The People's Hero Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 Let's leave the lighthearted (generally light/empty headed) thread about fantasy pricing to it - and perhaps you can enlighten us here. Buses down here cost a fortune and people are always moaning about it. I assume it's not just profiteering. What's the reason for the high costs? It can be cheaper to get a taxi sometimes ? Insurances ? Drivers wages? Often empty services ? Too many necessary exemptions ie the need to run school services but lots of free passes given out to students and to an extend to the elderly ? I hope you take this seriously since I would actually like to know? Would bus companies like to just drop some Routes but the communities would be in uproar ? Is that an issue ?
Rincewind Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 Some people rely on public transport to get around.
The People's Hero Posted 21 June 2015 Author Posted 21 June 2015 Yes but I got my wrists slapped for trying to have a non-trivial discussion in a trivial thread.
Frank to be Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 Honestly I never thought I'd see someone get so emotionally involved over the price of car insurance but I think the passion on show is fantastic.
Jimothy Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 It's numerous factors. People firstly have to remember that those buses are out on the road all day, whether people use them or not, using diesel and being driven by a driver getting a wage, so they're not just called upon when needed like a taxi. I think people just see the bus as the one that arrives when they jump on it, not something that's on the road for 12+ hours a day. Anyway, after the mini rant to start with, you have like I say wages and fuel. We are admittedly one of the lowest paying companies in the area, but our drivers are well above minimum wages, so two or three buses on a service driving around for 10 to 12 hours a days isn't cheap. Then you've got the fact that those buses use upward of 100 litres of diesel per day. Our diesel is slightly lower than what me or you would pay at the pump, but still around the £1 a litre mark, so doesn't take a genius to work out that running those buses 6 days a week isn't cheap either. Obviously with these vehicles running constantly for so many hours a days, the running repairs cost can run up pretty high with brakes, tyres (a tyre for a bigger coach can cost nigh on £300) etc, and that's before I get onto the cost of the wages of the guys who repair them. With them being on the road so much are insurance is pretty high too, and that's not helped by the odd accident too (but these things happen). I haven't yet factored in the cost of the wages of the guys back in the office running the shop, dealing with breakdowns, putting together rotas, dealing with sickdays, or my wages. Added to all that the lack of guaranteed income, when people ask for a 10 mile journey to cost £1, you imagine the amount of people you'd have to carry per bus to even break even. Loughborough to Leicester for a £1? You'd need probably 8-10 people to pay for the fuel. It's gonna take a good 35 to 45 minutes with all the stops, so that's another 7-9 people to pay the drivers wage per journey, then you'd probably need all that again to cover the rest of the costs. And you didn't get your wrist slapped, I just don't see the need to turn everything into a serious discussion on here and I don't understand your need to address people in your posts like you've they're something you've just scraped off the bottom of your shoe. I've managed to answer your query without treating you like a piece of shit, why can't you do the same? It's not like it upsets people, it's only the Internet, but this place is much more pleasurable when people aren't needlessly being ***** to others.
bovril Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 This is like the foxestalk equivalent of that rap battle scene in 8 Mile.
Guest Sharpe's Fox Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 They should bring back On the Buses starring TPH as disgruntled cheapskate Toby Geldburg, whose only companion is a similarly prickly Jack Russell Terrier called Jedidiah.
Guest Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 And you didn't get your wrist slapped, I just don't see the need to turn everything into a serious discussion on here and I don't understand your need to address people in your posts like you've they're something you've just scraped off the bottom of your shoe. I've managed to answer your query without treating you like a piece of shit, why can't you do the same? It's not like it upsets people, it's only the Internet, but this place is much more pleasurable when people aren't needlessly being ***** to others. A reasonable and reasoned response Facecloth but you're probably wasting your time the OP is known for his search of such things.
Rincewind Posted 21 June 2015 Posted 21 June 2015 I dont know why TPH is defending insurance companies so much. They'll not be so accomondating when he needs to put a claim in and it is refused because of some clause in the mini- nini-micro-small print.
The People's Hero Posted 21 June 2015 Author Posted 21 June 2015 I dont know why TPH is defending insurance companies so much. They'll not be so accomondating when he needs to put a claim in and it is refused because of some clause in the mini- nini-micro-small print. If the full terms of your cover were not provided to you or easily available at time of quote then you need to contact the authorities. Contract certainty is a pretty big deal. I've not had experience of a claim being repudiated so can't talk from first hand experience. If you have, let me know the full details and if there was anything amiss I may be able to point you in the right direction.
The People's Hero Posted 21 June 2015 Author Posted 21 June 2015 A reasonable and reasoned response Facecloth but you're probably wasting your time the OP is known for his search of such things. Wondered when you'd finally show up. Your village is looking for you.
Captain... Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 It's numerous factors. People firstly have to remember that those buses are out on the road all day, whether people use them or not, using diesel and being driven by a driver getting a wage, so they're not just called upon when needed like a taxi. I think people just see the bus as the one that arrives when they jump on it, not something that's on the road for 12+ hours a day. Anyway, after the mini rant to start with, you have like I say wages and fuel. We are admittedly one of the lowest paying companies in the area, but our drivers are well above minimum wages, so two or three buses on a service driving around for 10 to 12 hours a days isn't cheap. Then you've got the fact that those buses use upward of 100 litres of diesel per day. Our diesel is slightly lower than what me or you would pay at the pump, but still around the £1 a litre mark, so doesn't take a genius to work out that running those buses 6 days a week isn't cheap either. Obviously with these vehicles running constantly for so many hours a days, the running repairs cost can run up pretty high with brakes, tyres (a tyre for a bigger coach can cost nigh on £300) etc, and that's before I get onto the cost of the wages of the guys who repair them. With them being on the road so much are insurance is pretty high too, and that's not helped by the odd accident too (but these things happen). I haven't yet factored in the cost of the wages of the guys back in the office running the shop, dealing with breakdowns, putting together rotas, dealing with sickdays, or my wages. Added to all that the lack of guaranteed income, when people ask for a 10 mile journey to cost £1, you imagine the amount of people you'd have to carry per bus to even break even. Loughborough to Leicester for a £1? You'd need probably 8-10 people to pay for the fuel. It's gonna take a good 35 to 45 minutes with all the stops, so that's another 7-9 people to pay the drivers wage per journey, then you'd probably need all that again to cover the rest of the costs. And you didn't get your wrist slapped, I just don't see the need to turn everything into a serious discussion on here and I don't understand your need to address people in your posts like you've they're something you've just scraped off the bottom of your shoe. I've managed to answer your query without treating you like a piece of shit, why can't you do the same? It's not like it upsets people, it's only the Internet, but this place is much more pleasurable when people aren't needlessly being ***** to others. Whilst I do appreciate and understand the costs of running a bus route is more than people might think, and increased diesel prices must have hit it pretty hard, but you fail to mention in your summary above about other revenue streams for busses and public transport. The adverts on busses must rake in a fair amount, on the outside and on the inside. Bus companies also get subsidies to keep unprofitable routes going. Do bus companies get any money for senior bus passes and such like? I assume they are issued by the Govt, but do they charge it back on a usage, or do they get a flat fee for each one issued? You also have to accept that people are put off taking the bus by the cost, I'm surprised they haven't introduced peak rates for busses, surely that would get a lot more people on the bus during the quiet times and reduce overall costs. Restrict bus passes to off peak only.
Rincewind Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 There are times of the day when a bus pass cannot be used. Not sure of the times as I have never been refused. The difference between the number and frequency of some buses is ridiculous. There are I think two companies running a 54 to Beaumont Leys shopping Centre at about every ten minutes. Buses to Oadby are about every 10-20 minutes and are often empty. yet some routes are half hourly to every hour and are packed.I live close enough to town so as not to use my pass though. It is handy for local trains where it is half price. I don't think I would pay over £10 to Nottingham if I could not use it. EMT must be compensated for the difference. I am sure there are many users of passes would not use the services if it was not for the consessionary rates.
separator Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 Having different bus companies across Leicester using there own tickets and prices doesn't help either, surely having a daily or season ticket valid across all the different firms would improve bus usage. If I wanted to travel from Anstey to Wigston return by bus then I'd have to buy a day ticket from First to get from Anstey to the centre then another ticket with Arriva to get to Wigston, probably costing the best part of a tenner.
Buce Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 Having different bus companies across Leicester using there own tickets and prices doesn't help either, surely having a daily or season ticket valid across all the different firms would improve bus usage. If I wanted to travel from Anstey to Wigston return by bus then I'd have to buy a day ticket from First to get from Anstey to the centre then another ticket with Arriva to get to Wigston, probably costing the best part of a tenner. Fyi, you can buy a 'flexiticket', which enables unlimited travel on Arriva and First buses, for £5 per day.
MPH Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 Having different bus companies across Leicester using there own tickets and prices doesn't help either, surely having a daily or season ticket valid across all the different firms would improve bus usage. If I wanted to travel from Anstey to Wigston return by bus then I'd have to buy a day ticket from First to get from Anstey to the centre then another ticket with Arriva to get to Wigston, probably costing the best part of a tenner. I would like to think that having more than one company in the city would help to keep prices down... Silly, i know!
Smudge Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 I would like to think that having more than one company in the city would help to keep prices down... Silly, i know! Conversely, economy of scale prevails when you have one overhead and fewer buses (which would help congestion I'd assume) and costs would reduce. The buses would carry more passengers and the revenue stream would improve. Higher revenue less lower costs = higher profit. Higher profit enables any amount of opportunity including lowering of prices. Competition is a good thing but in a small market like a city or county it seems counterproductive since there are alternatives to taking the bus.
davieG Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 I would like to think that having more than one company in the city would help to keep prices down... Silly, i know! If we're to have this competition between companies the competition should be bidding for specific routes so that we don't get 2 companies on the same route. What should happen is the Councils and interested bus companies should meet to agree what routes are needed and how often they should run. Then the bus companies should bid for certain routes stating what they will charge passengers. The Councils would then give them a contract for a fixed period. At least something like that
MPH Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 If we're to have this competition between companies the competition should be bidding for specific routes so that we don't get 2 companies on the same route. What should happen is the Councils and interested bus companies should meet to agree what routes are needed and how often they should run. Then the bus companies should bid for certain routes stating what they will charge passengers. The Councils would then give them a contract for a fixed period. At least something like that Why would it be a bad thing having 2 companies running the same route?
davieG Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 Why would it be a bad thing having 2 companies running the same route? Because they behave like kids. You get no buses and then two turn up together with them 'fighting' to get to the bus stop first. It seems to have little or no effect on the fares with them competing to the highest rather than the lowest level Surely it would serve them better if there were agreed routes and timetables that were created for the benefit of the passengers. It serves the passengers nothing when you get two competing buses arriving at the stop at the same time.
separator Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 Fyi, you can buy a 'flexiticket', which enables unlimited travel on Arriva and First buses, for £5 per day. You learn something new everyday, cheers. I only use First anyway, just used the Anstey to Wigston as an example. I only use the First buses every now and then but I've never seen that flexiticket advertised on board, just their FirstDay ticket @ £4.40
Northants Fox 3 Posted 22 June 2015 Posted 22 June 2015 First no longer operate here in Northampton stooped 2 years ago if my memory is correct, main company now is Stagecoach with some smaller company's like Uno (strange name I know ) running to places they don't go, we also have Meriden who run up to where I live same as Stagecoach, so there is a bit of rivalry there as they both operate every 15 minutes and will often arrive at the same time one company taking a different route to the other after they leave here so they don't use exactly the same route, very few use day tickets preferring the weekly's at £12.80, singles vary as my buses are cheaper than the others, most charge £2.30 to Town.
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