Trump Triumphs

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

Speaking of hypocritical 'celebrities', it seems as though Morgan is not the only one to flatly refuse to be on television with other personnel http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/piers-morgan-bans-hugh-grant-cnn-talk-show-calls-actor-tedious-man-article-1.147400. 

 

Completely agree about Di Caprio however, he has done so incredible work for the environment but then does countless other things to contradict it. Same goes for Beyonce with feminism. 

Surely anybody would want to go on GMB just so they could ask Piers live on TV about hacking Nigel Havers' phone as his wife was dying of cancer

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Surely anybody would want to go on GMB just so they could ask Piers live on TV about hacking Nigel Havers' phone as his wife was dying of cancer

I would hope any right thinking male would go on to try and catch a Susanna Reid upskirt.

 

Even if you risk a bollocking from Piers Morgan. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

42 minutes ago, MattP said:

I would hope any right thinking male would go on to try and catch a Susanna Reid upskirt.

 

Even if you risk a bollocking from Piers Morgan. 

Is she still single and does Sharia Law allow multiple wives? Asking for a friend

[leicsmac]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-administration-orders-media-1485281190-htmlstory.html

 

Stop it from doing its job. First step to gutting it, perhaps?

 

Again, it was reasonably obvious this was the way things would go - but the way this particular political decision plays out won't affect just a few demographics. It'll affect everyone.

[Merging Cultures]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-administration-orders-media-1485281190-htmlstory.html

 

Stop it from doing its job. First step to gutting it, perhaps?

 

Again, it was reasonably obvious this was the way things would go - but the way this particular political decision plays out won't affect just a few demographics. It'll affect everyone.

Lying to reporters -> Lying to supporters -> Saying reporters are lying -> Saying fact-checkers are lying -> Their lies are "alternative facts" -> Censoring real facts

[Finnegan]

He really is serious about wanting this ****ing wall then, huh?

 

Possibly the stupidest idea in the history of really stupid ideas.

[Alf Bentley]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

He really is serious about wanting this ****ing wall then, huh?

 

Possibly the stupidest idea in the history of really stupid ideas.

 

In terms of race relations and international relations, it might be stupid. In terms of stemming illegal immigration, it might be a futile, ineffective gesture.

 

But in terms of giving his support base the (false) idea that he's doing something about "the immigrant problem", it's a good idea. We're in an era when PR and superficial impressions matter more than reality.

His supporters will see TV news clips or online photos showing him announcing the wall, then showing the wall being built. They'll be pleased. How many people will look into whether it is beneficial in any real sense?

 

As I understand it, the "battleground states" that decide US presidential elections don't even have many Mexican immigrants, do they? (Clarification from US experts welcomed)

So, voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin or wherever probably won't have a clue whether Mexican immigration into California, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado or Texas has risen or fallen.

 

It's a bit like the way some very white parts of England are hostile to immigration because their living standards are crap and lives feel insecure.

Dissatisfaction & insecurity boosts kneejerk thinking - and post-reality politics. A good PR move by Trump, sadly!

[Finnegan]

He doesn't need good PR with the people that want the wall built, Alf. They already think he's the Messiah. What he needs is to convince everyone else he's not ACTUALLY a ****ing maniac and there's really a savvy brain beneath that toupe.

 

Not convinced his wall is the best start.

 

The cost and logistics alone has got to be eyewatering.

[lgfualol]

I like how he has restricted immigration from 7 muslim countries - except Saudi Arabia, the main exporters of Wahhabism and a place where 15 of the 19 9/11 attackers were from. I wonder why that i$?  

[Alf Bentley]

40 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

He doesn't need good PR with the people that want the wall built, Alf. They already think he's the Messiah. What he needs is to convince everyone else he's not ACTUALLY a ****ing maniac and there's really a savvy brain beneath that toupe.

 

Not convinced his wall is the best start.

 

The cost and logistics alone has got to be eyewatering.

 

Surely he needs to build the wall to keep the loyalty of those who supported him because of ideas like that? His support base could ebb away in disillusionment if he doesn't keep his promise and build the wall.

Indeed, it could buy him more time. If people's lives don't quickly improve in other ways, those who supported him will still be able to think: "he's trying to sort it out, he's building the wall and doing other stuff". 

 

The wall is a very ugly idea that I don't support. I'm sure it'll be costly but the US has a massive budget and he's already said that it won't stretch the full length of the border. Also, how many people keep a detailed eye on the public finances? I'd be more concerned about the impact of his promise to remove millions of illegal immigrants. If he's serious about that and goes about it in a confrontational manner (widespread immigration raids snatching people from homes and workplaces), I assume that could quickly cause major social conflict and violence in the streets. Then there's little issues like trade protectionism, foreign policy and control of nukes...

 

Does he need to convince everyone else he's not a maniac? He's been elected as top man in the world's most powerful country, and those who elected him will presumably support the implementation of the policies he promised - unless and until they cause major problems. Some of his policies might even be popular beyond his support base: he's promised major public spending on infrastructure, which might increase the US deficit - but might create a lot of jobs and win a lot of support.

 

I suppose there's a limit to how much he can alienate major foreign governments or Republicans in Congress without suffering consequences. But the fact that his opponents think he's a maniac won't bother him, I'm sure. He'll probably love it. If anything, it is savvy of him to do all the stuff that he promised and that they hate - because his support base will love him for "tackling immigration", "standing up to foreign powers", "blasting ISIS", "standing up for US jobs and trade", "taking on the liberal elite" etc.

[davieG]

He doesn't even need to build it just to look like he's serious about it, politics is full of promises that were never intended to be fulfilled and a little bit of well publicised lip service will go a long way you just need to win the headline war.

 

Mind you he's mad enough to do it anyway and there's some nice contracts to be given out.

 

On another note 

 

 

[Finnaldo]

So the Mexicans in likelihood are never gonna pay for this monstrosity in a thousand years. How is Trump gonna spin it from here? It was all well and good when the bad press and contradictions of his campaigns were just soundbites his supporters could ignore, but when the people haven't seen of Pennsylvania haven't seen much movement on the job front but can start to feel it on their tax bills, how's he gonna confront it?

 

As the months go by and he presumably doesn't find a miracle cure for the economy in rust belt and Pennsylvania, and the wall has a couple setbacks or logistical issues as with any project of this scale, which will be inflated by the media as they do, how's it gonna cope when people start to get a bit restless with it all?

 

Surely the best path for him at this stage is to compromise with Mexico. They pay installments towards it, in return illegals already here are granted some form of impunity under the guise Trump will let in NO MORE (in the most mastered of Twitter proclamations) That way he kills two birds with one stone, the wall is being in some form paid towards by Mexico which fulfills another campaign promise, and the stings and round-ups that would be a logistical and budget-eating nightmare are sidestepped. Surely that's the best he can be gunning for?

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

So the Mexicans in likelihood are never gonna pay for this monstrosity in a thousand years.

Trump will just say the payments have been made via the external tariffs he puts on Mexico, since you'll never be able to calcluate long term how much this will raise it will be impossible to prove him wrong.

 

 

I was lying in bed last night unable to sleep and was going back through history in my head to find someone daft to blame for Trump (I do these weird things and I've not fact checked any of it if anybody wants to point out a mistake ).

 

Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college, the reason we have an electoral college is because of the vast difference between states in America, the reason there are so many different states in America was because it expanded over time, the vast majority of the states that voted for Trump are across the middle of the country, the vast majority of those states came about because Thomas Jefferson signed the Louisiana purchase, that was given away by Napolean because he needed to fund his wars in Europe after it was originally given back by Spain at the treaty of San Idefonso. Hernan Cortez was the explorer who led the Spanish across the Atalantic to defeat the Aztecs and create "New Spain".

 

So a Spanish explorer who invaded Mexico is the man responsible for Donald Trump being elected, a great irony in that.

[Innovindil]

Iirc trump's plan wasn't to get Mexico to pay for it directly but to impose fairly large tariffs on everything they sell to America, which would also help increase the attractiveness of moving businesses into the US to create more jobs. 

 

Whether it's at all feasible I have no Idea, but I doubt the wall is in any way economically viable to begin with. 

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

I was lying in bed last night unable to sleep and was going back through history in my head to find someone daft to blame for Trump (I do these weird things and I've not fact checked any of it if anybody wants to point out a mistake ).

 

Donald Trump was elected by the electoral college, the reason we have an electoral college is because of the vast difference between states in America, the reason there are so many different states in America was because it expanded over time, the vast majority of the states that voted for Trump are across the middle of the country, the vast majority of those states came about because Thomas Jefferson signed the Louisiana purchase, that was given away by Napolean because he needed to fund his wars in Europe after it was originally given back by Spain at the treaty of San Idefonso. Hernan Cortez was the explorer who led the Spanish across the Atalantic to defeat the Aztecs and create "New Spain".

 

So a Spanish explorer who invaded Mexico is the man responsible for Donald Trump being elected, a great irony in that.

Surely it's easier just to crack one off.

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

So the Mexicans in likelihood are never gonna pay for this monstrosity in a thousand years. How is Trump gonna spin it from here?

 

He doesn't need to spin it at all, just lie.

 

One tweet saying 'Met with President of Mexico last night. Gave me cheque for full cost of wall plus some free barbed wire for top. BIG MONEYS FOR AMERICA!' and then its as good as fact to a frightening proportion of the US population, who then wouldn't pay a jot of attention to any response from the Mexican government saying that in fact it isn't true.

[Guest MattP]

Whether you like him or not he's a bloke who gets things done isn't he? Weird in the modern World to see a politician actually being elected and then starting to carry out what he said he would do, if I was Hillary I wouldn't be counting on spending last days in a New Jersey holiday home yet.

 

He's kept more of his election promises in the first few days than Obama kept in eight years.

[Merging Cultures]

25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Whether you like him or not he's a bloke who gets things done isn't he? Weird in the modern World to see a politician actually being elected and then starting to carry out what he said he would do, if I was Hillary I wouldn't be counting on spending last days in a New Jersey holiday home yet.

 

He's kept more of his election promises in the first few days than Obama kept in eight years.

It's all through Executive Orders so far though. And the Repubs obviously criticised Obama for using them (even though he used less than previous Presidents). The rubber will hit the road when he starts to have to use Congress to do anything. Obama had Congress for two years at the beginning of his term, and it was considered the most productive congress of all time. The 2011 and 2013 Congress switched to Repub majority in the House and slim Dem majority in the Senate. This obviously slowed the number of acts passed. The 2015 became Repub majority in House and Senate, and it became harder to pass anything.

 

Here is a list of Obama's key campaign promises and whether they were kept or not: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jan/05/tracking-obamas-top-25-campaign-promises/

 

Could he have done more? As I've said in previous posts, I think he could have done more to bring Republicans along with him, but there has been increasing partisanship as the Republicans shifted right to gain control of their base from upstarts like the 'Tea Party'. If he had done more Executive Orders I am sure there would have been an even bigger uproar.

 

Some of the promises Trump has already reneged on:

- He hasn't drained the swamp, quite the opposite, he said it is a 'hokey' line that his team told him to say, and it gained traction so he used it, but didn't mean it.

- He wont release his tax returns, despite saying many times he was willing and happy to do so

- He won't lock Hilary up, he said it was also a phrase used in campaigning

- After talking to Mattis, he has realised Torture isn't as effective as he thought and so he won't be allowing it (and worse...) 

[Detroit Blues]

Good things Trump's done since taking office:

Pulling out of TPP

 

Bad things he's done since taking office:

Keystone Pipeline deal.

Supporting the repeal of obamacare without seeing a plan from republicans to replace it.

Supporting the waste of taxpayer funds on a massive wall between the US and Mexico.

Taking away regulations the environment.

Removing a planned cut on mortgage insurance. 

Appointing Steve Mnuchin as Secretary of the Treasury. A man who utilized tax havens in his time as a hedge fund manager at goldman sachs, and left off 100 million dollars worth personal assets on his ethics disclosure.

Appointing Betsy Devos as Secretary of Education. A woman who has no background in public school administration or teaching. 

Appointing Scott Pruitt, a climate change denier, as head of the EPA. A man who had previously said only a few years ago that the EPA should be dismantled. He also said he was unsure of the science behind lead poisoning. This after Trump promised to address the lead poisoning crisis in Flint, Michigan during a town hall debate with Hillary Clinton. 

Appointing Ajit Pai, a net nuetrality opponent, as head of the FCC. 

Appointing Rex Tillerson, a man with dubious ties to russia, as Secretary of State. 

Sending Scott Spicer, as press secretary, to lie directly to American public about the size of the inaguration crowd being "the largest ever" in his first press conference, 

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

Good things Trump's done since taking office:

Pulling out of TPP

 

Bad things he's done since taking office:

Keystone Pipeline deal.

Supporting the repeal of obamacare without seeing a plan from republicans to replace it.

Supporting the waste of taxpayer funds on a massive wall between the US and Mexico.

Taking away regulations regarding the environment.

Removing a planned cut on mortgage insurance. 

Appointing Steve Mnuchin as Secretary of the Treasury. A man who utilized tax havens in his time as a hedge fund manager at goldman sachs, and left off 100 million dollars worth personal assets on his ethics disclosure.

Appointing Betsy Devos as Secretary of Education. A woman who has no background in public school administration or teaching. 

Appointing Scott Pruitt, a climate change denier, as head of the EPA. A man who had previously said only a few years ago that the EPA should be dismantled. He also said he was unsure of the science behind lead poisoning. This after Trump promised to address the lead poisoning crisis in Flint, Michigan during a town hall debate with Hillary Clinton. 

Appointing Ajit Pai, a net nuetrality opponent, as head of the FCC. 

Appointing Rex Tillerson, a man with dubious ties to russia, as Secretary of State. 

Sending Scott Spicer, as press secretary, to lie directly to American public about the size of the inaguration crowd being "the largest ever" in his first press conference, 

 

This, especially the bolded two.

 

You can also add throttling the EPA by shutting down their official lines of communication with the public. I mean, we can't have those scientists sharing their findings that might, just might contradict him, can we?

 

Yeah, apparently he (and more importantly those behind him) are getting stuff done. Given what HAS been done, however, why the fvck is this considered to be a good thing?

[Merging Cultures]

2 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

Good things Trump's done since taking office:

Pulling out of TPP

 

Bad things he's done since taking office:

Keystone Pipeline deal.

Supporting the repeal of obamacare without seeing a plan from republicans to replace it.

Supporting the waste of taxpayer funds on a massive wall between the US and Mexico.

Taking away regulations the environment.

Removing a planned cut on mortgage insurance. 

Appointing Steve Mnuchin as Secretary of the Treasury. A man who utilized tax havens in his time as a hedge fund manager at goldman sachs, and left off 100 million dollars worth personal assets on his ethics disclosure.

Appointing Betsy Devos as Secretary of Education. A woman who has no background in public school administration or teaching. 

Appointing Scott Pruitt, a climate change denier, as head of the EPA. A man who had previously said only a few years ago that the EPA should be dismantled. He also said he was unsure of the science behind lead poisoning. This after Trump promised to address the lead poisoning crisis in Flint, Michigan during a town hall debate with Hillary Clinton. 

Appointing Ajit Pai, a net nuetrality opponent, as head of the FCC. 

Appointing Rex Tillerson, a man with dubious ties to russia, as Secretary of State. 

Sending Scott Spicer, as press secretary, to lie directly to American public about the size of the inaguration crowd being "the largest ever" in his first press conference, 

 

To be fair on the 'appointments' not all have been confirmed yet (Tillerson is to be recommended to Senate to be confirmed). DeVos' confirmation vote is being delayed, and she is likely to be the sacrificial lamb to get Mnuchin and Tillerson confirmed, to show that Trump is making concessions to unify Congress. Ajit Pai is very worrying though. The US ISPs are already a mess with very little competition, so then adding on top of that an ISPs ability to throttle speeds (or block) for websites they don't like is concerning.

[Merging Cultures]

One thing I don't get at all is why are they letting him still use Twitter?!

[Guest MattP]

Whatever you think of Ted Cruz, he's clearly a funny bloke.

 

[Detroit Blues]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

Whatever you think of Ted Cruz, he's clearly a funny bloke.

 

 

I didn't realize initially that the 2nd picture wasn't Ted Cruz. Hilarious though. Clearly Deadspin has no sense of humor. 

[leicsmac]

Yeah, kudos to the guy. Dealt with the abuse much better than the guy who beat him to the White House does.

 

Just a shame about the other stuff he believes, really.