cjslcfc Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 If, for the sake of argument, we go down and Pearson takes up back up again we'll find ourselves in the same situation. What is the point in keeping a man good enough for one level and not good enough for the other? Then Pearson gets much less time to get us in a decent position in the league. In my mind, he certainly won't get the patience he's had this season because the "lack of experience" argument won't wash so much. He will have had a year in the Premier League and if he again shows himself as poor at this level he will be replaced. This time, however, the new man would come in fairly early in the season and have plenty of time to sort us out should we be struggling. Now you could argue that gives him an incentive not to get us up. Personally, I think Pearson will want to manage at the top level and therefore will do everything to get us back up and prove a point.
kingfox Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Great post. The only thing I'd say about Cardiff and Wigan is that we hopefully will be in a different situation to them. Solskjaer hadn't got a clue how to run a Championship club and get it to compete at the top, despite the quality squad at that level. Not sure what's happened at Wigan but the new manager there has hardly helped either! Added to that Norwich, who changed to Neil Adams towards the end of last season, had struggled despite having a very good squad as well. Now with the right man in charge they are pushing up the table. Personally, we have to look at it from the point of view of being relegated. If we got the right man to replace Nige then it may well be a sensible option. Otherwise it seems counter-intuitive to throw away someone who has the experience and achievements to succeed in the Championship like Pearson does. You'd have to get a damn good replacement to get near to what he has achieved in the Championship (and most of those men will probably end up in the Premier League next season!). As you say, if we get relegated then what he has done in the past becomes completely relevant to our situation. I was surprised about Solskjaer, thought he would do a good job in English Football, he still might. On Nigel again though, this season he has proved that he isn't tactically astute enough for this level, in the Championship you would get away with 4-4-2, because that's what the majority of teams play at that level, we also had better quality in terms of players therefore we did well. At Premier League level teams play all sorts of formations, in some games 4-4-2 might be the answer in others 4-5-1, 5-4-1 or a diamond midfield, you have to be flexible and he has definitely done that, but for me has played the wrong formation in the wrong games. Take Palace away this season and those games around that time, he stuck with the formation that worked against Man Utd; however against teams like Palace it was simply the wrong formation to play, our full-backs had no support and we as fans knew what was going to happen, Bolasie and Puncheon then unsurprisingly had a field day. Next season if he stays, he will probably stick with 4-4-2, while it may work again and might achieve us promotion, come the season after that we will still have Pearson as manager, do we give him another chance? In my opinion I wouldn't take the risk.
teblin Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 We're down, accept it. Most probably yes. But its not over till its over.
the-blue-wildabeast Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Agree completely!!!! We have winnable games at home, we just need to start doing so. So we keep hearing and like yesterday, and last few home games, please remind me how many 'winnable' games we have won so far??
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 So we keep hearing and like yesterday, and last few home games, please remind me how many 'winnable' games we have won so far?? Four.
ADK Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Alan Curbishley Peter Reid (took 2 seasons) Steve Bruce Are the managers that have done it. Interestingly they all then went on to do quite well in the Premier league after that, so sacking Pearson after another promotion probably isn't sensible.
hackneyfox Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This season we've gotten worse, not better. The entire logic of Pearson will learn is predicated by the fact that as he'll learn and improve, the evidence of this season doesn't bear that out. Other sides have learn't, other sides have improved, we haven't, we've regressed. I posted many moons ago that last season we benefitted from having better players, that we'd never seemingly had to out think our opponents rather we'd simply steam rollered them with better players. This season when nouse and tactics have been needed we've come up short every single time. I am grateful for what Pearson achieved last season, I am not at all grateful for what has happened this season. ThisInclined to think we got promoted despite Pearson's tactics and substitutions last season. To be fair it was his back room boys that identified and signed the players.
fleckneymike Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 PAY ATTENTION!!!!! 2008/9 season - Pearson appointed 2008/9 season - League one champions 2009/10 season - longest unbeaten home record IN THE COUNTRY! 2009/10 season - Championship playoffs 2011/12 season - 2nd spell, appointed in November (12th at the time), finished 9th. 2012/13 season - Championship playoffs 2013/14 season - Championship champions 2014-15 season - Premier league (at the mo!) I fail to see why everyone is so negative about Nigel! Yes he does come across appallingly at times but no one in their right mind can judge him on anything other than the football (see above). We have graced the premiership with our presence again FINALLY after a decade of Championship mediocrity and all people want to do is complain! Majority of these comments sound as though they have been read from a newspaper and frankly it is embarrassing! We are in the premier league, with a long way to go and a lot of points to play for. Most weeks we are competing against a well established team who for the last 10 years or so have been our superior. So why is it now OK to expect Leicester to surpass them? PEOPLE NEED TO BE REALISTIC! I understand that as fans we pay good money to go and watch but sport is never guaranteed. Regardless of the 'financial backing' we have been made aware of (majority of it is to stabilize and improve the club within the FFP laws not just a huge pot of cash for Nigel to spend!) Get behind the team and stop claiming to know what is best for the club! What will be will be lets at least go out with a fight! Also how cack was Upson on Saturday by the way????????? 2014/15 season - 16 defeats, 4 draws and 4 wins. 2 of those wins and 2 of those draws came in the first 8 games. We have 9 points from 20 games. We have 17 points in total. Being realistic, that is really really reall shit.
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This Inclined to think we got promoted despite Pearson's tactics and substitutions last season. To be fair it was his back room boys that identified and signed the players. Behave. Look at the amount of points we took last season from losing positions. You don't win a competitive league with 102 points if you have a manager making bad decisions.
Wortho Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This season we've gotten worse, not better. The entire logic of Pearson will learn is predicated by the fact that as he'll learn and improve, the evidence of this season doesn't bear that out. Other sides have learn't, other sides have improved, we haven't, we've regressed. I posted many moons ago that last season we benefitted from having better players, that we'd never seemingly had to out think our opponents rather we'd simply steam rollered them with better players. This season when nouse and tactics have been needed we've come up short every single time. I am grateful for what Pearson achieved last season, I am not at all grateful for what has happened this season. Exactly what I was thinking, great post.
fleckneymike Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This Inclined to think we got promoted despite Pearson's tactics and substitutions last season. To be fair it was his back room boys that identified and signed the players. I always feel that is slightly disengenuous, he appointed the staff, he has final approval on signings. We got promoted because of Pearson's tactics, signings and backroom staff. This season we're getting relegated for exactly the same reasons.
cjslcfc Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 I was surprised about Solskjaer, thought he would do a good job in English Football, he still might. On Nigel again though, this season he has proved that he isn't tactically astute enough for this level, in the Championship you would get away with 4-4-2, because that's what the majority of teams play at that level, we also had better quality in terms of players therefore we did well. At Premier League level teams play all sorts of formations, in some games 4-4-2 might be the answer in others 4-5-1, 5-4-1 or a diamond midfield, you have to be flexible and he has definitely done that, but for me has played the wrong formation in the wrong games. Take Palace away this season and those games around that time, he stuck with the formation that worked against Man Utd; however against teams like Palace it was simply the wrong formation to play, our full-backs had no support and we as fans knew what was going to happen, Bolasie and Puncheon then unsurprisingly had a field day. Next season if he stays, he will probably stick with 4-4-2, while it may work again and might achieve us promotion, come the season after that we will still have Pearson as manager, do we give him another chance? In my opinion I wouldn't take the risk. See my post above about Pearson should we come back up... Regarding the formations stuff I'd have to agree. While noble, his insistence on trying to keep continuity with a formation that worked one game has cost us. The United win then Palace loss is a great example. Matching United up in a one off game worked well, even if it was a freak game. To then play that against a side that relies on width and tricky wingers, exposing the full backs, was completely nonsensical. Take Sunday's game as well. We set up with 5 at the back because it worked vs. Arsenal very well. That's because Arsenal are a very attacking side and flooding the defence against their attacking players was a good tactic. We then do the same against a team that struggles to score and create chances with possession. I think it was completely the wrong thing to do. We needed to stop them getting the ball in the middle and take advantage of their drained confidence going forward. We didn't need 3 CBs. IMO, we needed another midfielder to get more of the ball in the middle and to help us play it around nicely along the floor between midfield and attack like we know we can do. The formation gave us nothing going forward and only served to help us give the ball away all game because we hit it long to KRAMARIC due to a lack of options from midfield for the defenders. This mounted the pressure on us and we eventually folded. The folding may have happened when we went 4-4-2 but we had already put so much pressure on ourselves that it seemed the goal was going to come in that half because we couldn't keep the ball!
the-blue-wildabeast Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Four. Exactly, and two were very lucky although you can balance that with a few games we deserved to win, but after 2/3rds of the season we have won 4 games, and of the teams we are directly competing with at the bottom we have won two, so if we are lucky we may finish the season on about 6/7 wins which isnt going to keep us up.
Izzy muzzit Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 2014/15 season - 16 defeats, 4 draws and 4 wins. 2 of those wins and 2 of those draws came in the first 8 games. We have 9 points from 20 games. We have 17 points in total. Being realistic, that is really really reall shit. In comparison to??? Man City? Chelsea? For other teams who have been promoted before Its usually the case...hence why newly promoted teams are always the bookies favorite to go back down
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Exactly, and two were very lucky although you can balance that with a few games we deserved to win, but after 2/3rds of the season we have won 4 games, and of the teams we are directly competing with at the bottom we have won two, so if we are lucky we may finish the season on about 6/7 wins which isnt going to keep us up. Yeah I agree I think we're going down.
fleckneymike Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 In comparison to??? Man City? Chelsea? For other teams who have been promoted before Its usually the case...hence why newly promoted teams are always the bookies favorite to go back down In comparison to the under resourced Burnley. In comparison to QPR who scraped up luckily via the play offs are ahead of us having only acrued 3 points away from home. In comparison to the O'Neil side, in comparison to the Micky Adam's side who signed only free transfers, heck, even in comparison to Little's side. In comparison to Hull who came up last year and finshed on 37 points or Palace on 45. The only side we aren't doing shit in comparison to is the **** awful Derby side of Billy Davis
inckley fox Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 In comparison to??? Man City? Chelsea? For other teams who have been promoted before Its usually the case...hence why newly promoted teams are always the bookies favorite to go back down No it isn't usually the case. Over two thirds of promoted sides have stayed up over the past half dozen years. Alan Curbishley Peter Reid (took 2 seasons) Steve Bruce Are the managers that have done it. Interestingly they all then went on to do quite well in the Premier league after that, so sacking Pearson after another promotion probably isn't sensible. But they are exceptions to the rule. And it's a little disheartening to think Pearson should aspire to be as good as Bruce or Peter Reid.
cjslcfc Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Anyone who believes we haven't underachieved needs to seriously think about what they actually wanted from this season. Underachievement doesn't always equate to sacking though. We have to be realistic about things and it's a tough balancing act between thinking change might do us good but also realising we have one of the better Championship managers already at the club. As sad as it seems, we can't just sack him because he's done crap this season as it may not be beneficial should we get relegated.
Monsell1976 Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Why is it that Nigel Pearson will be the best man to lead a promotion push next season? There is not a shred of evidence to suggest he will (or won't in the interest of fairness). In my lifetime I have seen the loyalty approach fail more times then it has succeeded, I can only think of one person who has got a team relegated from the Premier League and promoted from the Championship in back to back seasons. Alan Curbishley at Charlton. Failed attempts include Mickey Adams at Leicester, Paul Jewell at Derby, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer at Cardiff, Felix Magath at Fulham. Can anybody add to these lists or provide any evidence to support this theory that doesn't involve dwelling on the past?Because Pearson is Mr Leicester city, and is the only manager in the world who could get us promoted, ever !!!!!!!!!!
Izzy muzzit Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 In comparison to the under resourced Burnley. In comparison to QPR who scraped up luckily via the play offs are ahead of us having only acrued 3 points away from home. In comparison to the O'Neil side, in comparison to the Micky Adam's side who signed only free transfers, heck, even in comparison to Little's side. In comparison to Hull who came up last year and finshed on 37 points or Palace on 45. The only side we aren't doing shit in comparison to is the **** awful Derby side of Billy Davis Lest we forget it is the bottom 3 that get relegated of which Burnley are in and QPR will be in when we play ourselves out! There are obviously a handful of anomalies just like the one you have suggested! Mate anyone could trawl the internet and show you a number of sides who we can be compared to but i haven't got all day to write it all up, including Derby! That same Micky Adams side who ended up midway back in the championship?
Izzy muzzit Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 No it isn't usually the case. Over two thirds of promoted sides have stayed up over the past half dozen years. But they are exceptions to the rule. And it's a little disheartening to think Pearson should aspire to be as good as Bruce or Peter Reid. So a third have? My point has been validated!
fleckneymike Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 Lest we forget it is the bottom 3 that get relegated of which Burnley are in and QPR will be in when we play ourselves out! There are obviously a handful of anomalies just like the one you have suggested! Mate anyone could trawl the internet and show you a number of sides who we can be compared to but i haven't got all day to write it all up, including Derby! That same Micky Adams side who ended up midway back in the championship? So your argument is you could prove your argument if you could be bothered. Brilliant, cheers. No one has forgotten that the remaining bottom three could well be Burnley and QPR, I doubt anyone has forgotten that we finished miles ahead of them last season yet here we are beneath both. The only logical conclusion is that they have got better and we haven't. So a third have? My point has been validated! No side to have acrued 100+ points have ever been relegated in their first season. Point not vindicated.
dogadug Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This Inclined to think we got promoted despite Pearson's tactics and substitutions last season. To be fair it was his back room boys that identified and signed the players. This is a joke, right?? A team finishing with the 2nd highest points tally in championship history had nothing to do with the manager? I can understand why a certain proportion of the fanbase have started to turn on Pearson but it saddens me thinking of those fans who have never liked NP and always wanted him to fail who are now all surfacing.
Izzy muzzit Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 So your argument is you could prove your argument if you could be bothered. Brilliant, cheers. No one has forgotten that the remaining bottom three could well be Burnley and QPR, I doubt anyone has forgotten that we finished miles ahead of them last season yet here we are beneath both. The only logical conclusion is that they have got better and we haven't. Tick, it's a long process and I have wasted too much time already! I don't necessarily think that they have got better they have just picked up points where we could still do with the remaining 13 or so games!
cc_star Posted 16 February 2015 Posted 16 February 2015 This Inclined to think we got promoted despite Pearson's tactics and substitutions last season. To be fair it was his back room boys that identified and signed the players. Comments like this make it easy to know whose comments to completely ignore
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.