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MC Prussian

Rotherham & other City/Town child abuse scandals

By MC Prussian, in General Chat

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

From the first 5 pages of this thread....

 

Kicked out of the Labour party?

I'd have thought he'd be in line for a promotion.

Well done Rotherham, a adopted child in a loving home taken away by social services as the foster parents had the audacity to be UKIP members while a blind eye was turned to this. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

In the last two years we have found out that the Labour government had decided to turn a blind eye to immigration and engage is levels that have now apologised for just to to 'rub the right's nose in it', now we have this, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was the same with a few of them.

 

How anyone can vote for this lot is beyond me, you need a fcuking lobotomy if you do. They should rename themselves the 'We're sorry' party, all they do these days is apologise for completely ****ing up and ruining people's lives.

The Labour Party will be a Socialist/Islamic combination in a few years anyway, they have a lot in common and know how to get the results they want (wink wink).

 

I'm starting to hate these sort of quotes when it comes to politics, don't score points, let's not use it as a political football etc etc What a load of bollocks. [...] Given the Labour Rotherham council removed an adopted child from a couple because they were UKIP members, they arent really going to be in any position to try and remove any talk of political point scoring out of their child protection services.

Yes of course. What would any other party apart from Labour have to gain?

Do you genuinely believe a UKIP council would have instructed authority to ignore child gang rape because they didn't want to upset the 'guardian reading elite' as Skinner put it?

Not really. The real scandal is your perverted sick and twisted political party that is prepared to see kids raped to grab a few votes.

If the British people had any balls we'd be lining them up and shooting them.

 

Then, after 5 pages....

 

The thread went 5 pages without the Tories being mentioned then you mentioned them 5 times in 7 posts.

But of course you don't want to bring politics into it.

 

Please don't overdo the self-parody, Matt!  lol

 

Oh, and if your argument is that an outrage like this SHOULD be used for party political point-scoring (I completely disagree), could you provide a link to where you condemned the Tories/Lib Dems who were running Derby Council when similar widespread child abuse was perpetrated by mainly Pakistani gangs there?  :rolleyes: 

 

The Labour Party in Rotherham and elsewhere have some massive questions to answer and changes to make, as do elected council employees, the police and other political parties elsewhere. Using this outrage to badmouth the Labour Party or to promote UKIP demeans the seriousness of what has happened.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Posted

That's certainly one of several issues that needs to be investigated. Personally, I suspect Moose is closer to the truth, in suggesting that it might have been due to a more widespread "liberal" culture of anti-racism taken too far so that people saw that as too high a priority (ahead of widespread criminal child abuse?!?) and were scared of being accused of racism. The fact that the "blind eye" culture took in paid council officials and the South Yorks police tends to support this. Likewise, the fact that a similar outrage occurred on a smaller scale under Tory/Lib Dem run Derby Council suggests that these "blind eye" attitudes weren't limited to the Labour Party...though the Labour Party is certainly at the forefront of the organisations that need to ask themselves serious questions.

 

Would be good if you could either back up your accusation that I "condone completely unacceptable behaviour because "it is their [Pakistanis'] culture" or withdraw it. I don't see where I've said anything remotely like that. I've repeatedly condemned the behaviour in question and re-quoted my earlier comment specifically arguing the opposite! You seem to have overlooked or ignored that....

 

Yes fair enough, I wasn't intending to suggest you condone anything at all, and reading back you clearly didn't. 

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Koke

Koke

Posted
Posted

I despair, i'm going to have beer as according to the Koran, ..what my right hand possess!!

 

If it was a group of white men that groomed muslim girls, would this be the case???

 

The beer is in my left hand. My right hand possesses something else as I knock one out to Nicki Minaj. 

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Koke

Koke

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untanned. :)

 

You get white pimps who prey on vulnerable young girls. It is part of the 'pimp' culture.

 

The race baiting is a problem. As I said earlier, there is a strong element of misogyny in Pakistani culture, which needs to be combated and fought against. "Culture" is not an excuse for abuse and sexual exploitation. That part of your culture needs to be eradicated. And religion isnt an excuse either. I have zero time for religion. Im an Atheist but was brought up in a Muslim household, so Im well aware of the sheer misogyny that is promoted in Islam. 

 

I see it more as a "male" problem than an ethnic/religious problem. History is littered with men abusing children/women en masse. Case in point, when an Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members was busted, and the culprits where mainly Brits & Australians.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42108748/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/massive-online-pedophile-ring-busted-cops/#.VAnD8_mSzkI

 

​We need to be more sophisticated in tackling this problem in a sensible practical way, rather than what I see in this thread.

 

And before anyone says it, no, Im not a Labour voter and never have been.

Edited by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
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Koke

Koke

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Posted

I'm aleftie with my beer aswell. How you keeping these days, not seen you on here for a while.

 

Been travelling for a lot, a bit all over the place., How have you been? Hope all is well with you, my friend. :)

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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Posted (edited)

The race baiting is a problem. As I said earlier, there is a strong element of misogyny in Pakistani culture, which needs to be combated and fought against. "Culture" is not an excuse for abuse and sexual exploitation. That part of your culture needs to be eradicated. And religion isnt an excuse either. I have zero time for religion. Im an Atheist but was brought up in a Muslim household, so Im well aware of the sheer misogyny that is promoted in Islam. 

 

I see it more as a "male" problem than an ethnic/religious problem. History is littered with men abusing children/women en masse. Case in point, when an Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members was busted, and the culprits where mainly Brits & Australians.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42108748/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/massive-online-pedophile-ring-busted-cops/#.VAnD8_mSzkI

 

​We need to be more sophisticated in tackling this problem in a sensible practical way, rather than what I see in this thread.

 

And before anyone says it, no, Im not a Labour voter and never have been.

I tend to agree with you (I'm more of a liberal than labour)

 

I am an atheist too but I am sure all Pakistannis do not condone child rape. I worked with one and he was a very nice person, was polite and never had a bad word for anybody. Once he was mistaken for someone else in a bike theft and held at a police station for questioning. He said he felt he had brought shame on his family even though he was eventually released with no charge. I do not defend what these people did and I have no doubt there is a male dominance culture thing. Up to the women's lib days it was the same with White British. Not to the extremes that what went on though. I remember my mum making endless cups off teas while my dad sat in an armchair watching horse racing and smoking 50-60 fags a day. I cannot remember him making a cup of tea or going in the kitchen. My step dad was the opposite. No sooner had you drank up he would take the cup into the kitchen to wash up. He though us lazy but mellowed over the years a little.

I would rather look at the crimes first. To say it is a culture thing does not excuse it and I am sure as well as those that knew what was going on and tried to hide it for whatever reason there were as many who did not know and would have been outraged at cover ups if they knew.

Edited by Rincewind
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Rincewind

Rincewind

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Do not call me a liar please. I worked with him as I sais so that is how I knew him. He owned a similar bike to that of another.

I do not see what is wrong with that. I was just illustrating that not all Pakistanis are child abusers. If you wish to gereralise Then go ahwad but do not make fun of me for having an open mind. I was commenting on kareem's post who made somw very good and well thought out points.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

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On right now:

 

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/pakistans-hidden-shame-documentary-to-air-on-channel-4

 

Pakistan's Hidden Shame documentary to air on Channel 4
28 APR 2014NEWS RELEASES
 

Pakistan is one of the world's most important Muslim nations, a nuclear power, which is allied to the West in the war against terror and a democracy. But Pakistan is also a country in denial, turning a blind eye to the sexual exploitation of many thousands of poor and vulnerable children.

"It’s one of the most sad and shameful aspects of our society. I have to say I’m totally embarrassed by this" Imran Khan

It's estimated that over 4million children across Pakistan are forced to work from an early age due to poverty, of these up to 1.5 million live on the streets with no home to go to. This film focusses on the north-western city of Peshawar, where it is estimated 9 out of every 10 street children have been sexually abused.

[...]

A 2010 UNICEF report suggests that traditional Pakistani cultural values of purity and the protection of women have contributed to men preying on boys. This theory is backed up by some psychologists, who suggest that the attraction to young boys stems from the segregation of the sexes, where women are perceived as the inferior gender, rarely seen in public and with very few rights. A recent World Economic Forum report named Pakistan the second worst country in the world when it comes to equal opportunities for women.

'A woman is a thing you keep at home' says Ejaz, a bus conductor 'you can't take women out because people stare at them - they're useless things; you have to show propriety and chasteness with them. You can take boys around anywhere with you and it isn't a big deal.'

We follow 13 year old Naeem, whose parents died when he was 8. His older brother began beating him and he ran away from home. He has now been addicted to heroin for five years and frequently sells his body to fund his habit. Pakistan has over 1million heroin users, and over 30% of those who inject the drug are HIV positive.

[...]

One of the biggest problems is that police on the ground are often caught up with Taliban attacks and the safety of the children isn't a priority. In the last five years approximately 700 policemen have been killed in terrorist attacks. The ever increasing terrorism in Pakistan has come to a breaking point; the security agencies are too busy trying to protect against terrorism to enforce the laws of the land. They claim it is very difficult for them to go out and protect street children.

Pakistan’s Hidden Shame will open the eyes of the world to the dark underbelly of moral degradation that permeates not just this city, but many others including Karachi, Lahore, Rawalpindi and even the nation's capital, Islamabad.

“It’s going on everywhere. In the big cities, or small cities, towns. Everywhere this is happening.” Zia Awan, lawyer and child rights activist”

Pakistan’s Hidden Shame was produced almost entirely by a Pakistani production team. The film has the full co-operation of local charity workers trying to help the children involved. Written and produced by double-Emmy Award winner Jamie Doran, and directed by Special Emmy Winner Mohammed Al Naqvi. The film is narrated by Juliet Stevenson. TX June 2014

 

 

This is horrid and scary, how shameful, i hope those feckers that protest at trafalgar square everyday at the wests so called treatment of muslims in afghan, get outside the pakistan embassy and do something about it!!

 

Only just saw this last night on catch-up TV, Doctor. Truly horrendous! Here's a link for anyone who wants to watch it, but don't do so if you're feeling depressed: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/pakistans-hidden-shame/4od

 

The text that Dr. The Singh quotes (above) has the gist and I've put some main points in bold.

 

It's not girls that are getting raped and abused in Pakistan, it seems, but the thousands of street boys....vulnerable children, as in Rotherham, just males due to the rigid division of the sexes in Pakistani society. Misogynistic attitudes towards women are clearly implicated in the problem, though, as is the nature of Islam over there. It seems to be taught in a very crude form, a bit like old-style "hell-fire" Christian preaching: fear Allah, pray 5 times per day, follow the rules, don't think, view women as remote, virginal creatures to be "respected" yet despised etc. No wonder there's a pretty clear parallel with some of the abuse that has occurred within the Catholic Church in Ireland and the USA.

 

Watching this programme was not a pleasant experience - numerous blokes openly admitting that they'd repeatedly raped boys aged 7 upwards. But it does help you understand a bit more about how outrages like Rotherham can come about. It clearly is a widespread culture in Pakistan, and one that society and the mosques turn a blind eye to.

 

While you do end up understanding more the mentality and society behind all this, the programme doesn't really explain how this all started. I've not heard of, say Bangladeshi or Palestinian Muslims getting involved in child abuse in this country (or in their own), despite the problems they have. So what's different about Pakistan? Is Islam taught differently there, or is it just that society there has degenerated due to years of street poverty, heroin abuse, political chaos - and now regular terrorist outrages by Islamists from Afghanistan and the border areas?

 

Don't expect to enjoy this if you watch it, but it is certainly an eye-opener. Thanks for recommending, Dr. Singh.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

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Clegg clearly did say/write something: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-teaching-british-values-in-schools-could-upset-moderate-muslims-9552742.html

 

However, reading that, there's not a lot that I'd disagree with. As he says, any promotion of "British values" in schools shouldn't just be directed at Muslims as a targeted punitive measure, but at everyone, including Muslims, as an inclusive, educational measure.

 

Of course, defining precisely what "British values" are is to open a whole can of worms..

However, hopefully we're talking about pretty basic stuff: democracy, freedom of speech, respect for other beliefs, good neighbourliness, women's right to play different roles in society, the right of children not to suffer abuse...

If so, I don't see it as a problem for those values to be promoted to everyone in schools.

 

There should be tolerance for different religious/cultural practices so long as they don't infringe the law or basic rights, but infringements of accepted values should be prevented: e.g. It's fine to have an arranged marriage if you want, but not a forced marriage, female genital mutilation or child abuse....

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davieG

davieG

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Did he actually say that though? I'm always suspicious of that sort of thing, probably some sort of political smear.

Don't know but I guess it's the sort of idea thats been sad in one form or another by people with influence  not that I'm convinced one can define British Values

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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Did he actually say that though? I'm always suspicious of that sort of thing, probably some sort of political smear.

Maybe they should teach Secular values to all.I doubt he would know that for certain. It says moderate Muslims whom I assume have decent values to start with and taught within their family. Probably misquoted and the picture is used to have a go at him.

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MooseBreath

MooseBreath

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Typical of someone like Clegg to jump in and be offended on behalf of other people. Was there ever a suggestion that the teaching of British values would be aimed at Muslims? I doubt it very much. He's just picked that angle out of thin air purely so he could take offence.

I'm glad to see that Clegg's comments are from before the Rotherham debacle. I would hope that even the left wing press are giving that kind of nonsense a very wide birth from now on. The left need to play this whole thing very carefully if they're to recover a modicum of respectability within the next few years. Clegg coming out with crap like that post-Rotherham could provoke a backlash that spells the end of popular liberal thinking in this country, and that would be a shame because it would deny youngsters their liberal phase and opportunity to learn from experience why they were so wrong about everything.

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