Migrants - What's the answer?

[Rincewind]

You are when you are outnumbered and can't run away.

[Thracian]

What is there not to understand?

 

Education is brainwashing.

 

We as teachers are taught to brainwash students to believe what we tell them.

 

you've clearly been brainwashed that non-western education brainwashes.

 

 

Brainwashing is the repeated labouring of a belief/ideology/whatever in various ways.

 

I don't remember any of that in my modest education nor have I noticed it in the education of my kids and grandkids.

 

I abhor the concept of any kind of brainwashing. It is no less than rape of the mind and just as evil.

 

I've done my share of teaching and have never stopped encouraging people to examine, explore, question and develop  skills, ideas, training routines and so on. 

[Grewks]

Brainwashing is the repeated labouring of a belief/ideology/whatever in various ways.

 

I don't remember any of that in my modest education nor have I noticed it in the education of my kids and grandkids.

 

I abhor the concept of any kind of brainwashing. It is no less than rape of the mind and just as evil.

 

I've done my share of teaching and have never stopped encouraging people to examine, explore, question and develop  skills, ideas, training routines and so on. 

 

 

We are all brainwashed in one way or another my friend.

[davieG]

I think we have an innate ability to filter a lot of the brain washing / indoctrination if we find it illogical or against our own natural persona which of course is variable.

 

I was raised in a very strict overly powerfull C of E environment but I have no belief in that, sure some of my life style and behavioural beliefs maybe contributed to that upbringing but a belief in Jesus etc nope.

[Merging Cultures]

The number of people assaulted in Cologne is now up to 500.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35277249

[Rincewind]

Send the refugees back then the figures will fall to zero. Sorted.

[Guest MattP]

So a week after Ken saying he won't resort to silly hyperbole anymore and will try and keep an open mind we get the above.

How many sex assaults do you find acceptable? Is there a limit as to when you'll probably think that importing masses of people to Europe who hold views we have spent hundreds of years fighting against might not be such a great idea?

[Merging Cultures]

Send the refugees back then the figures will fall to zero. Sorted.

 

Unfortunately the assaults have already happened. So they wont fall to zero. It is too late.

 

However, governments can protect their citizens better by limiting the number of 'asylum seekers' they let in and monitor them better until they are processed as refugees, and quickly send home those who are not refugees.

[Darkon84]

So, following the events in Germany and across Europe on NYE, it's now coming out that groups of 'asylum seekers', predominantly Afghans, carrying temporary ID cards, worked in groups to sexually harass and molest girls as young as 11 at a Swedish music festival last summer. Once again, the police are being accused of a cover up.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/11/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-sexual-assaults.html?_r=0

[Guest]

Brainwashing is the repeated labouring of a belief/ideology/whatever in various ways.

 

I don't remember any of that in my modest education nor have I noticed it in the education of my kids and grandkids.

 

I abhor the concept of any kind of brainwashing. It is no less than rape of the mind and just as evil.

 

I've done my share of teaching and have never stopped encouraging people to examine, explore, question and develop  skills, ideas, training routines and so on. 

 

The more you tell me about yourself the more a saint I believe you are.

 

I'll be contacting the Pope soon (no, he's not another ex-student).

[Claridge]

Send the refugees back then the figures will fall to zero. Sorted.

Don't let any more young males in and it will fall.should be fighting to defend their country from attack by Isis etc...anyway.

[Dr The Singh]

I remember a story my uncles used to tell me about when they first arrived in the UK. Obviously from where they came from was very culturally different. Women dressed modestly, never drank and were never alone in bars, and never dated men, but notntonsay women were subservient, there was no bar and drink culture like the UK, and women who you don't no, were treated like mothers and sisters and were greeted as such.

However my uncles arrived here, they were aged around 19 yrs, and they described it like a massive eye opening, and a red blooded man's dream, in there eyes it was like a kid in a candy shop. They had opportunities to meet women and shag them, which would be impossible where they were from. So you can imagine a culture where women are subservient, low education, and treat women like meat, seeing what they see in open public would be similar to what they would see in hareems.

Integration has always been a problem with immigrants of differing cultures, and where mass influxes happen it was always going to fail. Europes integration is a failure as a whole with immigrants for example my Sikh relatives live a parallel life to the natives, they only interact with there own as a whole. Britian, is now on a slippery slope, a ideology of the majority immigrant community is destroying all the good work our forefathers have done to make Britian a better multicultural state. I worry for my kids.....

[Grewks]

To be blunt.....

 

The Government in this country are elected by its people. They are responsible for the safety and well-being of these people. The very instance a crime has been commited by one of these migrants in our 'homeland', deportation should be immediate. Followed by a cease to allowing any further migrants into our country.

 

As for the 'families' and the 'women and children', i'm sorry but we already have thousands of individuals up and down the country lacking education, not working/unable to work, offering less to society than they take. These 'families' will simply continue this trend.

 

None of these women with children will be able to work. Even if they do, they will be on low skilled low waged jobs. How will they afford housing and child care? Answer - us.

 

The 'moral obligation' argument goes out of the window the very second our nations morals, beliefs, culture etc....comes under attack, it has already done so.

 

 

The fact that I am only a 21 year old student will lead many members of the older population to question my lack of life experience, etc...

 

But no-one has seen what tomorrow will bring, we have never witnessed the type of world we live in today before and to be quite honest it is my future which is at threat to a greater extent than older generations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The answer to this 'migrant crisis' is very simple. If we can help should we? Of course. But how logical is it to suggest that the life of a foreign migrant with a culture totally different to ours, is worth more than any one individual who already calls this nation home?

 

You wouldn't risk the safety and future of a member of your family to save the life of another person....

[leicsmac]

To be blunt.....

 

The Government in this country are elected by its people. They are responsible for the safety and well-being of these people. The very instance a crime has been commited by one of these migrants in our 'homeland', deportation should be immediate. Followed by a cease to allowing any further migrants into our country.

 

As for the 'families' and the 'women and children', i'm sorry but we already have thousands of individuals up and down the country lacking education, not working/unable to work, offering less to society than they take. These 'families' will simply continue this trend.

 

None of these women with children will be able to work. Even if they do, they will be on low skilled low waged jobs. How will they afford housing and child care? Answer - us.

 

The 'moral obligation' argument goes out of the window the very second our nations morals, beliefs, culture etc....comes under attack, it has already done so.

 

 

The fact that I am only a 21 year old student will lead many members of the older population to question my lack of life experience, etc...

 

But no-one has seen what tomorrow will bring, we have never witnessed the type of world we live in today before and to be quite honest it is my future which is at threat to a greater extent than older generations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The answer to this 'migrant crisis' is very simple. If we can help should we? Of course. But how logical is it to suggest that the life of a foreign migrant with a culture totally different to ours, is worth more than any one individual who already calls this nation home?

 

You wouldn't risk the safety and future of a member of your family to save the life of another person....

 

As much as I agree with safeguarding our future, the world is far safer now than at practically any point in history from the entire perspective of humanity.

 

Regarding your last sentence, it seems to be hardwired into our beings to protect and empathise with those close to us the most, but I like to think that the suffering of strangers can also move us. At the end of the day, we're all human, after all.

[Grewks]

As much as I agree with safeguarding our future, the world is far safer now than at practically any point in history from the entire perspective of humanity.

 

Regarding your last sentence, it seems to be hardwired into our beings to protect and empathise with those close to us the most, but I like to think that the suffering of strangers can also move us. At the end of the day, we're all human, after all.

 

 

1) I will make a more valid argument at a later date, but the simple fact that we 'no longer know who our enemies are' suggests we are no safer at all.

 

2) There is no doubt that the suffering of strangers can move us. But those who want to help are actually more selfish to a greater extent than those who do not. They are willing to risk the lives of others in an attempt to satisfy their own moral beliefs.

[leicsmac]

1) I will make a more valid argument at a later date, but the simple fact that we 'no longer know who our enemies are' suggests we are no safer at all.

 

2) There is no doubt that the suffering of strangers can move us. But those who want to help are actually more selfish to a greater extent than those who do not. They are willing to risk the lives of others in an attempt to satisfy their own moral beliefs.

 

1.) I'll take a possibly unknown enemy with aged assault rifles and IED's that have the potential to cause a few hundred deaths in a busy city over a definitely known enemy holding nuclear weaponry with the power to bring civilisation as we know it to a close any day from a pure safety perspective. And while 'we' (UK?) have probably been safer in the past, that was solely because we were the biggest dog in the pound; everyone else was (likely) much less safe than they are today. Which is why I used the term 'the world' in my post as opposed to just our small corner of it.

Global life expectancies are going up (in most places), tech is advancing at a pretty fast clip - progress is being made.

 

2.) Are you arguing that altruism is a bad quality, then? I've seen people risk and give away their lives and material wealth to help those who they have absolutely no obligation to help...is that without meaning or selfish? Do you think they do it because it fulfils a need of their own, then?

Or are you referring to the leaders who would (ostensibly) put citizens of Western nations at risk in the name of 'helping' those in other places? If you are, then I have little argument with that.

[Grewks]

1.) I'll take a possibly unknown enemy with aged assault rifles and IED's that have the potential to cause a few hundred deaths in a busy city over a definitely known enemy holding nuclear weaponry with the power to bring civilisation as we know it to a close any day from a pure safety perspective. And while 'we' (UK?) have probably been safer in the past, that was solely because we were the biggest dog in the pound; everyone else was (likely) much less safe than they are today. Which is why I used the term 'the world' in my post as opposed to just our small corner of it.

Global life expectancies are going up (in most places), tech is advancing at a pretty fast clip - progress is being made.

 

2.) Are you arguing that altruism is a bad quality, then? I've seen people risk and give away their lives and material wealth to help those who they have absolutely no obligation to help...is that without meaning or selfish? Do you think they do it because it fulfils a need of their own, then?

Or are you referring to the leaders who would (ostensibly) put citizens of Western nations at risk in the name of 'helping' those in other places? If you are, then I have little argument with that.

 

 

The point with this is simple.

 

 

You see many individuals claiming 'we should help'....but how many are willing to risk their own families lives in doing so? Instead taking the 'as long as it doesn't effect me' approach?

 

Western leaders - undoubtedly.

 

But also western citizens who are putting these migrant life's ahead of fellow western citizens.

[leicsmac]

The point with this is simple.

 

 

You see many individuals claiming 'we should help'....but how many are willing to risk their own families lives in doing so? Instead taking the 'as long as it doesn't effect me' approach?

 

Western leaders - undoubtedly.

 

But also western citizens who are putting these migrant life's ahead of fellow western citizens.

 

Ah, so your problem is with people being hollow and hypocritical then, relying on words instead of deeds. Fair enough, that's a pretty common issue. But I don't get how that devalues people who actually do go out there and help people others say they have no reason to help.

 

Regarding putting one life ahead of another based on demographics, from a purely personal point of view...I'm human. I have self-interest, and I have interest in the human race as a whole. Everything in between? Not so much. Though I understand why some people think differently.

[ozleicester]

Most of these acts have been carried out by... men.

 

Lets just remove or imprison all men, problem solved?

[Guest MattP]

We've had men in Europe for the whole of the last century and we never saw 1,000 strong mobs engaging in mass sex attacks in Germany, Finland or Sweden.

Don't deliberately ignore the problem and try and blame "men" for it when you know damn well that's not the cause.

[Guest MattP]

You were one the refugees welcome mob (when you also knew full well most of these are young economic migrants) now suck it up and deal with your actions instead of trying to blame things nothing to do with you.

[ozleicester]

If you want to suggest that all refugees should be banned/deported... because of the actions of a few... then the same rationale must apply to men.

 

Stupid generalisations dont help anyone.

 

edit ....

 

According to Janice Turner in the Times, it’s crime figures that tell the most powerful story.

In her column this week she presented a series of statistics that make for sombre reading: men are responsible for 85% of all indictable crimes in England and Wales, 88% of crimes against the person, 90% of murders, and98% of sexual offences (all for the year to June 2012).

[Guest MattP]

No I didn't say that.

However anyone with an ounce of common sense could see what was going to happen when you invite over a million young often uneducated economic migrants from a backwards culture into Western society.

You were complicit in this, you didn't care whether these people were genuine or not, you didn't care whether they were refugees or not, you spent pages on here advocating open doors and telling us "no human was illegal"

You can try and shed the shame if you want but you and your ilk are all complicit in this and should be ashamed.

Just don't ever describe yourself as a feminist again, no one who puts so many women through this sort of unpleasantness can ever claim to be one.

[Webbo]

If you want to suggest that all refugees should be banned/deported... because of the actions of a few... then the same rationale must apply to men.

 

Stupid generalisations dont help anyone.

 

edit ....

 

According to Janice Turner in the Times, it’s crime figures that tell the most powerful story.

In her column this week she presented a series of statistics that make for sombre reading: men are responsible for 85% of all indictable crimes in England and Wales, 88% of crimes against the person, 90% of murders, and98% of sexual offences (all for the year to June 2012).

You're just obfuscating and you know it. Talking shit won't convince anyone.

[ozleicester]

You're just obfuscating and you know it. Talking shit won't convince anyone.

 

No, i really dont think i am.

 

The fact is, a number of refugees have been accused of ilegal acts.. and people are branding ALL refugees as a result.

 

I am doing no different. 

 

People who act illegally should be brought before the courts and treated in accordance with the law. But that doesnt mean that all other people of the same gender, race, colour, religious belief etc.. should be held accountable.