Is Facism and Pro-Brexit/Euro-scepticism one and the same thing

[GaelicFox]

I think this is a discussion worth a seperate thread

Mainly because the referendum thread is throwing up a huge amount to quite disturbing and wild points of views and accusations about Leave voters. Today at Mass I heard it suggested that We have now become a county Where "raving fascists are passed off as "euro sceptics" "

That's a discussion tread that seems to be woven into a lot of comments passed by remain voters about leave voters.

There are very few deployed definitions of Facism in existence so I go back to one of the founding fathers of Facism , Benito Mussolini.

mussolini outlined the three principles of a fascist philosophy as :

1."Everything in the state". ( refusing Brussels power could be seen as enthusing "Everythjng in the state"

2."Nothing form outside the state" (anti immigration and a greater sense of superiority, UKIP embody this belief)

3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning of the government or the people outside the state will not be tolerated. So EU rules and laws are in effect against the state

It's uncomfortable to comprehend and analyse for many but the debate must be had ! And the question is :

Is Facism and Pro-Brexit/Euro-scepticism one and the same thing ?

[Dr The Singh]

No

[Guest]

It must be time for lunch.

[AKCJ]

No.

 

Close thread.

[Steven]

Yes.

[bovril]

Goal!

 

Oh shit wrong thread.

[Webbo]

1."Everything in the state". ( refusing Brussels power could be seen as enthusing "Everythjng in the state"

 

Brussels was the state.

[Alf Bentley]

No, but the consequences of Brexit and a few more years of the Tory Right could well lead to the growth of fascism.

 

Have just done a long post about this in the Labour Civil War thread, so won't repeat it here.

[Webbo]

No, but the consequences of Brexit and a few more years of the Tory Right could well lead to the growth of fascism.

 

Have just done a long post about this in the Labour Civil War thread, so won't repeat it here.

The growth of Extreme rightwing parties in the EU suggests that leaving makes fascism less likely.

[bovril]

The growth of Extreme rightwing parties in the EU suggests that leaving makes fascism less likely.

 

You assume that because we're leaving we'll avoid the things that make far-right parties popular.

[Alf Bentley]

The growth of Extreme rightwing parties in the EU suggests that leaving makes fascism less likely.

 

 

No. It suggests that fascism is fomented by imposing austerity economics that cause unemployment, insecurity, poverty and desperation.

 

The Eurozone has been imposing austerity, causing the rise of the Far Right on the continent (together with the chaotic response to migration). That's the main reason why I considered voting Leave.

 

The Tory Govt has been doing the same in the UK, causing the swing from Labour to Brexit & UKIP among struggling people in deprived communities - that is likely to accelerate under post-Brexit conditions.

(I've done a longer post about this in the Labour Civil War thread, you'll be delighted to hear)

[Kendal Fox]

Is it truly LIBERAL to deliberately ignore the fact that Benn, Foot and Castle were against the EU because it wouldn't be democratic and then 3 million people simply shifting the goal posts because they didn't get what they wanted with regard to the referendum result??

[Webbo]

The rise of extremist parties, left and right , is a symptom of the arrogance of the political class. Just ignoring and dismissing the views of ordinary people. Accusing people of racism everytime you raise the problem that effect you directly leaves people with nowhere else to go.

 

Blaming this on austerity seems to be the go to excuse of the left since the vote. If they keep kidding themselves on and refuse to listen they'll never learn.

[johnny the fox]

I've seen some desperate stuff from remainers but.....

[bovril]

The rise of extremist parties, left and right , is a symptom of the arrogance of the political class. Just ignoring and dismissing the views of ordinary people. Accusing people of racism everytime you raise the problem that effect you directly leaves people with nowhere else to go.

 

Blaming this on austerity seems to be the go to excuse of the left since the vote. If they keep kidding themselves on and refuse to listen they'll never learn.

 

I respect your point of view but honestly I don't think people are that worried about the arrogance of the political class when they have an extra tenner a week in their back pocket. We voted an arrogant, greedy bastard in 3 times from 97 to 2005.

[apple987]

Hating all this now. The divide in the country at the moment is shocking. I don't know what the answer is. We need answers and quick

[Merging Cultures]

No.

[Webbo]

I respect your point of view but honestly I don't think people are that worried about the arrogance of the political class when they have an extra tenner a week in their back pocket. We voted an arrogant, greedy bastard in 3 times from 97 to 2005.

It was widely trailed and not denied by the leavers that there would be a downward trend in the economy before things improved. People have accepted that they'll be worse off in the short term. Nobody voted for greed.

Hating all this now. The divide in the country at the moment is shocking. I don't know what the answer is. We need answers and quick

Calm down, we only got the result 3 days ago. Were you expecting a new govt already?

[apple987]

It was widely trailed and not denied by the leavers that there would be a downward trend in the economy before things improved. People have accepted that they'll be worse off in the short term. Nobody voted for greed.

Calm down, we only got the result 3 days ago. Were you expecting a new govt already?

Cameron is an absolute **** in my opinion. All this is his fault. He didn't have to resign, the day after the result he should have sorted out article 50 or whatever it is. The result is the result. He lost and he had to take it on the chin. But he didn't. He's going to end up the most hated man in the country in years to come

[Webbo]

Cameron is an absolute **** in my opinion. All this is his fault. He didn't have to resign, the day after the result he should have sorted out article 50 or whatever it is. The result is the result. He lost and he had to take it on the chin. But he didn't. He's going to end up the most hated man in the country in years to come

How can the PM that lost a national referendum have any authority? He had to go and he did it with great dignity. I certainly don't hate him.

[apple987]

How can the PM that lost a national referendum have any authority? He had to go and he did it with great dignity. I certainly don't hate him.

Yes he had to go but not straight away. Its his job to begin the leave proceedings after the British people decided. He hasn't done that. Now we are left with loads more to deal with. A PM will get elected who probably wanted to remain in EU and it won't end up happening. The country is in disarray trust me.

[Webbo]

Yes he had to go but not straight away. Its his job to begin the leave proceedings after the British people decided. He hasn't done that. Now we are left with loads more to deal with. A PM will get elected who probably wanted to remain in EU and it won't end up happening. The country is in disarray trust me.

He's not going until October.

[Jimothy]

Nobody voted for greed.

That's a very confident, generalising statement. I think you need to get out your head that everyone votes the same way as you for the same reasons as you. People voted remain or leave for various different reason, some with merit on both sides, some very spurious reasons on both sides. Some voted with their gut. Some didn't have a clue what they were voting for on both sides, I've seen genuine post on Facebook thinking we actually leaving the continent of Europe so they voted remain to another who voted leave because joining the EU (you know that thing we're currently in) would be too big an adjustment and leave meant keeping things the same. Can you please stop assuming you speak for everyone who put an X in the bottom box.

[apple987]

He's not going until October.

I know but he isn't doing anything about leaving the EU. Its all just being left in limbo. Another thing to add is those pesky negotiations cameron did with EU in February no longer exist. We can expect hoards of immigrants coming into the country in the next year or so. I reckon well over 500,000. Worried about us leaving eu and trying to get here and settled before it happens.

[purpleronnie]

No, but in the poorer communities where the disillusionment is rife there are plenty of people who aren't politically literate but will actually think that right wing populism or worse fascists like Golding's shower of muppets - have the solution to their problems..