davieG Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 Denmark, along with Holland, Switzerland, Scotland and Belgium are ready to hit back. Their dream tickets into European - indeed the world's - elite football competition will get that little bit harder to find from 2018. And in 2021 that could result in a new European league currently being negotiated among clubs from the 'second tier' leagues. FcCopenhagen, Leicester's opponents this Tuesday in Group G of the champions league, are supposedly one of the instigators of this new league. It would encompass the top sides in the Dutch, Belgian and Swedish divisions among others, while Celtic are also said to be at the table. The decision by UEFA to change the Champions League format is about money and appeasing the big boys who are considering a break-away competition themselves. 14 costliest squads in Europe How ironic then that the relative minnows are getting their house in order first. The writing is on the wall for clubs like Copenhagen and their domestic rivals Brondby. UEFA's move restricts growth in other leagues around Europe as investment is funnelled into narrower and narrower streams. Restrict the middling leagues of their right to compete in Europe and domestic interest will diminish. That is what scares PSV, Ajax and co. and is why this underhand negotiation has taken place. Denmark, once a proud footballing nation that won the European championship, had the Laudrup brothers conquering the continent and Brondby pushing for recognition in the 1990s, is suffering from this diminishing interest. As are Holland, Sweden and, let's face it, Scotland. One 3-3 draw with Manchester City is not enough to convince UEFA that the current model works. While the Danish national team struggles to qualify for major tournaments, the domestic league has been forced into a structural shake-up akin to Holland's and Belgium's simply to keep fans keen. But how can you attract supporters when there's better entertainment on TV? It's a real problem in Danish football right now as fans of the sport ditch their clubs and follow the overseas big boys from the comfort of the sofa. Sadly, this is the road UEFA is paving for the game and if you're lucky enough to support one of those hugely successful teams well, congratulations. For the others, who now have to share an even slimmer slice of the pie, there's nothing they can do. Unless, that is, they break away. Unless they ditch their own domestic duties to forge a new competition that can adequately sustain clubs too big for the home front but not big enough for Europe's elite. The Europa League has failed us in that respect. Copenhagen are just one of these low-ranked teams in terms of UEFA standings that have nevertheless outgrown their domestic competition. The club benefits from being in the capital, has the biggest budget by far and a national stadium that dwarfs many of the Superliga's provincial sides. Copenhagen's remit is simple: qualify for the champions league in two of every five seasons. That is going to get harder, even if they win the next 10 domestic titles. Recently they have achieved their goals though. Since their Champions League debut in 2006 - where a Marcus Allback goal helped them to a nationally famous 1-0 victory over Manchester United in the group stage - they have reached this competition on three more occasions. The 2010/11 crop will go down in Danish history as the first to reach the knockout stage. They held eventual champions Barcelona to a 1-1 draw in parken and were eventually eliminated by Chelsea. Two years ago the club again made the group stage but this would prove a disaster as they finished bottom of their group in a campaign UEFA would argue highlights their move to restrict lesser teams' involvement in the competition. GETTY Chelsea beat Copenhagen in the Champions League in 2011 And now here we are. Manager Stale Solbakken has arguably the best squad Danish football has seen since 2010/11, with midfielders William Kvist and Thomas Delaney surviving from that campaign. Copenhagen play roughly the same style whether they're clear favourites or underdogs. With strong centre-forwards Andreas Cornelius and Federico Santander up front, the task is to overlap the full-backs and float in crosses for the big boys to attack. In the Danish Superliga it works and so far in the Champions League this term it has caught out Porto and Brugge. Leicester on Tuesday are a different proposition entirely. Centre-back Mathias Zanka will be tasked with handling Jamie Vardy's whippet speed, with Eric Johansson (a modern-day Olaf Melburg and no doubt a Swedish lumberjack in another life) there to head away danger. Leicester should be too strong for Copenhagen, who play a far more patient, pragmatic game than Claudio Ranieri's hit and run stars. But there is belief that Copenhagen can get something from this clash. Solbakken had talked long about the need to get points away from home in the group stage and a draw would do the 11-time Danish champions nicely. Captain Delaney must win the battle of midfield superiority with Danny Drinkwater, while full-backs Ludwig Augustinsson and Peter Andersen may have to gamble on bombing forward and leave Riyad Mahrez free. Copenhagen will go for it at the King Power but gone are the days when Danish football is realistically going to challenge the established elite. UEFA and the big boys know that and have done something about it. Leicester are only now experiencing what it's like to be part of that upper class. It is a class that is strengthening its resolve, ensuring the gap between top and bottom remains. But the lower orders will not stay silent long.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 We really need to win the Champions League and upset UEFA.
MPH Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 I'd be surprised if they ended up in a breakaway league as that cant be as attractive a proposition for advertisers financially as the champions league surely and therefore much less money for them? Unless of course the revamped champions league is indicating that the champions of Denmark, Belgium and Holland will not get places in the champions league? Must of missed that if so...
Fox92 Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 Champions League is a load of shite. UEFA just want as much money as possible. If you win the league then you should automatically qualify for the group stages, regardless of how weak/strong UEFA perceive the league to be.
foxy boxing Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 sick of hearing about breakaway leagues, it's been talked about for years.i understand the bigger clubs wanting a much bigger slice of the action because they themselves generate huge amounts of cash but the smaller clubs need to know that there is still competition and are able to be competitive and give them hope of breaking into the rich league and it not become a closed shop for only the elite clubs
VLC86 Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 11 minutes ago, Fox92 said: Champions League is a load of shite. UEFA just want as much money as possible. If you win the league then you should automatically qualify for the group stages, regardless of how weak/strong UEFA perceive the league to be. So every European league winner goes into the group stages? would be a mirror of international football, no thanks.
Fox92 Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 25 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said: So every European league winner goes into the group stages? would be a mirror of international football, no thanks. Yeah. It's supposed to be for "Champions" isn't it.
GaelicFox Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 59 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said: We really need to win the Champions League and upset UEFA. You think they will allow that ? not a hope they will
VLC86 Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 38 minutes ago, Fox92 said: Yeah. It's supposed to be for "Champions" isn't it. I get that but what value would Real Madrid Vs the champions of the Faroe Islands add to anyone? Would be a great away though but that's ending in at least double figures.
Larry_LCFC Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 Champions League is just an image obsessed dictatorship designed to make the rich richer. Good experience to be in it, but I wont lose any sleep when we don't make it next year.
Captain... Posted 17 October 2016 Posted 17 October 2016 The Champions League isn't the problem it is the financial dominance of the premier league and the other big hitting European teams. Since the restrictions on foreign players were removed the richest clubs have just hoovered up the talent from the other leagues, teams like Ajax, Brondby, Malmo, PSV, Anderlecht could all hold their own in Europe because they had they had the pick of their respective country's talent, with the odd exceptional superstar moving abroad. Now even the average foreign players get to make big money moves to the premier league and championship and the second tier leagues in Europe are much poorer for it. The new changes to the CL format and the money is just going to make things worse, but you can't really blame the premium European competition for wanting to have the best teams and best players in it.
RonnieTodger Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 19 hours ago, Fox92 said: Champions League is a load of shite. UEFA just want as much money as possible. If you win the league then you should automatically qualify for the group stages, regardless of how weak/strong UEFA perceive the league to be. I agree that there's a lot of pure greed and the rule for 2018 is bollocks, but there's about 53 UEFA nations - they need to get rid of some of the shite ones. They actually changed the rules a few years ago by separating the teams being runners up/3rd etc and the league winners into different sections, so that more nations are represented. If Celtic can't get past the champions of Gibraltar, Kazakhstan and Israel then they probably shouldn't be in it anyway.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 19 hours ago, Fox92 said: Yeah. It's supposed to be for "Champions" isn't it. It's not feasible. 55 Member nations of UEFA now something like that? The Format is drawn out as it is never mind without adding another 23 teams Ironically your suggesting the "Champions League" reverts back to what basically was the old European Cup.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 19 hours ago, Costock_Fox said: I get that but what value would Real Madrid Vs the champions of the Faroe Islands add to anyone? Would be a great away though but that's ending in at least double figures. It's be so much worse than that. The likes of San Marino and Gibralter manage to blag enough players with Pro backgrounds through loop holes from Italy/GB to get their teams to at least keep most games well below double figures. There are teams who literally wouldn't look out of place in the Midland Alliance in the the CL first qualifying round, Teams The New Saints are capable of beating 5-1 on aggregate, how many do you think Barcelona are going to stick past them.
CosbehFox Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 It think the word 'stunning' as a description for a potential Atlantic League is exaggerated. The majority of Europe wouldn't be bothered sadly and I'd question what fans of say Celtic would think to having to do away trips to expensive Scandinavian cities. There's no doubt that the Champions League will head to system similar to Basketball's Euroleague involving licenses and the number of qualifying teams is low. Elements such as stadium taken more into account rather than results. Basketball teams in the Euroleague effectively have two teams - that what plays in Europe and that what plays domestically. This has completely alienated the average fan because if you use Greece has an example, the fans of Olympiakos are more bothered about being more successful than AEK and Panathinaikos, not about being better than Berlin or Milan. Hence it's just a competition completely about corporate interests. That's how the Champions League will be. I would suggest that every minor European champion gets a knockout game at the start of the season against the teams what finish 2nd, 3rd and 4th from the major leagues. It's played at the minor teams ground. If you win, you are into the Champions League - the major clubs think they get an easy ride but in a knockout game, there will always be shocks - the minor teams at least get a TV payment and a huge crowd. Alongside this, the teams won't do beat their major opponent go into a third European competition creating an European trophy what minor teams can win and all make money from. Whilst fans of Celtic don't want Malmo or the likes every week, if you put that in a semi-final context then you have something worth supporting. If you put a load of minor teams into a league, the regularity gets boring.
Fox92 Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 4 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said: It's not feasible. 55 Member nations of UEFA now something like that? The Format is drawn out as it is never mind without adding another 23 teams Ironically your suggesting the "Champions League" reverts back to what basically was the old European Cup. That's what I am suggesting. I know there would be too many teams if it's every country.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 1 minute ago, Fox92 said: That's what I am suggesting. I know there would be too many teams if it's every country. I can see the argument for, but I'd rather see Europe's best go at it in a competitive competition, myself. Given the way European football is setup, you'd turn a pretty special tournament talent wise into something most people would not want to watch.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 40 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said: It think the word 'stunning' as a description for a potential Atlantic League is exaggerated. The majority of Europe wouldn't be bothered sadly and I'd question what fans of say Celtic would think to having to do away trips to expensive Scandinavian cities. There's no doubt that the Champions League will head to system similar to Basketball's Euroleague involving licenses and the number of qualifying teams is low. Elements such as stadium taken more into account rather than results. Basketball teams in the Euroleague effectively have two teams - that what plays in Europe and that what plays domestically. This has completely alienated the average fan because if you use Greece has an example, the fans of Olympiakos are more bothered about being more successful than AEK and Panathinaikos, not about being better than Berlin or Milan. Hence it's just a competition completely about corporate interests. That's how the Champions League will be. I would suggest that every minor European champion gets a knockout game at the start of the season against the teams what finish 2nd, 3rd and 4th from the major leagues. It's played at the minor teams ground. If you win, you are into the Champions League - the major clubs think they get an easy ride but in a knockout game, there will always be shocks - the minor teams at least get a TV payment and a huge crowd. Alongside this, the teams won't do beat their major opponent go into a third European competition creating an European trophy what minor teams can win and all make money from. Whilst fans of Celtic don't want Malmo or the likes every week, if you put that in a semi-final context then you have something worth supporting. If you put a load of minor teams into a league, the regularity gets boring. Surely that's a horrible idea compared to the current setup. At the moment UEFA are making sure at least a lot of the teams competing are league winners, not just through automatic group stage qualification, but making sure at least 5 qualifiers make it though the "Champions route".....This how the likes of ludogarets, Warsaw and Celtic qualified..... If you stick them in with the likes of Porto and Man City surely even fewer will qualify.
CosbehFox Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 7 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: Surely that's a horrible idea compared to the current setup. At the moment UEFA are making sure at least a lot of the teams competing are league winners, not just through automatic group stage qualification, but making sure at least 5 qualifiers make it though the "Champions route".....This how the likes of ludogarets, Warsaw and Celtic qualified..... If you stick them in with the likes of Porto and Man City surely even fewer will qualify. No-one is quite sure how it's going to work from 2018 though hence my suggestion - my suggestion is with that in mind We know the following:- Top 4 of four strongest leagues automatically qualify - that's 16 Plus Europa League winners straight through - makes 17 They have confirmed that the Champions/League qualifying routes will remain. We don't know how many additional champions make to the group stages but if you use the current you'll have French champions and runners-up - 19 Portuguese champions and runners-up - 21 Russian champions - 22 Dutch champions - 23 (there were ten qualifying spots, so we've surpassed that) Ukrainian champions - 24 Belgian champions - 25 Swiss champions - 26 Turkish champions - 27 7 qualification places to be spread across the league and champion routes. So it's another reduction
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 Just now, Cardiff_Fox said: No-one is quite sure how it's going to work from 2018 though hence my suggestion - my suggestion is with that in mind We know the following:- Top 4 of four strongest leagues automatically qualify - that's 16 Plus Europa League winners straight through - makes 17 They have confirmed that the Champions/League qualifying routes will remain. We don't know how many additional champions make to the group stages but if you use the current you'll have French champions and runners-up - 19 Portuguese champions and runners-up - 21 Russian champions - 22 Dutch champions - 23 (there were ten qualifying spots, so we've surpassed that) Ukrainian champions - 24 Belgian champions - 25 Swiss champions - 26 Turkish champions - 27 7 qualification places to be spread across the league and champion routes. So it's another reduction Is that a change in rule or your understanding of the current rules, as that's very wrong if the latter.
CosbehFox Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 Just now, Manwell Pablo said: Is that a change in rule or your understanding of the current rules, as that's very wrong if the latter. It's been confirmed. http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2398899.html UEFA did it to appease the likes of the Italian clubs in particular (the current guy managing the competition is an ex AC Milan employee and David Gill is involved too - Man U link). This is what has made the 'Atlantic League' talks spark.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 October 2016 Posted 18 October 2016 1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said: It's been confirmed. http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2398899.html UEFA did it to appease the likes of the Italian clubs in particular (the current guy managing the competition is an ex AC Milan employee and David Gill is involved too - Man U link). This is what has made the 'Atlantic League' talks spark. Great. Games going down hill fast.
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