digitalalba Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Just 20% of British people voted for that cockwomble and his band of bastards and thieves and I wasn't one of them. That man who you so cherish advocates remaining in the EU. That logic is irrelevant to me. It'd be equally dismissed if any other party was in charge. I hate David cameron you gorm.
digitalalba Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Galloway just went a bit mental on the Daily Politics, accusing them of misleading him when he turns up and they confront him over his "arm linking with Farage He made some interesting points re Labour and Corbyn, it seems so strange that when the EU will pretty much block you from implementation of the policies you want ie rail renationalisation, TTIP, fiscal policy similar to Syriza etc that you'll still vote to stay in it, he could be playing politics with this as much as some on the blue side. It was a breath of fresh air watching him tell the truth, and shaming the mainstream media's inability to discuss things in an adult fashion.
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 It watch tremendous. It's a shame to see the BBC, Cameron and other establishment figures churning out this childish "you shouldn't share a platform with him" nonsense, attitudes usually reserved for hard left students, not serious broadcasters and politicians.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 For me national sovereignty and TTIP are the deal breakers. Like MattP says these are the issues the Leave campaign needs to focus on because immigration, while it attracts the majority of people who arn't particularly politicly engaged, has been done to death. Farage needs to **** off now and let moderates take over because he justs gets on most peoples tits.
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Totally agree, anyone who has deep concerns about immigration won't need convincing, they will already be solid outers. Leave the debate on withdrawing now to the intelligent (Michael Gove, Frank Field) the far reaching (Boris Johnson, Priti Patel) and the likeable celebrity (John Cleese, Michael Portillo, Michael Caine, Jessica Ennis etc)
Carl the Llama Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Carl I don't know how many times this needs to be explained, the British people who want out don't want to vote for a system where their elected MP'S become part of a group that has little influence on anything. We want to elect officials of whatever political persuasion to make 100% of the decisions made by Britain or for Britain, anything less isn't good enough. Dissapointed with IDS already resorting to terrorism to try and scaremonger, everyone associated with leave should read Goves exusdus and go from there, the campaign for British independence has to revolve around sovereignty, control and the effects of what a future in the European Union could have on services like the NHS when things like TTIP arrive. Alf nailed it a few posts above (as usual). If somebody comes to me and says they want to leave the EU because they want every last decision that affects Britain to be made by the British government with no external input even for the choices which affect the greater world then that's their opinion and I can't change that (though I would reserve the right to look smug when the same people get up in arms because we no longer have any input at all on the inevitable EU-wide decisions which still have some sort of indirect effect on us here in Britain - I can see the Sun headlines already: "BORDER FARCE: HOW THE EU PAVES THE ROUTE FOR TERRORISTS INTO THE UK", "BRITAIN BLACKMAILED AS SOARING PRICES IN THE EU RAISE BRITISH IMPORT PRICES" or conversely "BRITAIN BLACKMAILED AS EU SUBSIDIES LOWER OUR EXPORT PRICES TO THE EU" etc.). If somebody comes to me and says they want to leave the EU because it's undemocratic and unfairly imposes its will on the British people then I reserve the right to explain to them that their statement is incorrect using verifiable real world information.
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Have my doubts over Farage now, I think he knows a leave vote leaves him and his party as a finished force. The Scottish referendum might be affecting his thinking, he would probably rather take his chances with a remain vote knowing it would leave about 45% of the electorate possibly switching to his party in protest, obviously he wouldn't get that figure, but he'd probably get a sizable portion of it.
ramboacdc Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 euro rate to £ is dropping. lowest for a long time right now and still dropping.
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Corbyn currently making a fantastic pitch to leave the European Union in response to Cameron.
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Basically the EU doesn't work, it hasn't for ages, Cameron's deal is shit and makes its worse and for that reason he is voting to stay. He's playing as much of a political game here as Boris is, there is no way he isn't still a strong Eurosceptic. If he was really so passionate about it he would be playing a role in the campaign to stay. I felt uncomfortable watching the whole thing to be honest, it came across like a load of politicians desperate to keep on taking wages while having as little responsibility as possible for the job they were voted in to do, shame we all can't have that.
Webbo Posted 22 February 2016 Author Posted 22 February 2016 Labour's strategy to me seems to be say nothing and hope that the tories tear themselves apart over the issue.A pretty cynical ploy for the party that want's a new kind of politics.
digitalalba Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 For me national sovereignty and TTIP are the deal breakers. Like MattP says these are the issues the Leave campaign needs to focus on because immigration, while it attracts the majority of people who arn't particularly politicly engaged, has been done to death. Farage needs to **** off now and let moderates take over because he justs gets on most peoples tits. 4 million disagree, and if referendum turnouts are anything to go by, we'll need him and his message.
digitalalba Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Totally agree, anyone who has deep concerns about immigration won't need convincing, they will already be solid outers. Leave the debate on withdrawing now to the intelligent (Michael Gove, Frank Field) the far reaching (Boris Johnson, Priti Patel) and the likeable celebrity (John Cleese, Michael Portillo, Michael Caine, Jessica Ennis etc) How is Priti patel far reaching? Tell you what, when you look at the names that are for the Out campaign, you begin to think that we have a chance. Portillo has been an influencial intelligent mainstream commentator for years. Guests on This Week look at him for his words way more than the person sat beside him, even Alan Johnson, Labour's front Remain leader. Frank Field has THE most respect opinion in British politics http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/frank-field-this-deal-is-awful-labour-supporters-should-vote-out/ The name of Boris will grab London voters who will majoritially vote to Remain. Him and Zac will bolster that. Michael Gove is a prominent member of the Government. Glease and Caine are respected British actors. Daniel Hannan is a very credible Out campaigner. There are many groups too, The Bow Group Campaign against Euro Federalism Global Britain "Peter Cruddas, who has given the Tories over £1.2 million will join Labour’s largest individual donor John Mills and Stuart Wheeler who bankrolled Ukip as joint treasurers of the cross party ‘leave’ campaign." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/emb-0000-eu-referendum-three-of-uks-biggest-donors-to-bankroll-out-campaign-a6687066.html
Sharpe's Fox Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 4 million disagree, and if referendum turnouts are anything to go by, we'll need him and his message. Those 4 million are on board and are nowhere near enough to win a referendum. If Farage was as popular, wide reaching and inclusive as you misguidedly think he is UKIP would have more than 1 MP. If you want to win the thing you convince people on the left that the EU governing bodies are undemocratic and unelected and have no place in the democratic country the UK has always stood to be and people in the centre that the economy won't take a such a big hit that the In campaign claim it will. These are easy and the right arguments to debate, but it becomes a lot more difficult if Farage and the dumb fvcks who only care about getting rid of foreigners drag the campaign rightward to one about nationalistic fervour.
digitalalba Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Those 4 million are on board and are nowhere near enough to win a referendum. If Farage was as popular, wide reaching and inclusive as you misguidedly think he is UKIP would have more than 1 MP. If you want to win the thing you convince people on the left that the EU governing bodies are undemocratic and unelected and have no place in the democratic country the UK has always stood to be and people in the centre that the economy won't take a such a big hit that the In campaign claim it will. These are easy and the right arguments to debate, but it becomes a lot more difficult if Farage and the dumb fvcks who only care about getting rid of foreigners drag the campaign rightward to one about nationalistic fervour. Firstly, i'm no fan of Nigel. Secondly, 1 MP to 4 million votes means the voting system is a shambles. Thirdly, how many votes will win it? Fourthly, you are right, we need allsorts, that's why Farage is having meetings with the far left, and welcomes others. Fithly, you can't read very well.
Strokes Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Those 4 million are on board and are nowhere near enough to win a referendum. If Farage was as popular, wide reaching and inclusive as you misguidedly think he is UKIP would have more than 1 MP. If you want to win the thing you convince people on the left that the EU governing bodies are undemocratic and unelected and have no place in the democratic country the UK has always stood to be and people in the centre that the economy won't take a such a big hit that the In campaign claim it will. These are easy and the right arguments to debate, but it becomes a lot more difficult if Farage and the dumb fvcks who only care about getting rid of foreigners drag the campaign rightward to one about nationalistic fervour. You make some excellent points and I agree that we need Nigel to take a back seat now, he has done his job, now we need some politians that are respected across the board to take the lead and engage the centre ground. It's not just about immigration and these arguments need to be at the front of the campaign now.
Leicesterpool Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Not normally into politics, but this I do feel strongly about. For me I'm all for Leaving the EU. We've been treated very poorly over the last few years and I'm afraid it's got to the point that enough is enough. The EU as held us back for too long!
theessexfox Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Not normally into politics, but this I do feel strongly about. For me I'm all for Leaving the EU. We've been treated very poorly over the last few years and I'm afraid it's got to the point that enough is enough. The EU as held us back for too long! In what ways have we been treaty very poorly?
Carl the Llama Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Firstly, i'm no fan of Nigel. Secondly, 1 MP to 4 million votes means the voting system is a shambles. Thirdly, how many votes will win it? Fourthly, you are right, we need allsorts, that's why Farage is having meetings with the far left, and welcomes others. Fithly, you can't read very well. I agree, it's not working perfectly and finding a solution to the problem is tough so let's all take a leaf out of this debate here and give up on the whole idea; let's disband parliament; tear down the banks and corporations; torch the post offices; set the shopping malls on fire; then sit back and watch the world burn.
Strokes Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 I agree, it's not working perfectly and finding a solution to the problem is tough so let's all take a leaf out of this debate here and give up on the whole idea; let's disband parliament; tear down the banks and corporations; torch the post offices; set the shopping malls on fire; then sit back and watch the world burn.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 I do think it's a joke that as a country we're victims of our own success. There aren't many nations in the EU as strong economically as us (if at all) so folk are going to want to come here (fair play to them though) What I don't like is this idea of them sending back their benefits obtained whilst here back to their country of origin to support their families. In fact- I can't believe it's been going on for so long in the first instance without much objection to it. Maybe I've just been an ostrich for too long, but Saturday's 'deal' has certainly opened my eyes as to how much we seem to get taken for a ride As Brits can we do that in Australia? (I know they're not in the EU obviously, I'm just comparing with another country arguably more prosperous than ours) In what ways have we been treaty very poorly?I do think it's a joke that as a country we're victims of our own success. There aren't many nations in the EU as strong economically as us (if at all) so folk are going to want to come here (fair play to them though) What I don't like is this idea of them sending back their benefits obtained whilst here back to their country of origin to support their families. As Brits can we do that in Australia? (I know they're not in the EU obviously, I'm just comparing with another country arguably more prosperous than ours)
Webbo Posted 22 February 2016 Author Posted 22 February 2016 Some interesting facts, make of them as you will. https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/
Strokes Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Some interesting facts, make of them as you will. https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/ I can't see Norway on their Webster, it must be fake.
Carl the Llama Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Some interesting facts, make of them as you will. https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/ Some conclusions: -If trade between Britain and the EU remains the same after a split we'd account for 16% of their exports. -If trade between Britain and the EU remains the same after a split the UK would rely more heavily on imported EU produce than anywhere else in the world which could be significant for an island nation which generally imports more than it exports: -If trade between Britain and the EU remains the same after a split they'd still be where 55% of our exports end up. (Click on the link to "full commentary" at the top of this page and go to page 5 for the country by country breakdown.) Correction: 39% - Switzerland is of course not an EU country.
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