Stadt Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Go back thru the thread mate. Leadbitter I've always liked..Prem quality? Unsure How many times has Cattermole been sent off this season? You're right and massively wrong. We need a proper defensive midfielder but not one like Cattermole, defensive midfielders need to be disciplined and positionally astute and Cattermole is neither, his lunges and reckless challenges leave the back four exposed because he leaves a hole whereas better defensive midfielders will screen the back four making interceptions rather than tackles - I think we need more physicality in a defensive midfielder too, Cattermole is what, 5'10? We need a Jedinak type character who'll win the ball in the air and on the floor. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/nemanja_matic/126/126/9284/0/p#clearances/yellow_cards/blocks/interceptions/aerial_duels_won_%#avg (Matic is there for context)
Trev Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 LB- Erkin- has had a great season at fenerbache Luke Garbutt- Eveton fans seem to love him but Martinez doesn't play him and his contract is up
conLAD logan Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Have to agree, Jedinak and Diame would be very good options alongside Cambiasso (should he sign). It all depends on if we sign Cambiasso though (Please, pretty please, Football Gods!!) I think if we sign Camby and Huth then we need the following, in order of priority: LWB/LB = Brady CB = Chester/C. Davies DM = Jedinak/Diame Winger = ??? AMC=??? Other than that, Van Aanholt seems to have played well for Sunderland this season, but I can't suggest him. His throw-in for us away against Reading a few years ago still gives me nightmares... definitely agree with those players being potential signings as they seem to be hull's stronger players and obviously pearson was once there himself, jedinak would be realistic aswell and would add much needed height in midfield, he would definitely be perfect next to cambiasso, but if we don't get him Id be happy with danny drinkwater who will hopefully step up to be the same player he was in the championship last year.
matty98 Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Would love to see Curtis Davies back, realistic aswell imo
DeclanMC Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 How about Danny from Zenith? Leaving on a free transfer, one of the best playmakers currently around. Under the radar because he's spent most of his career in Russia.
Nick Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 You're right and massively wrong. We need a proper defensive midfielder but not one like Cattermole, defensive midfielders need to be disciplined and positionally astute and Cattermole is neither, his lunges and reckless challenges leave the back four exposed because he leaves a hole whereas better defensive midfielders will screen the back four making interceptions rather than tackles - I think we need more physicality in a defensive midfielder too, Cattermole is what, 5'10? We need a Jedinak type character who'll win the ball in the air and on the floor. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/nemanja_matic/126/126/9284/0/p#interceptions/clearances/yellow_cards/tackles_won/aerial_duels_won_%/fouls_committed#total (Matic is there for context) Blasphemy.
matty98 Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 You're right and massively wrong. We need a proper defensive midfielder but not one like Cattermole, defensive midfielders need to be disciplined and positionally astute and Cattermole is neither, his lunges and reckless challenges leave the back four exposed because he leaves a hole whereas better defensive midfielders will screen the back four making interceptions rather than tackles - I think we need more physicality in a defensive midfielder too, Cattermole is what, 5'10? We need a Jedinak type character who'll win the ball in the air and on the floor. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/nemanja_matic/126/126/9284/0/p#clearances/yellow_cards/blocks/interceptions/aerial_duels_won_%#avg (Matic is there for context) Jedinak is great at those things, but add pass completion into the equation, 67% just isn't good enough for a CM, the reason he has so many more interceptions is because Crystal Palace have very low possesion stats so there is more opportunities to intercept. Cattermole is the better player.
Stadt Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Jedinak is great at those things, but add pass completion into the equation, 67% just isn't good enough for a CM, the reason he has so many more interceptions is because Crystal Palace have very low possesion stats so there is more opportunities to intercept. Cattermole is the better player. Jedinak isn't in the side to create though, he's there to win the ball and protect the defence, Puncheon, Bolasie and Zaha create and the main reason they do so is because Mcarthur and Jedinak are behind them, http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p#total_forward_passes/total_backward_passes/pass_completion#avg
hornyhollthefox123 Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Jedinak would be a cracking shout. Utter monster. Imagine attacking a corner with Ulloa, jedinak, Huth & Wes!
Guest Col city fan Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 You're right and massively wrong. We need a proper defensive midfielder but not one like Cattermole, defensive midfielders need to be disciplined and positionally astute and Cattermole is neither, his lunges and reckless challenges leave the back four exposed because he leaves a hole whereas better defensive midfielders will screen the back four making interceptions rather than tackles - I think we need more physicality in a defensive midfielder too, Cattermole is what, 5'10? We need a Jedinak type character who'll win the ball in the air and on the floor. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/nemanja_matic/126/126/9284/0/p#clearances/yellow_cards/blocks/interceptions/aerial_duels_won_%#avg (Matic is there for context) Now add Cambiasso to those stats. Include tackles lost, tackles won, aerial duals won, clearances, total duels, interceptions and successful take ons. Also look at the passing stats.In fact, stats wise, just about the only dimension Cambiasso compares favourably to Jedinak in, is in passing. Indicating that defensively, he was not played correctly until the latter end of the season. I had been saying this had been an issue all season for us. Statistically, it's pretty much demonstrated. Is this a point you are making? Or are they simply stats so unimportant? Damn lies? You are right though. If those stats are to be believed or are seen as meaningful, Jedinak comes out as a very able DM AND I must admit, better than Cattermole in that respect. Finally, they show the exceptional contribution Matic has made to Chelsea's success. Interesting. Edit....add Matt James into the equation, defensively. Even more interesting.
matty98 Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Jedinak isn't in the side to create though, he's there to win the ball and protect the defence, Puncheon, Bolasie and Zaha create and the main reason they do so is because Mcarthur and Jedinak are behind them, http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/lee_cattermole/126/126/786/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/mile_jedinak/126/126/5175/0/p#total_forward_passes/total_backward_passes/pass_completion#avg Fair enough, but when you're giving the ball away 1 in every 3 passes it isn't good enough, it just invites more pressure from the opposition.
Foxymcoxy Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Now add Cambiasso to those stats. Include tackles lost, tackles won, aerial duals won, clearances, total duels, interceptions and successful take ons. Also look at the passing stats. In fact, stats wise, just about the only dimension Cambiasso compares favourably to Jedinak in, is in passing. Indicating that defensively, he was not played correctly until the latter end of the season. I had been saying this had been an issue all season for us. Statistically, it's pretty much demonstrated. Is this a point you are making? Or are they simply stats so unimportant? Damn lies? You are right though. If those stats are to be believed or are seen as meaningful, Jedinak comes out as a very able DM AND I must admit, better than Cattermole in that respect. Finally, they show the exceptional contribution Matic has made to Chelsea's success. Interesting. If you change it to per 90 minutes Cambiasso comes out OK, but yes stats don't do him justice by any means. Also the fact that he shits all over the others in terms of chances created and key passes should tell you something about the way he has been deployed compared to them. But I know you are always on the lookout for a chance to bring the great man into the discussion.
Guest Col city fan Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 If you change it to per 90 minutes Cambiasso comes out OK, but yes stats don't do him justice by any means. Also the fact that he shits all over the others in terms of chances created and key passes should tell you something about the way he has been deployed compared to them. But I know you are always on the lookout for a chance to bring the great man into the discussion.No I'm not. I'm looking to emphasise the point that I have made throughout the season. Cambiasso deployed in a 4-4-2 was not strong defensively and contributed to us conceding goals.This changed when the formation changed AND when we tightened up at the back. I've never ever suggested Cambiasso is not a good player. Not once. What I have said is that he was doing us no favours, in terms of conceding goals, in the 4-4-2. Neither was James (is that clear?). Blame it on 'Cambiasso bashing' if you wish. That's easier. Our season turned round when Pearson got his tactics right and when we got Robert Huth fit. It was not down to Cambiasso. Cambiasso himself benefited from the changes that Pearson made. Just in time. The defensive aspect to our midfield was why I'd suggested Cattermole at the start of the season. Not once did I say Cattermole is a better player than Cambiasso. Not once. He isn't. But I said I'd like him to tighten up the midfield area. I should have suggested Jedinak by the looks of it.
Stadt Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Now add Cambiasso to those stats. Include tackles lost, tackles won, aerial duals won, clearances, total duels, interceptions and successful take ons. Also look at the passing stats. In fact, stats wise, just about the only dimension Cambiasso compares favourably to Jedinak in, is in passing. Indicating that defensively, he was not played correctly until the latter end of the season. I had been saying this had been an issue all season for us. Statistically, it's pretty much demonstrated. Is this a point you are making? Or are they simply stats so unimportant? Damn lies? You are right though. If those stats are to be believed or are seen as meaningful, Jedinak comes out as a very able DM AND I must admit, better than Cattermole in that respect. Finally, they show the exceptional contribution Matic has made to Chelsea's success. Interesting. Edit....add Matt James into the equation, defensively. Even more interesting. We've not played with a specialist DM though this year, so Cambiasso's defensive stats don't compare, we've got the best out of cambiasso having options ahead of him allowing to play forward passes whilst a more mobile midfielder has done some of his donkey work. Cambiasso has played box to box and has done so more effectively in the 343/352/3412 because of the extra cover. Cambiasso v QPR (3412) http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755679/player-stats/13919/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor Cambiasso v Palace (442) http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755536/player-stats/13919/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor We've certainly freed him up and it's gotten better performances out of him. I think where you were half right about Cambiasso was that in a 442 he has to do too much whereas 5 years ago he could have done but instead you seemed to blame Cambiasso rather than Pearson for 'blunting' him,
Guest Col city fan Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 We've not played with a specialist DM though this year, so Cambiasso's defensive stats don't compare, we've got the best out of cambiasso having options ahead of him allowing to play forward passes whilst a more mobile midfielder has done some of his donkey work. Cambiasso has played box to box and has done so more effectively in the 343/352/3412 because of the extra cover. Cambiasso v QPR (3412) http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755679/player-stats/13919/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor Cambiasso v Palace (442) http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755536/player-stats/13919/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor We've certainly freed him up and it's gotten better performances out of him. I think where you were half right about Cambiasso was that in a 442 he has to do too much whereas 5 years ago he could have done but instead you seemed to blame Cambiasso rather than Pearson for 'blunting' him, No I've consistently stated Cambiasso is not played to his best in a 4-4-2.Whether that's because Cambiasso himself cannot do the work that such a formation necessitates or because Pearson deployed him wrong (or both) is down to individual interpretation. Regardless, the outcome was the same. I've called for an out and out DM (or a formation that supports the midfield) all season. These stats are why. I don't think there's any 'half right' about it. The season changed when the formation changed and we tightened up the defence. Cambiasso benefitted. Until then, he suffered like they all did.
Bluearmyfox28 Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Have to agree, Jedinak and Diame would be very good options alongside Cambiasso (should he sign). It all depends on if we sign Cambiasso though (Please, pretty please, Football Gods!!) I think if we sign Camby and Huth then we need the following, in order of priority: LWB/LB = Brady CB = Chester/C. Davies DM = Jedinak/Diame Winger = ??? AMC=??? Other than that, Van Aanholt seems to have played well for Sunderland this season, but I can't suggest him. His throw-in for us away against Reading a few years ago still gives me nightmares... Matt Phillips as winger & replace the ACM for a striker in Charlie Austin I would be soooo happy!!
Foxymcoxy Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 No I'm not. I'm looking to emphasise the point that I have made throughout the season. Cambiasso deployed in a 4-4-2 was not strong defensively and contributed to us conceding goals. This changed when the formation changed AND when we tightened up at the back. I've never ever suggested Cambiasso is not a good player. Not once. What I have said is that he was doing us no favours, in terms of conceding goals, in the 4-4-2. Neither was James (is that clear?). Blame it on 'Cambiasso bashing' if you wish. That's easier. Our season turned round when Pearson got his tactics right and when we got Robert Huth fit. It was not down to Cambiasso. Cambiasso himself benefited from the changes that Pearson made. Just in time. The defensive aspect to our midfield was why I'd suggested Cattermole at the start of the season. Not once did I say Cattermole is a better player than Cambiasso. Not once. He isn't. But I said I'd like him to tighten up the midfield area. I should have suggested Jedinak by the looks of it. Don't agree at all, he is strong defensively he just has a different style. Being in the right place at the right time and forcing play to be moved to another area won't show up on stats but it is just as effective as the alternative style of crunching tackles and putting your body on the line. He has obviously been caught out a few times by being physically unable to track runs, i.e Di Marias goal but you expect that when you sign a 34 year old. With what we've got from him in other areas this is well worth it, we would be a worse side with a specialist DM in his place or even deploying him in such a role (what he was famous for really). I do agree that the balance wasn't right in our system early in the season but to rest it all on Cambiasso being weak defensively is a very odd observation. Certainly in the 3-4-3 we are playing now we won't often be wanting a purely defensive midfielder as that is overkill with the 3 CB's. I think we have players capable of filling that role when needed but I wouldn't object if we did bring someone in. What I do think would help us progress is a big strong box to box CM who can contribute to the offence as well as competing physically in the middle.
Guest Col city fan Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Don't agree at all, he is strong defensively he just has a different style. Being in the right place at the right time and forcing play to be moved to another area won't show up on stats but it is just as effective as the alternative style of crunching tackles and putting your body on the line. He has obviously been caught out a few times by being physically unable to track runs, i.e Di Marias goal but you expect that when you sign a 34 year old. With what we've got from him in other areas this is well worth it, we would be a worse side with a specialist DM in his place or even deploying him in such a role (what he was famous for really). I do agree that the balance wasn't right in our system early in the season but to rest it all on Cambiasso being weak defensively is a very odd observation. Certainly in the 3-4-3 we are playing now we won't often be wanting a purely defensive midfielder as that is overkill with the 3 CB's. I think we have players capable of filling that role when needed but I wouldn't object if we did bring someone in. What I do think would help us progress is a big strong box to box CM who can contribute to the offence as well as competing physically in the middle. This is my point. Made just there. WHO is laying everything at the door of Cambiasso? Certainly not me. But defensively, his contribution for months was not good enough. The same can be said for many players. Do you get that? MANY PLAYERS. The formation changed the way we defended, gave rise to our attack minded players having more time (Esteban included) and off we went. To get back to the thread.... I suggest we need a stronger, tougher tackling midfielder to win more battles in the middle when we were losing control in that area. Like I said last season. Cattermole was a name that came to mind. There are others.
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Bar five or six teams, the French top division is barely Championship level. mmmmmmm condescending
lestalee Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 This is my point. Made just there. WHO is laying everything at the door of Cambiasso? Certainly not me. But defensively, his contribution for months was not good enough. The same can be said for many players. Do you get that? MANY PLAYERS. The formation changed the way we defended, gave rise to our attack minded players having more time (Esteban included) and off we went. To get back to the thread.... I suggest we need a stronger, tougher tackling midfielder to win more battles in the middle when we were losing control in that area. Like I said last season. Cattermole was a name that came to mind. There are others. This is my point. Made just there. WHO is laying everything at the door of Cambiasso? Certainly not me. But defensively, his contribution for months was not good enough. The same can be said for many players. Do you get that? MANY PLAYERS. The formation changed the way we defended, gave rise to our attack minded players having more time (Esteban included) and off we went. To get back to the thread.... I suggest we need a stronger, tougher tackling midfielder to win more battles in the middle when we were losing control in that area. Like I said last season. Cattermole was a name that came to mind. There are others.
lestalee Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 This is my point. Made just there. WHO is laying everything at the door of Cambiasso? Certainly not me. But defensively, his contribution for months was not good enough. The same can be said for many players. Do you get that? MANY PLAYERS. The formation changed the way we defended, gave rise to our attack minded players having more time (Esteban included) and off we went. To get back to the thread.... I suggest we need a stronger, tougher tackling midfielder to win more battles in the middle when we were losing control in that area. Like I said last season. Cattermole was a name that came to mind. There are others.
lestalee Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 Nigel de jong would win his fair share in the middle!!!...
GingerrrFox Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 I can't believe you are still going on about Cambiasso Col. People will forget how wrong you were if you stop going on about it.
4everfox Posted 27 May 2015 Posted 27 May 2015 mmmmmmm condescending How is stating a fact condescending? There is literally a handful of teams in that league who are of Premier League standard, the rest would get destroyed in the Premier League. The point I made was extremely valid in response to the post it was directed at I feel. Scoring 20 goals a season in that league is much easier then scoring the same amount in the Premier League.
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