Guest Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Sorry yes, that's me lumping public sector workers in with people on benefits again. Says it all really.
Charl91 Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Sorry yes, that's me lumping public sector workers in with people on benefits again. What I mean is we'll see protests from people who receive less public money and they'll be protesting about receiving less public money and nothing more. There will be very little ideological opposition to spending cuts but we will see some people directly affected complaining about it. You may find this a difficult concept to grasp, lacking empathy about anything that directly affects you, but some people actually do care about things which don't directly affect them.I'd be greatly opposed to cuts in the fire service or police service, for example, and I've never even used either of them, let alone work for them.
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 You may find this a difficult concept to grasp, lacking empathy about anything that directly affects you, but some people actually do care about things which don't directly affect them.I'd be greatly opposed to cuts in the fire service or police service, for example, and I've never even used either of them, let alone work for them. Of course the fire and police service directly affect you.
Guest Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Of course the fire and police service directly affect you. All public employees do!
Rincewind Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 You may find this a difficult concept to grasp, lacking empathy about anything that directly affects you, but some people actually do care about things which don't directly affect them.I'd be greatly opposed to cuts in the fire service or police service, for example, and I've never even used either of them, let alone work for them. Just as you were saying. Firefighters cry as their statiom of 109 years closes due to cutbacks. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/firefighters-cry-as-10-london-stations-including-clerkenwell-close-due-to-cuts-9050079.html
Guest Bilo Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 No, they don't. So which private company runs the emergency services, provides your medical care, teaches your kids, mends the roads in your area and keeps the streets clear of litter and dog shit?
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Just as you were saying. Firefighters cry as their statiom of 109 years closes due to cutbacks. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/firefighters-cry-as-10-london-stations-including-clerkenwell-close-due-to-cuts-9050079.html Fire safety has come so far that we don't need the same stations as we had 140 years ago. What would you suggest we do, just keep them running forever, paying firefighters to do nothing?
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 So which private company runs the emergency services, provides your medical care, teaches your kids, mends the roads in your area and keeps the streets clear of litter and dog shit? That doesn't represent every public employee.
Rincewind Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Fire safety has come so far that we don't need the same stations as we had 140 years ago. What would you suggest we do, just keep them running forever, paying firefighters to do nothing? well they will be paid to be job seekers now.
Guest Bilo Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 That doesn't represent every public employee. It represents a very significant portion of public sector employees who protest against the government cuts, people for whom you have the utmost contempt protesting against cuts you enthusiastically embrace.
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 well they will be paid to be job seekers now. Who knows, the article is 18 months old, they've probably all got new jobs now.
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 It represents a very significant portion of public sector employees who protest against the government cuts, people for whom you have the utmost contempt protesting against cuts you enthusiastically embrace.I haven't noticed any particular increase in dog shit, soiI can't say the cuts have affected me at all.
Rincewind Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 What you are saying then is if the cuts do not affect you then you are happy that they affect thousands of others?
Guest Bilo Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 It's lunacy to think that deeper cuts won't have any impact on frontline public services. Even if you are wholly self-centred and blind to others' issues, further cuts will affect you.
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 What you are saying then is if the cuts do not affect you then you are happy that they affect thousands of others? I'm happy for cuts to affect a few if it means saving the many from unsustainable debt.
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 It's lunacy to think that deeper cuts won't have any impact on frontline public services. Even if you are wholly self-centred and blind to others' issues, further cuts will affect you. Plenty of inefficiency to drive out yet. Best way to do that is cut funding. Let's wait and see. We're five years into what were supposedly going to be ruinous cuts. Crimes is down, education results have improved, I personally haven't noticed any more dogshit or pot holes.
Guest Bilo Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Crime has been steadily falling constantly since 1997 and education results, especially last year, were down dramatically. The English GCSE results in particular were a national scandal in education, especially considering how vital that particular qualification is to access a wider range of courses at Sixth Form (Level 3 courses and A Level courses almost universally demand a C grade and obtaining a university place without a C is extremely tough), and staff morale is on its knees with 50% of teachers leaving within three of qualifying so it seems a bit bizarre to proclaim education as a Tory success. I actually consider the failure of Labour to make education part of the electoral agenda a serious error, as it would have been so easy to pull apart Michael Gove's catastrophic tenure as Education Secretary. http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/aug/21/gcses-grades-results-pupils-pain-michael-gove
Guest Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 I'm happy for cuts to affect a few if it means saving the many from unsustainable debt. Cuts to tax avoidance? Cuts to hyperwages? Cuts to corporation profits?
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Cuts to tax avoidance? Cuts to hyperwages? Cuts to corporation profits? No I don't think any of those things should be cut. Tax evasion yes, and some but not all forms of tax avoidance. I'm pleased the tories are seriously working on this now after it was ignored for so many years under the Labour. I certainly don't want to see less successful businesses, and while I don't understand exactly what you mean by "hyperwages", I don't think it's anyone's right to tell a private business that they can't choose to pay people high wages if they think they're worth it.
Guest Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 No I don't think any of those things should be cut. Tax evasion yes, and some but not all forms of tax avoidance. I'm pleased the tories are seriously working on this now after it was ignored for so many years under the Labour. I certainly don't want to see less successful businesses, and while I don't understand exactly what you mean by "hyperwages", I don't think it's anyone's right to tell a private business that they can't choose to pay people high wages if they think they're worth it. So, in fact, this I'm happy for cuts to affect a few if it means saving the many from unsustainable debt. was a lie.
SMX11 Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Crime has been steadily falling constantly since 1997 and education results, especially last year, were down dramatically. The English GCSE results in particular were a national scandal in education, especially considering how vital that particular qualification is to access a wider range of courses at Sixth Form (Level 3 courses and A Level courses almost universally demand a C grade and obtaining a university place without a C is extremely tough), and staff morale is on its knees with 50% of teachers leaving within three of qualifying so it seems a bit bizarre to proclaim education as a Tory success. I actually consider the failure of Labour to make education part of the electoral agenda a serious error, as it would have been so easy to pull apart Michael Gove's catastrophic tenure as Education Secretary. http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/aug/21/gcses-grades-results-pupils-pain-michael-gove Education will continue to be poor because of the egalitarians who decided to destroy selective education and undermined the rigours of discipline in the classroom. Unfortunately no serious party would be willing to change this issue.
Guest Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 Education will continue to be poor because of the egalitarians who decided to destroy selective education and undermined the rigours of discipline in the classroom. Unfortunately no serious party would be willing to change this issue. What do you mean by "selective education"?
MooseBreath Posted 10 May 2015 Posted 10 May 2015 So, in fact, this was a lie. No, you're just being deliberately pedantic because you've got nothing better to offer.
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