Rotherham & other City/Town child abuse scandals

[Dr The Singh]

I'm sure a UKIP council would have acted no differently.

I dunno chap, I would assume the closet racists would use this incidence to go more hard line????

[Rob1742]

This is a catastrophic failure, and a prime example of people not taking responsibility and looking after themselves rather than facing into issues and addressing them.

There will be dozens of people here who really couldn't look at themselves in the mirror today and feel utter shame.

Unfortunately though this is just the tip of the iceberg.

In Jersey a few years ago a guy there highlighted that the government were concealing abuse. Stuart Syvret then ended up sacked from his Ministerial position for raising concerns. Then the Chief of Police got suspended for investigating the allegations.

Basically, people high up protecting themselves and their friends rather than trying to catch the perpetrators and getting justice for the victims.

I have been following this situations for about 6 years and it is still not come to a head.

The guy who highlighted it has now been jailed twice, they will do anything to shut him up, including pushing through new laws that will see him jailed for the third time.

The thing is, the general public will not believe anything that sounds so damning and so the people in high places can make sure it is hushed up.

If you get a moment, take a look at what is happening with Stuart Syvret in Jersey. He is fighting for justice for abused kids, but is being oppressed and jailed.

It is worse over there as it is a small island and leaders are friendly with judges, so those trying to get justice have no chance.

Stuart Syvret - from highlighting abuse, to losing his job, to being jailed, to bankruptcy. You can see why people keep their mouths shut. But good on him for trying to fight for justice.

Edited 30 August 2014 by Rob1742

[Rincewind]

There are 'rumours' that high profile MP's were involved or covering up such incidents but as yet the news has not hit the main stream media. Probably because it is unsubstantiated and if need be they have some good lawyers and judges to help them out.Don't ask for names as I will not give any which is why I just put rumours in inverted commas. If anything did get through to the public via the media  it would push the security story off the top of the news to rant about spot.

[midland_red]

I hope a lot of coppers and social workers go to prison for a very, very long time for this.

But they won't.

True...thats the real scandal here. And notes its the famous south yorks police again...the guys who brought you Orgreave snd Hillsborough

[Guest MattP]

Does anybody think a council run by any other party would have acted differently?

Yes of course. What would any other party apart from Labour have to gain?

[Guest MattP]

no

Go on then Ken the floor is yours.

Why would the Tories turn a blind eye to it?

[Guest MattP]

I'm sure a UKIP council would have acted no differently.

For someone who comes across as quite bright this might be the most stupid thing you gave posted.

Do you genuinely believe a UKIP council would have instructed authority to ignore child gang rape because they didn't want to upset the 'guardian reading elite' as Skinner put it?

If you seriously do you know nothing about the party.

[Guest MattP]

True...thats the real scandal here. And notes its the famous south yorks police again...the guys who brought you Orgreave snd Hillsborough

Not really. The real scandal is your perverted sick and twisted political party that is prepared to see kids raped to grab a few votes.

If the British people had any balls we'd be lining them up and shooting them.

[bovril]

For someone who comes across as quite bright this might be the most stupid thing you gave posted.

Do you genuinely believe a UKIP council would have instructed authority to ignore child gang rape because they didn't want to upset the 'guardian reading elite' as Skinner put it?

If you seriously do you know nothing about the party.

 

Ok, so I was fishing a little bit with the second comment, but I'm surprised you think it's so black and white.

[Guest MattP]

I think this weeks evidence has made it as black and white as it can possibly be to be honest.

In a strange way I'm actually relived, after years of being accused of racism, daily mail reader blah blah the truth has finally outed and it's exactly what 'people like me' said it was.

[Dr The Singh]

I think this weeks evidence has made it as black and white as it can possibly be to be honest.

In a strange way I'm actually relived, after years of being accused of racism, daily mail reader blah blah the truth has finally outed and it's exactly what 'people like me' said it was.

Explain Matt, I'm having dumb day, and have been bamboozled reading one of Kens post, please do say.

[Alf Bentley]

Do you genuinely believe a UKIP council would have instructed authority to ignore child gang rape because they didn't want to upset the 'guardian reading elite' as Skinner put it?

 

 

I presume you're implying that this is what the Labour council did, Matt?

If so, could you quote some evidence?

 

It's clear that, whatever the reasons, at the very least the Labour council was guilty of shameful gross negligence. Any Labour councillor who had senior responsibility or specific responsibility for children's services should resign or be sacked (and be prosecuted, if their misconduct extends that far). However, I think you need to back up an implied claim like the one you've made above. I'm not discounting that such evidence might exist; if it does, then anyone who ignored child gang rape or instructed others to do so really should be prosecuted.

 

However, it is clear that others were responsible, too - notably the police. You've commented repeatedly (and with justification) about the responsibility of Labour councillors and the attitudes of "Guardian readers", but had nothing to say about the police, as far as I can see. Do the force of law and order have no responsibility for this desecration of law and order?!? This outrage should be investigated thoroughly - both the reasons for it and the reasons why all the various authorities failed to combat it.

 

A distinction also needs to be drawn between (Labour) councillors and council officials, who aren't necessarily aligned with any party (as a civil servant in the 80s, I worked under the Thatcher Govt; my wife works for Tory-run Leicestershire county council). OK, at very senior level, in a (previously) one-party town like Rotherham, it's likely that many of the officials were Labour sympathisers...but certainly not all of them, I'd guess. The Rotherham officials were supposed to be serving the local community through its representative, the elected council (not the Labour Party) ....and if they made serious misjudgments - or even worse - then they should pay a price for that, as individuals.

 

Would something like this have happened under UKIP or the Tories? Precisely like this, almost certainly not as neither party attracts the votes of many Pakistani Muslims.

Could something of equivalent seriousness, involving a different interest group happen under a Tory or UKIP "rotten borough"? Yes, definitely. Because humans are fallible, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely (a cliche, but one with plenty of truth in it). That's why we always need proper regulation, checks and balances on power, and a high quality media scrutiny.

 

I'll try to resist getting involved in any more drawn-out arguments about this, though I expect some flack for this contribution. I've got enough upsetting things going on in my life just now, without getting involved in a load of polarised wrangling about something as distressing, depressing and serious as this outrage.

 

Come on, City! Cheer me up tomorrow!

Edited 30 August 2014 by Alf Bentley

[Rincewind]

Not all Councillors whichever party they represented would be responsible for social services. Changes in personnel may have taken place and if the previous person responsible had hidden facts then the one taking over would be unaware of what was going on. They rely on accurate information so if the thought it was rumours or gossip they may have put it to one side. A negligence of duty. If the police reports were inconclusive or inaccurate then the council cannot be blamed if they had reported it.  It appears to be one error after another and they have to be investigated so lessons can be learned in order to improve things.It is not good enough to make excuses like putting it down to computer or administrative errors. Govt dept's have a duty to serve the public and care for their well being. 

[MooseBreath]

Not good enough to put it down to am administrative error I admire your subtlety on this one Rincey, but surely this is one thread that should remain free from your relentless agenda pushing?

[Rincewind]

I never said it was administrative error, Some would though.

[MooseBreath]

I never said it was administrative error, Some would though.

Nobody is saying this was an administrative error. It clearly wasn't. Just the suggestion that something like this could be caused by an administrative error is blatantly preposterous. You're clearly trying to link this in with actual administrative errors relating to welfare payments which not only is ridiculous, but is also quite offensive.

[Rob1742]

There are 'rumours' that high profile MP's were involved or covering up such incidents but as yet the news has not hit the main stream media. Probably because it is unsubstantiated and if need be they have some good lawyers and judges to help them out.Don't ask for names as I will not give any which is why I just put rumours in inverted commas. If anything did get through to the public via the media it would push the security story off the top of the news to rant about spot.

In Jersey, the media did have the story, but don't publicise it as they prefer to keep on side of the government. Just look at the BBC and Saville. Prefer to say nothing, yet they knew. Only reported when he was dead.

[Raj]

if the community concerned cleaned up their own act then it wouldnt be the job of councillors to get involved,no matter what party they are

Edited 31 August 2014 by Raj

[Alf Bentley]

if the community concerned cleaned up their own act then it wouldnt be the job of councillors to get involved,no matter what party they are

 

That's true, Raj, but we don't just expect the "white community" to clean up booze-fueled violence or football hooliganism or the "black community" to clean up inner-city drug gangs....

 

Yes, individuals and particular communities should exercise responsibility. But where they don't, wider society has to intervene through national/local government action, law enforcement etc. Local govt & law enforcement clearly failed to do that in this case.

Edited 31 August 2014 by Alf Bentley

[Raj]

but until the muslim community say they DO have an issue nothing will change.

Their leaders need to grow some balls and speak up

[Rincewind]

It is clear there were mistakes and bad communication from all sides along the way now the ones responsible must be held accountable.

 

• Hold an investigation on how things were ignored
• Find out why there was a communication breakdown between authorities police and social workers
• look for ways to improve the system
• learn from the mistakes

[Raj]

Do these ever work though Rincey??

Do they ever learn?

To move forward someone has to take the blame...no one will.

[FoxesAreBlue]

<p>

It is clear there were mistakes and bad communication from all sides along the way now the ones responsible must be held accountable.

• Hold an investigation on how things were ignored
• Find out why there was a communication breakdown between authorities police and social workers
• look for ways to improve the system
• learn from the mistakes

And punish those responsible.

[ADK]

You can't just go blaming left or liberal politics that's for sure.

 

I can't think of anyone liberal that would like British children to be subjected to abuse.

 

You can't ask the "muslim" community to sort it out. That didn't work with the catholic priest scandal and this isn't as much about religion but culture.

[Raj]

whats your answer then?