Mark_w Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 Do you really believe this deep down? If you answer 'no' to the question 'Do you believe Muslims should obey British law?' I just can't believe for a second the answer is being based on objections to certain aspects of it. If I was asked, do you think British people should always obey the law? Then I probably wouldn't answer yes. Because I think there are certain circumstances where breaking an incredibly small number of British laws is justified. If the word always wasn't in there then I'd probably agree with you because generally yes we should obey British laws. It's difficult because people will interpret all of these questions in different ways, I don't think we should be that worried that 6% don't believe Muslims should always obey British laws though, because (and no I don't have hard evidence to back it up) I think that it's a very small minority of that 6% that would advocate serious crimes.
Mark_w Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 I think this is the worst one: Acts of violence against those who publish images of the prophet Muhammad can never be justified. In other words, the opposite of "are violent attacks on people who publish images justified" Only 68% agreed with the original premise. That's 32% who do believe that violent attacks on people who publish such images are justified. Not sure how anyone can spin themselves out of that. But I'm sure some will have a go It's not 32%, it's 24%. 6% voted don't know, 1% refused to answer and 1% seems to have gone missing? But I agree, that one's ridiculous. How people can one minute say the law must always be obeyed, and the next say violence over an image can be justified I don't know.
Guest MattP Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 If I was asked, do you think British people should always obey the law? Then I probably wouldn't answer yes. Because I think there are certain circumstances where breaking an incredibly small number of British laws is justified. If the word always wasn't in there then I'd probably agree with you because generally yes we should obey British laws. It's difficult because people will interpret all of these questions in different ways, I don't think we should be that worried that 6% don't believe Muslims should always obey British laws though, because (and no I don't have hard evidence to back it up) I think that it's a very small minority of that 6% that would advocate serious crimes. I'd answer no to that as well. I'm happy to see people flout certain laws but if the question was a general should people obey British law of course the answer would be a yes. The lengths people go to to try and defend pretty obscene beliefs on a large scale as soon as it's Muslims spouting them never fails to amaze or baffle me. It's like some have nailed thier colours to the wall of the '0.001%' club and refuse to change them despite the obvious glaring them in the face.
Mark_w Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 I'd answer no to that as well. I'm happy to see people flout certain laws but if the question was a general should people obey British law of course the answer would be a yes. The lengths people go to to try and defend pretty obscene beliefs on a large scale as soon as it's Muslims spouting them never fails to amaze or baffle me. It's like some have nailed thier colours to the wall of the '0.001%' club and refuse to change them despite the obvious glaring them in the face. Well the question wasn't general, it was whether they should always obey British law, so I don't see how you can take much issue with my interpretation of that one. I'm not defending the obscene beliefs of the people who hold them. I just disagree with the scale implied by you and the title of this thread. It's just an outright lie to say that 27% of British Muslims support terrorist attacks.
Stadt Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 2% feel loyal to Britain but don't want to obey British laws
bovril Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 2% feel loyal to Britain but don't want to obey British laws That's kind of how I feel though. Just without the loyalty to Britain bit.
Darkon84 Posted 25 February 2015 Posted 25 February 2015 Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but this seems as good a place as any. A bit more to discuss..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31629543 Austria passes controversial reforms to 1912 Islam law The Austrian parliament has passed controversial reforms to the country's century-old law on Islam. The bill, which is partly aimed at tackling Islamist radicalism, gives Muslims more legal security but bans foreign funding for mosques and imams. Austria's Integration Minister, Sebastian Kurz, defended the reforms but Muslim leaders say they fail they to treat them equally. The 1912 law made Islam an official religion in Austria. It has been widely held up as a model for Europe in dealing with Islam. The new measures, first proposed three years ago, include the protection of religious holidays and training for imams. But Muslim groups say the ban on foreign funding is unfair as international support is still permitted for the Christian and Jewish faiths. They say the legalisation reflects a widespread mistrust of Muslims and some are planning to contest it in the constitutional court. Mr Kurz told the BBC the reforms were a "milestone" for Austria and aimed to stop certain Muslim countries using financial means to exert "political influence". "What we want is to reduce the political influence and control from abroad and we want to give Islam the chance to develop freely within our society and in line with our common European values," he said. Mr Kurz also stressed the bill was not a reaction to recent attacks by Islamic extremists in France and Denmark. Meanwhile the legislation has drawn wide reaction from Muslims across the world, with Turkey's head of religious affairs, Mehmet Gormez, adding his condemnation on Tuesday. "Austria will go back 100 years in freedom with its Islam bill," Mr Gormez said, according to Turkey's state-funded Anadolu news agency. Roughly half a million Muslims live in Austria today, around 6% of the population. Many of them have Turkish or Bosnian roots. The parliamentary vote in Austria came as the French government announced plans to improve dialogue with France's Muslim community. French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said the government would increase consultations with Muslim leaders. It would also double the number of university courses for imams - making them obligatory for Islamic chaplains in prisons and the armed forces - to ensure they are "faithful to the values of the Republic", he said.
C-man Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 What Renart said. Word for word. In my opinion, freedom of speech has to have limits. If you continue to incite any group of people you are eventually going to go too far with a lunatic faction of said group and sadly suffer the consequences. That's the way of the world. These type of surveys fvck me off. Where's the equivalent for non-Muslims because I bet the percentage on the some sympathies for the motives question wouldn't be far off 27% but there would be ZERO written about that.
Finnegan Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Thought that was a brilliant post from Renart, to be fair, and a shame a few of its target audience seemed to skim by it. By the by, is Renart the former squaddie or am I getting my people muddled?
Guest MattP Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Thought that was a brilliant post from Renart, to be fair, and a shame a few of its target audience seemed to skim by it. By the by, is Renart the former squaddie or am I getting my people muddled? I think what a lot of people can't get there head around is why Islam is treated with such exaggerated respect when it comes to issues like this. Christians complained to Ofcom about the xmas cover of private eye, they were rightly told to go forth. No one would consider bothering to defend their right to be offended but as soon as Muslims are on the receiving end people form an orderly queue to defend their viewpoint no matter how ridiculous it is. I absolutely despair when I see people saying freedom of speech should have it's limits, an incredibly dangerous road to go down, even more so as well when it comes to religion, we should encourage questioning on that. What we are really seeing is a fifth column at the minute in Britain and across Europe that is seeking to silence any criticism of the Islamic faith and in particular the prophet muhammad and its unbelievable some people are falling for it behind the veil of claiming freedom of speech should have it's limits. We need Large Al in these threads.
leicsmac Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 I think what a lot of people can't get there head around is why Islam is treated with such exaggerated respect when it comes to issues like this. Christians complained to Ofcom about the xmas cover of private eye, they were rightly told to go forth. No one would consider bothering to defend their right to be offended but as soon as Muslims are on the receiving end people form an orderly queue to defend their viewpoint no matter how ridiculous it is. I absolutely despair when I see people saying freedom of speech should have it's limits, an incredibly dangerous road to go down, even more so as well when it comes to religion, we should encourage questioning on that. What we are really seeing is a fifth column at the minute in Britain and across Europe that is seeking to silence any criticism of the Islamic faith and in particular the prophet muhammad and its unbelievable some people are falling for it behind the veil of claiming freedom of speech should have it's limits. We need Large Al in these threads. As much as what you're saying here is reasonable, isn't it missing the point of Renarts post? As he said, what do you think would be the result of a poll asking the question "Do you have sympathy for the motives behind an attack on a group of people who burned the British flag?" It might not be 27% but I think it might not be far off.
Guest MattP Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 As much as what you're saying here is reasonable, isn't it missing the point of Renarts post? As he said, what do you think would be the result of a poll asking the question "Do you have sympathy for the motives behind an attack on a group of people who burned the British flag?" It might not be 27% but I think it might not be far off. But as I've said, if the answer is purely based on motive in the way you describe the figures don't add up. How you do get only 27% sympathising with motives and then get nearly 80% wanting people prosecuted for the motives? It's clear to me from that people have taken the question very different to how people think they have from that.
Finnegan Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 How can anything be "clear to you" unless you want it to be? It's a two bit public poll. You know little about the people asked or their understanding of the questions, we know little about the people that compiled the data or what they wanted out of it. If I go and ask every single Muslim in my building (there's a fair few) and 100% say that terrorism is bad and they don't believe in violence would you take those results as seriously?
leicsmac Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 But as I've said, if the answer is purely based on motive in the way you describe the figures don't add up. How you do get only 27% sympathising with motives and then get nearly 80% wanting people prosecuted for the motives? It's clear to me from that people have taken the question very different to how people think they have from that. Again, Finn above has made the point I was going to.
Guest MattP Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 How can anything be "clear to you" unless you want it to be? It's a two bit public poll. You know little about the people asked or their understanding of the questions, we know little about the people that compiled the data or what they wanted out of it. If I go and ask every single Muslim in my building (there's a fair few) and 100% say that terrorism is bad and they don't believe in violence would you take those results as seriously? I think from the difference in percentages to what effectively would be the same answer does make it pretty clear that there is at least some confusion or difference in the way the question is worded, with the explanation being offered up by a few on here we're expected to believe that only 27% have sympathies with people against the drawing of Mohammed but then 80% want people jailed for what's effectively the same thing (and the 80% isn't even in reference to CH it's a direct answer to any depiction of the Prophet). That just doesn't make sense, it has to be the case from that the question to the 27% clearly means more than do you sympathies with those who are against the reasons for the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
Head Honcho Posted 26 February 2015 Author Posted 26 February 2015 Most of these polls are stupid No they're ony stupid if you don't like the outcome. The headline from the beeb was most British Muslims oppose muhammad cartoon reprisals is this also questionable if we use the Finnegan method of reading polls. The lefties will always try and spin a poll like this to suit their own agenda...it's there in black and white 27% of Muslims in this country that's 750000 or 3/4 of a million Muslims have sympathies for the Paris Shootings. It's time you realised that for all the support you give these pigs you'll be lined up and beheaded along with the rest of us....
Samilktray Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Can somebody explain this left/right thing to me. Im presuming im left as im not a blood thirsty anti-muslim type but then ive never really understood what the left/right business all means
Finnegan Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Can somebody explain this left/right thing to me. Im presuming im left as im not a blood thirsty anti-muslim type but then ive never really understood what the left/right business all means Basically, lefties spin polls like this for their agenda but the sensible, non-biased right would never dream of that.
Rincewind Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Basically, lefties spin polls like this for their agenda but the sensible, non-biased right would never dream of that. I was thinking the same thing. I wonder what the posts would be like if the figure was something like 2%? would it be 'obviously carried out by lefties with an agenda' also am not a loony leftie> I don't have much time for any party> I prefer to take the middle ground and not ignore things that are staring me in the face. who would this poll favour when trying to get a message to the electorate? what has this government been saying about terrorists groups? 'Let's get tough, wipe them out there are groups grooming groups. next thing there is a poll showing 275 of Muslims support terrorists.Well that is how the answers are perceived. Politics is just a game played by those in power and those seeking power. People are just pawns.
Guest MattP Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 Can somebody explain this left/right thing to me. Im presuming im left as im not a blood thirsty anti-muslim type but then ive never really understood what the left/right business all means Yeah you're deffo a lefty, how far you wanna go though is up to you. Take the ball and run with it if you want but defending this poll is still pretty normal in terms of leftyness in 2015. Most lefties go a bit further, they'll quote Voltaire until someone says something they don't like or you'll get a mild defence for non-whites engaging in behaviour they otherwise wouldn't tolerate but that's about it. If you want to push the fact you're a real 'ready to shock hard lefty' then you also need to shut your eyes when large portions of the muslim community are caught at the centre of things like child gang rape, even when confronted with hard evidence you completely go into denial and blame the Daily Mail whilst accusing anyone who brings it up of being racist. You're could be on your way to the Morning Star then. Going hardcore is tough these days - all the major remaining battles for equality have now been fought and won over the last 100 years by elders, civil rights activists, suffragettes etc and more recently gay rights so you need to try and find some sexism or racism in something that isn't really there to follow in the footsteps of the ancestors. If you really want to go the whole hog I'd reccommend chasing your local UKIP councillior around town claiming his tweeted about women not being allowed to wear trousers or throw an egg at a local Tory because you heard from a friend of a friend that he once had a black dog called Sooty.
lgfualol Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 No they're ony stupid if you don't like the outcome. The headline from the beeb was most British Muslims oppose muhammad cartoon reprisals is this also questionable if we use the Finnegan method of reading polls. The lefties will always try and spin a poll like this to suit their own agenda...it's there in black and white 27% of Muslims in this country that's 750000 or 3/4 of a million Muslims have sympathies for the Paris Shootings. It's time you realised that for all the support you give these pigs you'll be lined up and beheaded along with the rest of us.... I of course do not, and I do not support individuals that sympathise with extremists. I just support the millions of muslims that live here and are normal human beings, being treated like they're all evil. I am especially close to a muslim family that are as angry/confused as you are. Saying we'll all get beheaded is ridiculous though. You sound brainwashed yourself.
Head Honcho Posted 26 February 2015 Author Posted 26 February 2015 Yeah you're deffo a lefty, how far you wanna go though is up to you. Take the ball and run with it if you want but defending this poll is still pretty normal in terms of leftyness in 2015. Most lefties go a bit further, they'll quote Voltaire until someone says something they don't like or you'll get a mild defence for non-whites engaging in behaviour they otherwise wouldn't tolerate but that's about it. If you want to push the fact you're a real 'ready to shock hard lefty' then you also need to shut your eyes when large portions of the muslim community are caught at the centre of things like child gang rape, even when confronted with hard evidence you completely go into denial and blame the Daily Mail whilst accusing anyone who brings it up of being racist. You're could be on your way to the Morning Star then. Going hardcore is tough these days - all the major remaining battles for equality have now been fought and won over the last 100 years by elders, civil rights activists, suffragettes etc and more recently gay rights so you need to try and find some sexism or racism in something that isn't really there to follow in the footsteps of the ancestors. If you really want to go the whole hog I'd reccommend chasing your local UKIP councillior around town claiming his tweeted about women not being allowed to wear trousers or throw an egg at a local Tory because you heard from a friend of a friend that he once had a black dog called Sooty. Ha ha I of course do not, and I do not support individuals that sympathise with extremists. I just support the millions of muslims that live here and are normal human beings, being treated like they're all evil. I am especially close to a muslim family that are as angry/confused as you are. Saying we'll all get beheaded is ridiculous though. You sound brainwashed yourself. Yeah yeah
MooseBreath Posted 26 February 2015 Posted 26 February 2015 On the credibility of the survey, a sample size of 1,000 gives a 3% confidence level on any realistic population size. 1,000 people therefore is the widely accepted benchmark for statistical credibility. One thing I would question though is the method of data collection. From what I gather this was a telephone survey, which means those carrying out the survey likely knew, or could have found out, the names and addresses of those they were surveying. I don't know about anyone else, but if I held extreme views I'd probably hold back considerably if being questioned under those circumstances. I wonder how much more support for extremism there would have been had there been true anonymity.
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