believe I was so naive in thinking the conditions wouldn't of had such an impact. 

 

In no way is this a dig, but would you still consider losing to Colombia as being "embarrasing"?

[Aus Fox]

Do you think Venezuala, Jordon, New Zealand, Panama or Egypt would have had a better tournement than England, Italy, Spain, Greece, Bosnia, Portugal etc.

I know the European teams haven't performed amazingly but I don't think any of these would have done any better?

What do you think of making the play off round global? So teams qualify in their confederations but when the play offs come around Uruguay Jordon New Zealand Mexico and the European and African teams are put in a pot together and drawn out, with it wing a global game players are used to flying all over the world for games.

Would this ensure we are closer to having the best 32 teams at the World Cup?

[Grandad.]

In no way is this a dig, but would you still consider losing to Colombia as being "embarrasing"?

 

Not a chance now, they have been a revelation but England in my eyes shouldn't be losing a knock out game to Colombia, then again I was very confident of getting through this group with 5-7 points!