Migrants - What's the answer?

[MPH]

The thread is about the migrant crisis actually, not immigration per se which would probably appear in the politics thread.

 

then lets delete half on the posts in this thread then shall we? 

[Rincewind]

Migrant crisis>Should Britain take them >immigration>objections from certain groups.

[Guest MattP]

Migrant crisis = hence we are talking about an incident in Cologne in Germany.

Immigration to Britain = politics thread, no mention of migrants into Germany.

[MooseBreath]

From what I've read the police seem to believe they weren't new arrivals.

All the news stories I've read are quoting the policeman who said that they were asylum seekers. I haven't seen anything that says the police are now saying they weren't new arrivals.

Not sure how much we should rely on what the police say now anyway. They'll say whatever will do most to diffuse the situation because their assess are hanging in the wind over this.

[Buce]

I guess i just hate whats happened and hate the fact it will give cretinous organisations like Britain first and EDL fuel to fan their own flames... It's just an ugly situation all round....

I'm not a supporter of either organization, but it's not like they are having to make anything up, is it? This shit is happening all over Europe.

I spent a lot of time travelling in the Middle East when I was younger, and this type of behaviour is commonplace - not just toward Western women, either, any unaccompanied woman is at risk. The simple fact is that their cultural and religious beliefs are largely incompatible with Western values and culture.

The refugee crisis is a crisis for those displaced, true, but it is going to be a disaster for Europe - mark my words.

[MPH]

Migrant crisis = hence we are talking about an incident in Cologne in Germany.

Immigration to Britain = politics thread, no mention of migrants into Germany.

 

 

 

So if they come into Britain they are not considered migrants?

[Guest MattP]

Blimey Buce this has to be the first time me and you have agreed on something regarding immigration.

[Buce]

So if they come into Britain they are not considered migrants?

Does it really matter which thread it's discussed in?

[MPH]

Does it really matter which thread it's discussed in?

 

 

no! of course not! I'm assuming that was intended for MattP, though?

[Buce]

Blimey Buce this has to be the first time me and you have agreed on something regarding immigration.

I don't think we've ever really discussed it, Matt.

No offence, but you do tend to pigeon-hole left-wing thinkers as all the same - my politics are my own, they just happen to have a leftist slant on most things. Immigration is not one of them. Nor is multi-culturalism, tbh. No doubt that makes me a racist in the eyes of some.

[bovril]

All the news stories I've read are quoting the policeman who said that they were asylum seekers. I haven't seen anything that says the police are now saying they weren't new arrivals.

Not sure how much we should rely on what the police say now anyway. They'll say whatever will do most to diffuse the situation because their assess are hanging in the wind over this.

 

Oh ok. I read that "police stressed they were not new arrivals" in one of the reports this morning but you're right, other reports I've just read provide accounts claiming the men didn't speak German or English.

The fact it's taken so long for the story to come out suggests the full facts are being somewhat 'managed'.

[Guest MattP]

None taken, thinking about it you've not said much on immigration.

[Buce]

no! of course not! I'm assuming that was intended for MattP, though?

Possibly.

No offence, but I found the arguement to be rather petty, tbh, and distracting from the real issues, so I'm not much concerned about who said what.

[Merging Cultures]

Apparently the way to deal with the migrant issue is just to keep them at arms length. If I was German, I'd be very annoyed at German political figures right now. They have put them in this mess, regardless of whether the people are new arrivals or not.

[Thracian]

This is what concerns me. I think the perpetrators of the crimes should not be associated with the genuine refugees. It is an insult to the refugees to call them the same. As for covering up the rapes, this is nothing new. It goes on  worldwide even in the UK. Families cover it up for daughters because of the 'shame' So it is not only covering up on this occasion that is wrong.

I trust the ones will be caught and punished and the process will not involve scapegoating.

I  do not condone or defend the actions at all. They do not deserve the help being offered by organisations and individuals across Europe and the World. I trust this clears up any misunderstanding regarding my views.

 

 

You are so naive. In these days of easily obtained false papers, how do we possibly let thousands of newcomers without inviting serious trouble to come in alongside them? The truth is we don't. So we are wilfully compromising the safety of our own people in admitting them.

 

You might not condone or defend the assaults but you show no desire or willingness to do anything about them either - nor to take responsibility on behalf of the next generations, any more than Blair did with his serial deceitfulness and Brown did for the economy.

 

Like I've said we need to leave the EU, re-establish our own laws and act in our interests first.   

 

The only incomers we should accept are those who don't need benefits of any kind and can furnish a returnable deposit to prove it,  who amass sufficient points on an acceptable level of demands, who speak the language properly, who do have work to go to and whose claims can and will be properly verified by answerable people. 

 

Even then they should be accepted only on an initial (renewable) two-year visitor residency incorporating the right and requirement to work. No-one should come here if the job they're moving into could reasonably be done by a native applicant. Our first responsibility is to educate and look after our own.      

 

Furthermore there should be strict and signatorially agreed conditions of coming here with clauses concerning false disclosure, criminal acts committed here or found to have been committed elsewhere, memberships of/or links to subversive organisations including religious fundamentalism and more.

 

Anyone coming here with provenly false papers, including false qualifications should face strict punishment but all should be responsibly checked by British natives fully answerable for doing that job properly and responsibly.        

 

Nor should any immigration condition be modified by the birth of children over here and a method of potential deportation (including the recipient country)  should be agreed with all parties in writing beforehand.

 

This country has been softened up in recent years by flawed Leftist thinking and it is high time the pendulum swung into a far more sensible and responsible era.  

[bovril]

Thracian I want your job, you seem to have a massive lunch break judging by your posts.

[leicsmac]

You are so naive. In these days of easily obtained false papers, how do we possibly let thousands of newcomers without inviting serious trouble to come in alongside them? The truth is we don't. So we are wilfully compromising the safety of our own people in admitting them.

 

You might not condone or defend the assaults but you show no desire or willingness to do anything about them either - nor to take responsibility on behalf of the next generations, any more than Blair did with his serial deceitfulness and Brown did for the economy.

 

Like I've said we need to leave the EU, re-establish our own laws and act in our interests first.   

 

The only incomers we should accept are those who don't need benefits of any kind and can furnish a returnable deposit to prove it,  who amass sufficient points on an acceptable level of demands, who speak the language properly, who do have work to go to and whose claims can and will be properly verified by answerable people. 

 

Even then they should be accepted only on an initial (renewable) two-year visitor residency incorporating the right and requirement to work. No-one should come here if the job they're moving into could reasonably be done by a native applicant. Our first responsibility is to educate and look after our own.      

 

Furthermore there should be strict and signatorially agreed conditions of coming here with clauses concerning false disclosure, criminal acts committed here or found to have been committed elsewhere, memberships of/or links to subversive organisations including religious fundamentalism and more.

 

Anyone coming here with provenly false papers, including false qualifications should face strict punishment but all should be responsibly checked by British natives fully answerable for doing that job properly and responsibly.        

 

Nor should any immigration condition be modified by the birth of children over here and a method of potential deportation (including the recipient country)  should be agreed with all parties in writing beforehand.

 

This country has been softened up in recent years by flawed Leftist thinking and it is high time the pendulum swung into a far more sensible and responsible era.  

 

If both the country I am living in now and the country I wish to go to were to apply the same immigration restrictions you seek the UK to apply as described here, I would be able to gain entry to neither. Which, considering my own skillset, clean record and forthcoming marriage ideas, would you consider to be fair?

 

You sound like the old entitled ajossis over here who think they own the country and that all the weigukin should go home. Just goes to show people are the same the world over, I guess.

[Rincewind]

I said the ones responsible should be punished. How is that naive or ignoring it? It is not a black and white situation. There are many other factors to be considered. I try  to keep an open mind  and not believe all the scare stories that are in some of the press.

These people are fleeing  terrorists and just want what is best for their families the same as we all do.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Who would've believed that accepting thousands of misogynistic young men into a country would've led to an increase in sexual assaults?

[Rincewind]

Out of interest how many have  been convicted out of the thousands of suspects?

[MooseBreath]

If both the country I am living in now and the country I wish to go to were to apply the same immigration restrictions you seek the UK to apply as described here, I would be able to gain entry to neither. Which, considering my own skillset, clean record and forthcoming marriage ideas, would you consider to be fair?

You sound like the old entitled ajossis over here who think they own the country and that all the weigukin should go home. Just goes to show people are the same the world over, I guess.

If we assume foreign English teachers are allowed to not speak the language properly then which of Thracian's proposed demands don't you meet?

[MooseBreath]

Out of interest how many have been convicted out of the thousands of suspects?

I think they've made a couple of arrests but the German police appear to have been caught completely by surprise by it, which I suppose is understandable given that mass sexuality assault is a new thing. Maybe the suspects were all wearing scarves around their faces and baseball cap and all the police have to go on are cctv images. The attacks happened, but that doesn't mean finding the suspects will be easy.

[leicsmac]

If we assume foreign English teachers are allowed to not speak the language properly then which of Thracian's proposed demands don't you meet?

 

Exactly that one (we can't just disregard it and say it doesn't count as it was included in his list), as well as - in the views of many in the country I'm in now and morein the country I intend to settle - doing a job that could be done by a native of the country.

[Guest MattP]

Apparently the way to deal with the migrant issue is just to keep them at arms length. If I was German, I'd be very annoyed at German political figures right now. They have put them in this mess, regardless of whether the people are new arrivals or not.

 

I read this this morning, what appalling comments from a elected mayor. I did say to my Dad the other day how long before someone comes out and blames the women for not covering up properly, didn't take long did it?

 

I feel for the people who have fought for years and years for equality, they have been totally let down by this generation of "progressives" that have decided to install their own heirachy of isms and rights and placed Muslims right at the top of it, I bet people like Germaine Greer would be absolutely sickened by some of the stuff they see from the modern left and student unions.

 

Who would've believed that accepting thousands of misogynistic young men into a country would've led to an increase in sexual assaults?

 

 

I know, it's almost like we didn't think the 1.5million would just automatically take on Western values and morals when they crossed the border, I just don't get it.

 

If both the country I am living in now and the country I wish to go to were to apply the same immigration restrictions you seek the UK to apply as described here, I would be able to gain entry to neither. Which, considering my own skillset, clean record and forthcoming marriage ideas, would you consider to be fair?

 

You sound like the old entitled ajossis over here who think they own the country and that all the weigukin should go home. Just goes to show people are the same the world over, I guess.

 

I'm pretty sure you would qualify in any sort of points system we produced given what you have told us.

[leicsmac]

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you would qualify in any sort of points system we produced given what you have told us.

 

Perhaps, but if the immi authorities were as stringent as Thrac wants them to be I'm honestly not sure I could prove that I would be able to do a particular job better than a native.

 

Which is why I'm hoping the current piece of visa paperwork I am filling out will not play too much on that (and that the visa authorities in that country aren't quite as strict as Thrac is) when the time comes for it to be processed.

 

And if it's marginal for someone like me, what chance would another Joe who is slightly less qualified but law-abiding and still wants to try his luck in a different county have?