Thracian Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 The Chinese built a huge wall and it's not only celebrated as one of the wonders of the world it's become one of the focal points for Chinese tourism. Then of course we had Hadrian build our own wall to keep the Scots out and the way the Slippery Sturgeon's forever wanting her own way it's perhaps a pity it ever fell into disrepair! . Walls, railings, whatever, there's nothing new about erecting some form of protection for all that the determination of those who want to breech them illegally, inevitably makes no barrier impregnable. It'll be as much a symbol as anything. A symbol that says if you're not entitled to be here we don't want you. There'll be nothing to stop agreements being introduced to allow temporary (or permanent) access - via the opening of a gate. Seems to me that Trump's determined to control who is and isn't allowed access to the US. He doesn't want unregistered unknowns running around and losing themselves in the crowd and becoming a potential concern for all sorts of reasons that have been highlighted in abundance across The US and Europe these recent years. It really is nothing new. Lots of company's have security barriers and vetting personnel for exactly the same reason and none of their "walls" are foolproof either. They're just a deterent. A symbol of intent. The hypocrisy of reaction to Trump's wall is astounding. Strikes me he's taking responsibility. . It's a wall, or fence that will have gates. Like most every castle, fortress, or military base etc. that was ever built across the world since time immemorial. Just on a bigger scale and, presumably, reflecting the perceived problem and the amount of space to be notionally protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Looks like Steve Bell thinks any US-UK deals might be more favourable to the Americans. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jan/26/steve-bell-uk-us-theresa-may-donald-trump-cartoon This portrayal is wholly inaccurate as it's well known that the vicar's daughter would only contemplate missionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 11 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: A matter of taste. Steve Bell's style is too crude and unsubtle for some, but I don't mind a bit of crudity. I don't think he's suggesting that May is whoring herself out to Trump as a woman. I think he's suggesting that she's whoring our nation out politically. A matter of opinion, obviously If he's "vile", then he's vile to everyone, male or female, Tory, Lab or whatever. Here's one of Blair: and Corbyn: So he'd have made the same drawing if Cameron was still PM? Doubt that very much. But take a look at the state of those in the comments, practically ripping their collective cocks off at the thought of a Conservative woman being debased, raped and sodomised. No doubt all of those were fully behind the Women's march though. Perfectly illustrates the spectacular hypocrisy of the left. Just imagine their uproar if the Daily Mail published a drawing depicting the rape of Abbott or Chakrabarti by Farage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 I think yesterday was the day it dawned on me he is actually going to try and do some of the bat shit crazy stuff he mentioned in his campaign.....I sat there listening to him talk about erecting a wall and getting the Mexicans to pay for it thinking yeah ok, cause you will mate. But no, he is actually going to try and build a wall and get them to pay for it. Scenes. All this in the same day he backs waterboarding it's gonna be an interesting few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 10 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said: So he'd have made the same drawing if Cameron was still PM? Doubt that very much. But take a look at the state of those in the comments, practically ripping their collective cocks off at the thought of a Conservative woman being debased, raped and sodomised. No doubt all of those were fully behind the Women's march though. Perfectly illustrates the spectacular hypocrisy of the left. Just imagine their uproar if the Daily Mail published a drawing depicting the rape of Abbott or Chakrabarti by Farage. I think he would have drawn Cameron in the same way. He used to habitually draw him with a condom over his head - and Osborne in bondage gear. Not subtle but humour is a matter of taste. As I've said, I don't think Bell's cartoon is anti-women, it's anti-May rushing off to Washington desperate to please Trump and to grovel for a deal. Though it's a matter of opinion whether you think that's what she's doing (I'd be on the fence about that, myself). I'll take your word for it that there are some vile comments on the web page....there usually are, on all such websites, whether it's the Guardian or the Mail. If you'd protest as strongly about the Mail depicting Abbott crudely to make a political point, then fair play to you. I don't mind a bit of crudity, but appreciate that some people do. If you wouldn't be as bothered by that, then you're the one guilty of hypocrisy - and fake outrage, a quality more usually associated with the Left than the Right (assuming that's where you stand; sorry if I've got that wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 14 hours ago, Parafox said: The media have picked up on Trump's view on torture, particularly waterboarding. He was asked if he thought torture worked. He replied that he believed absolutely it did. This response has now been mutated into Trump wants to torture people. This is what happens when people lose their minds over something, the truth vanishes like a fart in the wind and because the consensus is anti whoever no one is really bothered about it, Rincewind even made a post on here the other day claiming Donald Trump has said he was going to torture immigrants. It's madness but it's a reflection of the World now. 1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said: Vile. Although it's what we've come to expect from the Guardian. But it's interesting. What this is suggesting is that the PM, being a woman, is naturally inclined to whore herself out in order to get what she wants. I for one am looking forward to those thousands of 'feminists' getting back on the streets to protest the disgusting depiction of women in the left-wing Daily Mail. Wait...silence? Thought as much. You don't have to go back very far to realise that misogyny is seen as acceptable from certain sections of society when the target is a Tory, just look at some of the signs flown at Thatcher's funeral (classy stuff) and you can imagine some of those would have been the same people now moaning about Trump and joining the Vagina Warriors on whatever march they were on. Although let's not get our knickers in a twist over a cartoon, otherwise we become just like those we moan about. I find it more annoying they have decided to form their opinion of May already before even giving her a chance, I don't think that's fair at all. 34 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: But no, he is actually going to try and build a wall and get them to pay for it. Scenes. All this in the same day he backs waterboarding it's gonna be an interesting few years. If he wants the Mexicans to pay for it he can force them to, whether they like it or not the USA can send Mexico into a depression if they want to through tariffs. Personally I think it's a disaster because doing that means reducing GDP, costing his own treasury money and making things more expensive for people on both sides of the border, but he might just be prepared to let that happen to force them into "paying for the wall". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 31 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I think he would have drawn Cameron in the same way. He used to habitually draw him with a condom over his head - and Osborne in bondage gear. Not subtle but humour is a matter of taste. As I've said, I don't think Bell's cartoon is anti-women, it's anti-May rushing off to Washington desperate to please Trump and to grovel for a deal. Though it's a matter of opinion whether you think that's what she's doing (I'd be on the fence about that, myself). I'll take your word for it that there are some vile comments on the web page....there usually are, on all such websites, whether it's the Guardian or the Mail. If you'd protest as strongly about the Mail depicting Abbott crudely to make a political point, then fair play to you. I don't mind a bit of crudity, but appreciate that some people do. If you wouldn't be as bothered by that, then you're the one guilty of hypocrisy - and fake outrage, a quality more usually associated with the Left than the Right (assuming that's where you stand; sorry if I've got that wrong). I find all 'satirical' depictions of rape and sexual violence absolutely deplorable. In truth I chuckled at the fact that in a week where the Guardian tried it's absolute hardest to be the voice of equality and women's rights to be in control of their own sexuality, the rag then goes and delightfully publishes a depiction of a Conservative woman powerlessly offering herself to a supposed male superior to which it's readership laps up...how very progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 I think some people are reading a little too much into a satirical cartoon. Dare I mention 'safe spaces'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 4 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said: I find all 'satirical' depictions of rape and sexual violence absolutely deplorable. In truth I chuckled at the fact that in a week where the Guardian tried it's absolute hardest to be the voice of equality and women's rights to be in control of their own sexuality, the rag then goes and delightfully publishes a depiction of a Conservative woman powerlessly offering herself to a supposed male superior to which it's readership laps up...how very progressive. Does that cartoon depict rape or sexual violence? I can't see how. To me, it depicts May voluntarily whoring this nation out to the USA. It might be a crude cartoon - and it might be unfair to May, seeing as all she's done so far is quite reasonably arrange to meet Trump (albeit with almost indecent haste that makes her look a bit desperate in the context of Brexit). To be fair to her, she has said that she'll disagree with him on certain issues (e.g. torture). The time to really have a go at her will be if she signs away a lot of our rights and protections in order to get a trade deal with Trump - which is probably what he will want. I'm out of discussion about that cartoon now. It's turning into a tedious circular debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 22 minutes ago, MattP said: This is what happens when people lose their minds over something, the truth vanishes like a fart in the wind and because the consensus is anti whoever no one is really bothered about it, Rincewind even made a post on here the other day claiming Donald Trump has said he was going to torture immigrants. It's madness but it's a reflection of the World now. You don't have to go back very far to realise that misogyny is seen as acceptable from certain sections of society when the target is a Tory, just look at some of the signs flown at Thatcher's funeral (classy stuff) and you can imagine some of those would have been the same people now moaning about Trump and joining the Vagina Warriors on whatever march they were on. Although let's not get our knickers in a twist over a cartoon, otherwise we become just like those we moan about. I find it more annoying they have decided to form their opinion of May already before even giving her a chance, I don't think that's fair at all. If he wants the Mexicans to pay for it he can force them to, whether they like it or not the USA can send Mexico into a depression if they want to through tariffs. Personally I think it's a disaster because doing that means reducing GDP, costing his own treasury money and making things more expensive for people on both sides of the border, but he might just be prepared to let that happen to force them into "paying for the wall". Oh yeah, I'm aware which is what makes it even funnier really. Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 Regarding Mays visit to the US and that cartoon, I agree with Alf (surprise!) on the idea it's meant to portray, but I can see why others would interpret differently. However...while having a cartoon depicting a woman in this way in a newspaper that supposes to champion feminism and women's rights may be hypocritical, given the events of the past social conservatives criticising another's depiction of a woman and their stance on women's rights is equally if not even more so. I'm not sure how much of a leg they have to stand in in that regard. After all, it isn't Grauniad writers and readers in government actually inhibiting women's rights around the world (and threatening to in the US), is it? That all being said, we should wait to see what kind of deal May manages to get before passing judgement. I'm not overly optimistic, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 It's a shit cartoon. Most cartoons in newspapers are shit, political or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 34 minutes ago, Finnegan said: It's a shit cartoon. Most cartoons in newspapers are shit, political or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: It's funny because the Beano would never publish a picture of Allah or Mohamed. The hilarity, I'm in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 Just now, Finnegan said: It's funny because the Beano would never publish a picture of Allah. The hilarity, I'm in tears. It's the fact that Charlie Hebdo had a rise in sales after it had been attacked and staff murdered and now the editor wants the artists to post something similar. All humour is subjective, but it made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 15 minutes ago, Webbo said: It's the fact that Charlie Hebdo had a rise in sales after it had been attacked and staff murdered and now the editor wants the artists to post something similar. All humour is subjective, but it made me laugh. Yeah I got the joke, Webbo. It's still a shit cartoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 57 minutes ago, Finnegan said: It's a shit cartoon. Most cartoons in newspapers are shit, political or otherwise. Disagree with this, I love the political cartoons in the papers. Matt from the Telegraph and Peter Brooks in The Times are often brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 58 minutes ago, Finnegan said: It's a shit cartoon. Most cartoons in newspapers are shit, political or otherwise. Even Japanese cartoons? Are you part of a nipponophile liberal elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 21 minutes ago, Finnegan said: It's funny because the Beano would never publish a picture of Allah or Mohamed. It isn't. The joke is breaking the news to the artists of what they have to do therefore putting them in danger. It is edgy and pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Even Japanese cartoons? Are you part of a nipponophile liberal elite? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 3 minutes ago, MattP said: It is edgy and pretty funny. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 1 minute ago, Finnegan said: Huh? I thought you liked Japanese cartoons. Sorry if I misremembered. I'm getting on a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I thought you liked Japanese cartoons. Sorry if I misremembered. I'm getting on a bit. no not really. I like Japan, I've got friends out there and I've visited a few times. The anime doesn't interest me very much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 Cosplay should, especially the girl on youtube with the big jugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 January 2017 Share Posted 27 January 2017 34 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Yeah I got the joke, Webbo. It's still a shit cartoon. Misery guts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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