The Railway Man Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 ****ing hell, I'd just cracked out the champers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudger63 Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Up there with the worst threads i've seen on here. What is the point? We all know the situation we've been in and we all know how easy it is to bend facts. We've not been turned over this season and we've been competitive in each fixture we've played in. Which means we've been beaten by fine margins. These margins are a -Not being good enough. ny combination of;-Poor refereeing. -Luck. -Individual mistakes. Today comes down to the first two. Man City would have won either way because they're a quality side but the referee had a mare and we should have had more from the game but for awful decision making. To say we've got what we've deserved based on that stat is narrow mindedness at it's hilarious worst. You missed out the most common problem, poor management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 You missed out the most common problem, poor management. The 'most common problem' is being inferior to our opposition. Which is generally a result of us coming up against strong established Premier League sides, who have spent more money, have better players who have had more time to adapt to the Premier League in the division and who have managers who have had more time to adpat to the Premier League. That's the route cause of most of our defeats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Listen lads. Lose as many as you want til end of March. We can turn it on its head in April and May Seriously... Is that what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULCFC Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 You missed out the most common problem, poor management. Agree....we can't have had this bad luck/bad refereeing decisions by accident.We are just not good enough at this level.I agree,if we could stay up for at least another season it'd give the owners some (or a lot more money to play with re transfers).But we missed the boat by not making the glaring defiencies of left back,attacking cm and winger or 2....well we got one, but doesn't seem to play when our biggest striker is on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 The 'most common problem' is being inferior to our opposition. Which is generally a result of us coming up against strong established Premier League sides, who have spent more money, have better players who have had more time to adapt to the Premier League in the division and who have managers who have had more time to adpat to the Premier League. That's the route cause of most of our defeats. So you're saying sack Pearson and buy better players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Which of those 22 did we deserve something from? I can only think of Spurs at home and possibly Arsenal away. Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Sunderland, West Brom and Man City off the top of my head. If we get the next best result in those games (losses turned into draws, draws into wins) then we'd be on 28 points with 15th and a point above Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPro Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Up there with the worst threads i've seen on here. What is the point? We all know the situation we've been in and we all know how easy it is to bend facts. We've not been turned over this season and we've been competitive in each fixture we've played in. Which means we've been beaten by fine margins. These margins are any combination of; -Not being good enough. -Poor refereeing. -Luck. -Individual mistakes. Today comes down to the first two. Man City would have won either way because they're a quality side but the referee had a mare and we should have had more from the game but for awful decision making. To say we've got what we've deserved based on that stat is narrow mindedness at it's hilarious worst. What a ridiculous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 So you're saying sack Pearson and buy better players? No I'm saying we're down already and he's more likely to take us up than we are to go up if we let the owners pick another new manager. And then I'm saying see if he learns from his mistakes if he gets us back, to see if the extra time allows him to improve. But yeah, absolutely, buy better players and crucially in the summer if we get the chance again (I'm personally not convinced that all aspects of recruitment were entirely Pearson's fault - though obviously he chose the players he signed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Sunderland, West Brom and Man City off the top of my head. If we get the next best result in those games (losses turned into draws, draws into wins) then we'd be on 28 points with 15th and a point above Hull. But we got something from Liverpool, Everton, Sunderland. Of those you've listed I can only honestly say we deserved to win against Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCSOULBOY Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 BUT IT WAS THE REF's fault .... lol Refs don't like to give penalties away to visiting teams, so you have to force their hand. If you keep piling on the pressure eventually they will give you a penalty. Just look at the bigger and better teams.Why do they get a shout? Because they are attacking all the time. They make the ref give decisions in their favour. When you are not really in the game and only make a few excursions out of your area, he is, most of the time going to calling it for the defender. Either you tripped, nugged him etc. What I am trying to say is. You need to show some initiative first and the tree will bear fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 But we got something from Liverpool, Everton, Sunderland. Of those you've listed I can only honestly say we deserved to win against Spurs. The original question you posed was which did we deserve to get something from. So how many of those we deserved to win is completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Refs don't like to give penalties away to visiting teams, so you have to force their hand. If you keep piling on the pressure eventually they will give you a penalty. Just look at the bigger and better teams.Why do they get a shout? Because they are attacking all the time. They make the ref give decisions in their favour. When you are not really in the game and only make a few excursions out of your area, he is, most of the time going to calling it for the defender. Either you tripped, nugged him etc. What I am trying to say is. You need to show some initiative first and the tree will bear fruit. We are on the same page Soul Boy I was laughing at the fools on another thread that think we will be religated because of refs Not because we just are not good enough on the field or sideline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 No I'm saying we're down already and he's more likely to take us up than we are to go up if we let the owners pick another new manager. And then I'm saying see if he learns from his mistakes if he gets us back, to see if the extra time allows him to improve. But yeah, absolutely, buy better players and crucially in the summer if we get the chance again (I'm personally not convinced that all aspects of recruitment were entirely Pearson's fault - though obviously he chose the players he signed). So you're saying let him take us down, then magically let him take us back up and fingers crossed he'll be better next time? We've gotten worse not better this season, that is generally regarded as the complete opposite of 'learning'. There has been no indication that he has learn't anything, infact we're conceding more and scoring less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 The original question you posed was which did we deserve to get something from. So how many of those we deserved to win is completely irrelevant. Yes and the examples offered by posters were in fact made up of games we'd already got something from so I assume those posters were then arguing we deserved to win some of those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 then magically let him take us back up and fingers crossed he'll be better next time? Do you know what 'if' means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 It's really quite staggering that he's in work now. I just cannot fathom how 10 points from 66 is in anyway acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 Do you know what 'if' means? I do. It doesn't mean that you can add 'if' to any statement and thus render it inarguable. He isn't learning, he hasn't been learning and he appears unwilling to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 But we got something from Liverpool, Everton, Sunderland. Of those you've listed I can only honestly say we deserved to win against Spurs. Do draws not count then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 Do you know what 'if' means? Yes....... I think so, am I using it correctly???...... If Nigel was a better manager we wouldn't be bottom of the league. If we'd have sacked him months ago we'd not be bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 Do draws not count then? They do count, we 'got' something from those games. The loses (of which there are quite a few) would be the games where I would assume folks believed we deserved something in lieue of us actually having got something from the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 I do. It doesn't mean that you can add 'if' to any statement and thus render it inarguable. It does if you can back it up, which is what an argument is all about. If we'd gotten the little bits of luck and refereeing decisions that have gone against us then we'd be in a much better position. Which is why some posters are so annoyed. We've not been as bad as the table suggests. If we'd had those breaks then we'd be out of the bottom 3 and the fans would be happier on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 They do count, we 'got' something from those games. The loses (of which there are quite a few) would be the games where I would assume folks believed we deserved something in lieue of us actually having got something from the others. Jesus, this is like pulling teeth. Just in case you're unaware, you get two points more for a win than you do for a draw. These games where we've drawn but failed to win have been much more costly than the games where we've lost and failed to draw. Which is why i'm listing them in games where we got less than we deserved. How hard is that to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 4 March 2015 Author Share Posted 4 March 2015 It does if you can back it up, which is what an argument is all about. If we'd gotten the little bits of luck and refereeing decisions that have gone against us then we'd be in a much better position. Which is why some posters are so annoyed. We've not been as bad as the table suggests. If we'd had those breaks then we'd be out of the bottom 3 and the fans would be happier on the whole. That isn't an argument. That is a fantasy. If we accept that if we'd enjoyed more luck then we'd have had more points, one would also need to work on the assumption that others sides would too, had they enjoyed more luck, have accumulated more points. We're 7 points shy of safety, of our losses I can only think of Spurs and Arsenal where we 'deserved' points (three and one respectively). That would still leave us three points away from safety before we even allow the other sides to add points from games they felt they deserved something from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 4 March 2015 Share Posted 4 March 2015 That isn't an argument. That is a fantasy. If we accept that if we'd enjoyed more luck then we'd have had more points, one would also need to work on the assumption that others sides would too, had they enjoyed more luck, have accumulated more points. We're 7 points shy of safety, of our losses I can only think of Spurs and Arsenal where we 'deserved' points (three and one respectively). That would still leave us three points away from safety before we even allow the other sides to add points from games they felt they deserved something from. They're not allowed to do that .... we're the only ones that are unlucky. It's our thing not theirs!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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