The NHS (National Health Service) Thread

[Paninistickers]

17 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

the decision makers were too slow to spot that children neither suffered from covid

That was known more or less from the get go. 

 

I presume the Govt were more worried about teaching unions kicking off about the safety of their staff than the kids, who who at almost zero threat from the infection (and certainly way way less endangered from it than they would be meningitis, measles, chick pox, TB even etc) 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

 

You're putting far too much on the NHS people there.  

 

1.  It's possible to make a wrong decision without being incompetent.  You can make the best decision possible with all the available evidence, and still be wrong.  

 

2,  For the average employee of any organisation, it's not their place to agree or disagree with a decision - simply to do it.  It's not possible to have an organisation of half a million medical staff each making their own decisions on whether to treat covid as the problem above all else, or whether to treat it as a problem among all others.  The organisation wouldn't function.  It would be like the consultant treating his patient's cancer one way while the nurse makes his or her own decision to treat it a different way.  It wouldn't, and couldn't, work.  The decision is made at higher level, and people at lower levels have to implement it (even if they disagree).

1. I agree. The conspiracy theorists do not.

 

2. Again I agree, but it really doesn't add any solid evidence to the idea being floated that Covid wasn't actually all that, does it?

 

Allow me to be clear - I think that the NHS and its staff did the best they could with the information they had, and I also believe in their integrity enough that if something had been afoot regarding the seriousness of the issue, there would have been enough smoke from enough people to alter course and I see no reason to suspect they got much wrong at all - especially when dealing with a hitherto unknown gift from the natural world. It may be fair to be sceptical of the political talking heads, but, like other scientific issues, the scientific professionals do have a voice of their own, it does almost always come through in terms of consensus regarding what policy should be done (even if it isn't then done) and if someone thinks that isn't the case, they'd better be prepared to prove it.

 

Conspiracy theories on this matter and other matters of science deserve Hitchens Razor: present evidence (in which case they become legit conspiracies) or be dismissed without evidence.

[Wymsey]

Potential bad news for University Hospitals of Leicester and many other Trusts.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/leicester-hospitals-transformation-thrown-doubt-9436944

 

 

Edited 26 July 2024 by Wymsey

[Daggers]

10 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Potential bad news for University Hospitals of Leicester and many other Trusts.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/leicester-hospitals-transformation-thrown-doubt-9436944

 

 

Given they've been starved of funds since Cameron, I don't think any Trust board member is going to be reading that and going WTF. 

[FoxyPV]

On 21/07/2024 at 17:00, Paninistickers said:

That was known more or less from the get go. 

 

I presume the Govt were more worried about teaching unions kicking off about the safety of their staff than the kids, who who at almost zero threat from the infection (and certainly way way less endangered from it than they would be meningitis, measles, chick pox, TB even etc) 

If your teachers are off sick then there are no classes

[Daggers]

5 hours ago, FoxyPV said:

If your teachers are off sick then there are no classes

If only we lived in a country where children existed in isolation from the rest of society, eh?

 

Instead, kids and staff share homes with relations who may have been at high risk. As much as it doesn't feature on his radar (because presumably he doesn't care), it had everything to do with being able to see a bigger picture and having a responsibility for the whole of society. One only has to look at how flu and viral gastroenteritis radiate through the population from class contamination - and had SFA to do with 'unions kicking off'.

 

It staggers me that we're coming up to five years after the event and some of these people still don't grasp the basics.

 

[Paninistickers]

3 hours ago, Daggers said:

If only we lived in a country where children existed in isolation from the rest of society, eh?

 

Instead, kids and staff share homes with relations who may have been at high risk. As much as it doesn't feature on his radar (because presumably he doesn't care), it had everything to do with being able to see a bigger picture and having a responsibility for the whole of society. One only has to look at how flu and viral gastroenteritis radiate through the population from class contamination - and had SFA to do with 'unions kicking off'.

 

It staggers me that we're coming up to five years after the event and some of these people still don't grasp the basics.

 

Yup, sure. 

 

Good job that, unlike teachers, all shop workers did live in isolation. All NHS staff fortunately didn't have the communal housing that teachers had. Amazon workers, TV presenters, Lorry drivers too, all of them lived in solitary. 

 

The basics were that it wasn't harmful to anyone under 60 odd unless they were very very unwell or very very very unlucky. 

 

 

[Daggers]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

Yup, sure. 

 

Good job that, unlike teachers, all shop workers did live in isolation. All NHS staff fortunately didn't have the communal housing that teachers had. Amazon workers, TV presenters, Lorry drivers too, all of them lived in solitary. 

 

The basics were that it wasn't harmful to anyone under 60 odd unless they were very very unwell or very very very unlucky. 

 

 

Five years and you are still advertising your stupidity like it's a clever thing to do.

 

Go away, shoooooo, go talk to someone who tolerates your ridiculousness. Idiot.

[Greg2607]

2 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Yup, sure. 

 

Good job that, unlike teachers, all shop workers did live in isolation. All NHS staff fortunately didn't have the communal housing that teachers had. Amazon workers, TV presenters, Lorry drivers too, all of them lived in solitary. 

 

The basics were that it wasn't harmful to anyone under 60 odd unless they were very very unwell or very very very unlucky. 

 

 

Go and tell that to my relative that died a horrendous death from it. If you weren't impacted and didn't see the suffering it caused to people who did become seriously ill, then you really cannot fathom it and have no place to comment. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Go and tell that to my relative that died a horrendous death from it. If you weren't impacted and didn't see the suffering it caused to people who did become seriously ill, then you really cannot fathom it and have no place to comment. 

 

 

But a part of a country with the cornerstone of freedom of speech provisions is that those possessed of a monumental lack of empathy can air those unempathetic views.

 

Of course, the flip side is that they can, and should, also be called out for it.

[dsr-burnley]

17 hours ago, FoxyPV said:

If your teachers are off sick then there are no classes

The danger of there being no classes is not a valid reason to stop all classes.  It's not logical.  

 

There was good reason to close schools early on in the pandemic, because they didn't know it was negligibly dangerous for children and they didn't know that children didn't pass it on easily.  But they should have been able to spot far faster than they did, that closing schools wasn't needed.  

[Daggers]

5 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

... children didn't pass it on easily...

Absolute bollocks.

 

I'd substantiate this with studies, but if you're thick enough to have made it to today still spouting this absolute shit I doubt you have the comprehension skills required to understand them.

[FoxyPV]

6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

The danger of there being no classes is not a valid reason to stop all classes.  It's not logical.  

 

There was good reason to close schools early on in the pandemic, because they didn't know it was negligibly dangerous for children and they didn't know that children didn't pass it on easily.  But they should have been able to spot far faster than they did, that closing schools wasn't needed.  

I can't even begin to unpick the nonsense in this response 

[Parafox]

On 27/07/2024 at 17:52, Paninistickers said:

Yup, sure. 

 

Good job that, unlike teachers, all shop workers did live in isolation. All NHS staff fortunately didn't have the communal housing that teachers had. Amazon workers, TV presenters, Lorry drivers too, all of them lived in solitary. 

 

1) The basics were that it wasn't harmful to anyone under 60 odd unless they were very very unwell or very very very unlucky. 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

The danger of there being no classes is not a valid reason to stop all classes.  It's not logical.  

 

2) There was good reason to close schools early on in the pandemic, because they didn't know it was negligibly dangerous for children and they didn't know that children didn't pass it on easily.  But they should have been able to spot far faster than they did, that closing schools wasn't needed.  

 

1) I went to 3 cardiac arrests in 3 days during the pandemic. All 3 were under 40, no history of significant illness, yet all 3 died in a household where Covid was present. 3 deaths in 3 days of men under 40 is itself, highly unlikely in the same area of the population.

 

2) All 3 deaths occurred in households where the children had attended school before they were shut down.

 

[bovril]

I have observed both in my own family and also working in education issues with the social and educational development of young people that I think can only be put down to the lockdown. Plenty of studies into it now as well. Surprised how dismissive and honestly quite abusive some people are of anyone questioning the wisdom of closing schools and universities. 

[Paninistickers]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

I have observed both in my own family and also working in education issues with the social and educational development of young people that I think can only be put down to the lockdown. Plenty of studies into it now as well. Surprised how dismissive and honestly quite abusive some people are of anyone questioning the wisdom of closing schools and universities. 

Mate, there's a hardcore of people on here that assume any questions about COVID equate to a MAGA Trumpian /  Tommy Robinson fanboy / conspiracy nutter

 

Some people simply cannot tolerate a counter argument that lockdown may well have caused as problems as it solved.  

 

I think such a stance says alot of them themselves and their viewpoint 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Mate, there's a hardcore of people on here that assume any questions about COVID equate to a MAGA Trumpian /  Tommy Robinson fanboy / conspiracy nutter

 

Some people simply cannot tolerate a counter argument that lockdown may well have caused as problems as it solved.  

 

I think such a stance says alot of them themselves and their viewpoint 

... and there has also been lots of reasonable back and forth on the topic here.

 

Thankfully, this particular shot across the bows of our civilisation from the natural world was one that, thanks to hard work and some luck, we managed to deal with enough that we can have this kind of discussion on this platform about it afterwards.

 

The next one might be a larger, more accurate shot.

[Paninistickers]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... and there has also been lots of reasonable back and forth on the topic here.

 

Thankfully, this particular shot across the bows of our civilisation from the natural world was one that, thanks to hard work and some luck, we managed to deal with enough that we can have this kind of discussion on this platform about it afterwards.

 

The next one might be a larger, more accurate shot.

Tbf, you come across as a very reasonable debater. I enjoy reading your well put views on this subject. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree that we could've done virtually nothing with covid and the outcomes would still be ( more or less) what life is for us all today. After all, COVID has now been downgraded to what I personally considered it in the first place - a bit of a sniffle and head cold. But that's not the point. 

 

The point is, you have a view. Punters like @Daggers do too. But he's quite abusive with it. Which I'm fine with as frankly, I find him a total oddball. Not just on this subject, but on most items I see him chirping on. 

 

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Tbf, you come across as a very reasonable debater. I enjoy reading your well put views on this subject. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree that we could've done virtually nothing with covid and the outcomes would still be ( more or less) what life is for us all today. After all, COVID has now been downgraded to what I personally considered it in the first place - a bit of a sniffle and head cold. But that's not the point. 

 

The point is, you have a view. Punters like @Daggers do too. But he's quite abusive with it. Which I'm fine with as frankly, I find him a total oddball. Not just on this subject, but on most items I see him chirping on. 

 

Fair enough.

 

My own point in return is, as above, to be wary of underestimating acts of nature and that perhaps some people should take what it can do in the future a bit more seriously than they did with Covid, because the next time such complacency might come with a much, much stiffer penalty.

[Paninistickers]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough.

 

My own point in return is, as above, to be wary of underestimating acts of nature and that perhaps some people should take what it can do in the future a bit more seriously than they did with Covid, because the next time such complacency might come with a much, much stiffer penalty.

If we had a bubonic plague equivalent doing the rounds, count me in. 

.

This was never ever in that league. 

 

I guess the whole exercise was a decent dry run for a virus that does actually threaten our existence though (however, I suspect antibiotic resistance will prove the far likeliest problem in the next 50 years)

 

 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

If we had a bubonic plague equivalent doing the rounds, count me in. 

.

This was never ever in that league. 

 

I guess the whole exercise was a decent dry run for a virus that does actually threaten our existence though (however, I suspect antibiotic resistance will prove the far likeliest problem in the next 50 years)

 

 

That will almost certainly be a massive problem, yes.

 

But then I just hope we're ready for novel diseases too, as well as whatever else the natural world has to test us with.

[Daggers]

36 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Mate, there's a hardcore of people on here that assume any questions about COVID equate to a MAGA Trumpian /  Tommy Robinson fanboy / conspiracy nutter

 

Some people simply cannot tolerate a counter argument that lockdown may well have caused as problems as it solved.  

 

I think such a stance says alot of them themselves and their viewpoint 

When you've mopped up those tears, I'll remind you that you said "children didn't pass it on easily".

 

This is scientifically illiterate bollocks and deserves to be called out for that. It's the repetition of arguments used by Far Right loons, libertarian tossers, and conspiracy cranks. It doesn't propose a counter argument, it denies the existence of proven fact.

 

But then what can anyone expect from someone who posts something as dumb as "COVID has now been downgraded to what I personally considered it in the first place - a bit of a sniffle and head cold"? It exemplifies your wholesale lack of understanding of viral transmission, risk, and resilience at population level changing over time.

[grobyfox1990]

14 hours ago, Daggers said:

Absolute bollocks.

 

I'd substantiate this with studies, but if you're thick enough to have made it to today still spouting this absolute shit I doubt you have the comprehension skills required to understand them.

Whilst I do agree with what my kpfc loving bro is saying here, how do you get away with posting such rambling sweary manchild gibberish? You see dudes get banned for saying ‘cancer’ on this website lol, yet you can come out with the above guff and all good.
Credit where it’s due I suppose!

[orangecity23]

15 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

If we had a bubonic plague equivalent doing the rounds, count me in. 

.

This was never ever in that league. 

 

I guess the whole exercise was a decent dry run for a virus that does actually threaten our existence though (however, I suspect antibiotic resistance will prove the far likeliest problem in the next 50 years)

 

 

You've said this before, so I'll post this again for you to ignore again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics_and_pandemics

 

Covid was the 5th deadliest pandemic in human history, one place below Bubonic Plague. Most of the entries on the list were forms of influenza, including the number one spot, Spanish flu.

[Tommy G]

Can’t believe I got banned from the politics thread for calling out Labour after what I’ve read on here, consistency mods please…