Hillsborough Inquest Finds 96 Liverpool Fans Were 'Unlawfully Killed'

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I admit, it could have been worded better. Whether anyone likes it or not though, it will raise questions from individuals and groups of people who have had doubts over the families eventual end game etc unfortunately. As much was evident in the jury voting of 7-2, and that was only amongst 9 people.

Remember the SYP maintained their long standing discredited defence during the inquest - it fooled lots of people for many a year, so is it not conceivable that it may have effected 2 jurors as well?

[stripeyfox]

At no point did I, or have I ever mentioned anything regarding ambulance chasing or anything of the sort. I just feel that in my opinion, this has slightly taken the edge off of what should have been the end of the chapter and finally give the families peace of mind which they have been fighting for for. Instead of more headlines about justice, there might be an opportunity for some papers and people to make a big point out if it, and be able to turn and point the finger back at the families and say it has been about the money etc.

The end of the inquest is not the "end of the chapter" though. It puts things back to more or less how they should have been after the first inquest 25 years ago. We now know what happened, what the failings were and that people were unlawfully killed, and that an attempt was made to cover it up by SYC and subsequently the West Midlands Constabulary who were tasked with reviewing the SY police statements.

So we are nowhere near "the end". Prosecutions could well follow and compensation claims, and so they should.

[stripeyfox]

The combined legal case mentioned today is actually on behalf of almost 400 people who have been affected in some way or another. The £20M figure has been dropped in by Sky News and others deliberately to provoke exactly the kind of reaction some have had here.

I'd wait until we know more about who is suing and for what before people rush to condemn people.

[Guest MattP]

Yeah how dare families want to be compensated after having their relatives killed and nationally smeared for 27 years.

 

But why then tell us for years that that was never going to be the intention?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

But why then tell us for years that that was never going to be the intention?

Got a direct quote for that? If you don't I suggest you withdraw the comment.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-disaster-survivors-too-late-4000101

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-27464/Hillsborough-policeman-gets-330-000-payout.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hillsborough-cops-receive-93k-payout-1326463

@@MattP

Edited 28 April 2016 by DJ Barry Hammond

[ajthefox]

Went to the vigil yesterday, very powerful stuff. Makes me proud to be a resident of such a great city when it's able to show such togetherness and strength.

 

I think if anyone heard the speeches I heard yesterday they would be quite quick to realise it's definitely not about compensation.

[Guest MattP]

Got a direct quote for that? If you don't I suggest you withdraw the comment.

 

What is this weird obsession you have with trying to get people to withdraw comments? It's an Internet forum, you treat it like you are Chuck McGill. I've heard it said numerous times over the years by all sorts of people and politicians connected to the campaign, the lawyers wil be rubbing the hands with glee though, this has already been a huge cow and it's not slowing up.

 

South Yorkshire Police really do have a lot to answer for, I hope the compo is directly taken from them, the whole nation having to stump up for their mistakes is terrible, why should our public services have to suffer because of them?

[stripeyfox]

Went to the vigil yesterday, very powerful stuff. Makes me proud to be a resident of such a great city when it's able to show such togetherness and strength.

I think if anyone heard the speeches I heard yesterday they would be quite quick to realise it's definitely not about compensation.

I watched it - I thought it was great. For those of us who have choked on these lies for over a quarter of century, it felt like a vindication. A triumph for the families over a system that was rigged against them from the start.

Whilst out this morning walking the dogs, I thought back to April 1989 - I was 16 then and watched it unfold on Grandstand. Within minute BBC were reporting that a gate had been "forced" and thousands of ticketless fans had swamped in causing the crush. It was not long after that we discovered that was lie and I remember thinking "if they lied about that, what else are they lying about?"

Phil Scraton's excellent book really gave me the answers to what they were lying about.

And I think how my life has changed in 27 years. It's a world away from the kid I was in 1989, like all of us. But I have carried Hillsborough with me. Trying to "educate" bigots in the pub over the years but being shouted down as an apologist for "scouse victims". Having to face people who clearly knew nothing other than the tabloid lies and pub chatter.

Hopefully this verdict will help to silence these cretins. Hopefully the Hillsborough chanting at Liverpool fans will cease.

Hopefully, they perhaps can finally "Walk on with hope their hearts".

[GaelicFox]

The fund should be 100m

And properly compensate the families for the 25 year plus life sentence the served fighting this injustice

It's only money

We send 150m a year to India to help pay for schools

And India is one of the richest countries on the planet !!!

Priorities ?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

What is this weird obsession you have with trying to get people to withdraw comments? It's an Internet forum, you treat it like you are Chuck McGill. I've heard it said numerous times over the years by all sorts of people and politicians connected to the campaign, the lawyers wil be rubbing the hands with glee though, this has already been a huge cow and it's not slowing up.

 

South Yorkshire Police really do have a lot to answer for, I hope the compo is directly taken from them, the whole nation having to stump up for their mistakes is terrible, why should our public services have to suffer because of them?

I challenged your specific comment about the compensation because you know as well as I do, that if unfounded it is quite frankly a smear. It's an attempt to diminish the actions of the families involved by questioning their motives.

Ok, "it's an Internet forum" but that's no excuse for not wanting a higher standard of debate on serious matters is it? What is wrong with asking people to rethink the founding, impact and/or implications of their comments?

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant now and I apologise for that. I was too young to clearly remember the disaster and the aftermath. Can someone please clarify what these lies were? Obviously it was a blame shift but what exactly did the police cover up or lie about? Thanks in advance.

[stripeyfox]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant now and I apologise for that. I was too young to clearly remember the disaster and the aftermath. Can someone please clarify what these lies were? Obviously it was a blame shift but what exactly did the police cover up or lie about? Thanks in advance.

No problem with being too young to remember but it would be worth your while taking the time to read up on it. The Hillsborough Independent Panel report would be a good starting point, it is available free online.

The first and perhaps most damaging lie was the first one. Having failed to adequately prepare for the game and being unfamiliar with the layout of Leppings Lane in particular, Spt Duckenfield was faced with a very dangerous situation as thousands were trying to gain access through the turnstiles. With the very real risk of someone dying outside, he gave the order to open an exit gate to allow uncontrolled flow of Liverpool supporters into Hillsborough. However, he failed to direct his officers to close the internal gates used to close off the tunnel to the central (already crowded) section rather than direct them to the side pens. This was the single primary cause of the crush. Yet, within fifteen minutes or so, Duckenfield told FA officials that the gate had been "forced" open by Liverpool fans.

Within minutes this lie was being repeated by commentators on radio and TV around the world.

The truth was already being poisoned.

Haven't got time to go further into it now, but read up on it and make your own mind up. Phil Scruton's excellent book "Hillsborough The Truth" is an excellent account of the day and the aftermath.

Edited 30 April 2016 by stripeyfox

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

No problem with being too young to remember but it would be worth your while taking the time to read up on it. The Hillsborough Independent Panel report would be a good starting point, it is available free online.

The first and perhaps most damaging lie was the first one. Having failed to adequately prepare for the game and being unfamiliar with the layout of Leppings Lane in particular, Spt Duckenfield was faced with a very dangerous situation as thousands were trying to gain access through the turnstiles. With the very real risk of someone dying outside, he gave the order to open an exit gate to allow uncontrolled flow of Liverpool supporters into Hillsborough. However, he failed to direct his officers to close the internal gates used to close off the tunnel to the central (already crowded) section rather than direct them to the side pens. This was the single primary cause of the crush. Yet, within fifteen minutes or so, Duckenfield told FA officials that the gate had been "forced" open by Liverpool fans.

Within minutes this lie was being repeated by commentators on radio and TV around the world.

The truth was already being poisoned.

Haven't got time to go further into it now, but read up on it and make your own mind up. Phil Scruton's excellent book "Hillsborough The Truth" is an excellent account of the day and the aftermath.

Thank you for taking the time to give me a starting point and I shall definitely read the report. That first lie as you rightly said is so damming in itself.

I'm also trying to understand the anger at The Sun newspaper too, I know what their headlines were about with "the truth" but how did they get it so wrong? Surely there must have been 'some' substance for their bullet points. What was their source of information?

Absolutely no offence meant to anyone, I'm genuinely trying to get an objective picture of such a massive disaster.

Edited 30 April 2016 by ROB-THE-BLUE

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Thank you for taking the time to give me a starting point and I shall definitely read the report. That first lie as you rightly said is so damming in itself. I'm trying to understand the anger at The Sun newspaper too, I know what their headlines were about with "the truth" but how did they get it so wrong? Surely there must have been 'some' substance for their bullet points. Absolutely no offence meant to anyone, I'm genuinely trying to get an objective picture of such a massive disaster.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/browse/by-contributor/newspaper-editions/all-other-documents125/perpage/20/page/2.html

The above link will take you to copies of newspaper reports around at the time, including the infamous splash by The Sun.

"The Truth" was released about 4/5 days after the incident I believe and was a story essentially provided by the police to them. It seems to have been published without much thought or wish to independently verifying the details being provided.

What's even more strange about that being published is that there was of course a large press continent at the end of the ground while this was all going on - so there should have been some independent accounts, but there was none - in fact the early reporting seemed to know what the errors were and it wasn't the fans to blame.

For balance, it's been said that a lot of the dead voided their bowels, so the associated smell would have been quite prevalent to officers.

[stripeyfox]

Thank you for taking the time to give me a starting point and I shall definitely read the report. That first lie as you rightly said is so damming in itself.

I'm also trying to understand the anger at The Sun newspaper too, I know what their headlines were about with "the truth" but how did they get it so wrong? Surely there must have been 'some' substance for their bullet points. What was their source of information?

Absolutely no offence meant to anyone, I'm genuinely trying to get an objective picture of such a massive disaster.

No problem. It's always good to question things.

Right off the bat, the police were doing the utmost to smear the Liverpool fans. Taking of blood samples to check for alcohol from the deceased, rummaging through bins to find evidence of drinking, quizzing of bereaved relatives and friends as to how much drink had been consumed.

Officers told not to record anything in their notebooks, and instead to write their notes on blank paper which were subsequently edited of any criticism of the police operation before being presented to the original inquest.

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

No problem. It's always good to question things.

Right off the bat, the police were doing the utmost to smear the Liverpool fans. Taking of blood samples to check for alcohol from the deceased, rummaging through bins to find evidence of drinking, quizzing of bereaved relatives and friends as to how much drink had been consumed.

Officers told not to record anything in their notebooks, and instead to write their notes on blank paper which were subsequently edited of any criticism of the police operation before being presented to the original inquest.

Wow. Deplorable.

[Col city fan]

It's been a catalogue of lies, deceit, cover ups and scandal.

All down the line, for decades.

And I'm glad justice will prevail.

Edited 30 April 2016 by Col city fan

[Corky]

The Everton tribute today was really moving, Martinez came across as a class act, embracing the guests such as Margaret Aspinall pitchside before the game.

[stripeyfox]

The Everton tribute today was really moving, Martinez came across as a class act, embracing the guests such as Margaret Aspinall pitchside before the game.

Yes it was fantastic. They've always been great at Everton regarding Hillsborough. Bill Kenwright made a great speech at the memorial service at Anfield a few years ago. Was great to see fans, players, managers, match officials all standing and applauding the families.

It struck me that most of the players lined up for both teams were not even born when it happened. It has been a long time coming.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

If you were in any doubt about this - I recommend you find out the Hillsborough documentary that has just been shown on BBC2 via iPlayer.

[Bobby Hundreds]

That documentary is one of most moving and powerful pieces of TV I've ever seen. Heartbreaking.

[leftbackinthechangingroom]

That documentary is one of most moving and powerful pieces of TV I've ever seen. Heartbreaking.

Just watched it myself heartbreaking stuff all the families had to go through to finally get the truth out.

Absolutely shocked about the alterations in police statements. That and the higher police officials among others covering things up made my blood boil.

[MC Prussian]

The BBC documentary in full:

[kushiro]

Watching that video now... finding myself saying 'bastards...bastards' over and over again.