Realistic Perspective

[adejo92]

I would like to begin this thread / post by admitting that i am as guilty as most for negativity within this forum. Tonight, i have taken the time to sit down and look at our position as opposed to leaving smart comments about the teams under performance.

 

2015 / 16 Season :

Without doubt one of the best sporting stories of all time and an amazing achievement for Leicester City football club. However, we as fans can not be fooled that we are suddenly a 'big boy'. The brutal truth is, all the stars aligned throughout that season. Average players pulled together with spirit, we were lucky with injuries and not one of the 'big boys' performed to expectation.

 

Leicester won the league with 81 points. 2014/15 season Chelsea won it with 87, 2013/14 Man City won it with 86, 2012/13 Man Utd won it with 89 and finally in 2011/12 Man Cit won it with 89 points. I am not trying to take anything away from the great achievement but realistically looking we would not be champions if any of the 'big boys' performed.

 

Just to put some perspective on the fact that we are not a title challenging team.

 

Results :

Although there have been some bad results there have also been some good results whereby we have scored a number of goals. Yes we have conceeded too many goals against the 'big boys' but i don't think thats such a problem if you manage to pick up results against other teams. Leicester need to concentrate on beating the teams around them and although Middlesbrough and Sunderland were poor results i would happily take a heavy loss against Man City and 3 points at Bournemouth.

 

Current Position :

With 14 games played we are currently sat 16th with 13 points.

 

2015/16 - Bournemouth & Sunderland had less points and survived and Chelsea were only on 15 points.

2014/15 - Burnley, WBA & Palace had less points and survived. We were only on 10 points.

2013/14 - Sunderland, Palace & W'Ham had less points and survived.

 

 

The point i am trying to make is that we are not a top team and our league position is probably realistic given the quality of our squad. We have invested in luxurys (Slimani) without first having a core (CM) for example.

 

Plenty of the season left to turn this around and i think we should show CR faith.

[HankMarvin]

29 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I would like to begin this thread / post by admitting that i am as guilty as most for negativity within this forum. Tonight, i have taken the time to sit down and look at our position as opposed to leaving smart comments about the teams under performance.

 

2015 / 16 Season :

Without doubt one of the best sporting stories of all time and an amazing achievement for Leicester City football club. However, we as fans can not be fooled that we are suddenly a 'big boy'. The brutal truth is, all the stars aligned throughout that season. Average players pulled together with spirit, we were lucky with injuries and not one of the 'big boys' performed to expectation.

 

Leicester won the league with 81 points. 2014/15 season Chelsea won it with 87, 2013/14 Man City won it with 86, 2012/13 Man Utd won it with 89 and finally in 2011/12 Man Cit won it with 89 points. I am not trying to take anything away from the great achievement but realistically looking we would not be champions if any of the 'big boys' performed.

 

Just to put some perspective on the fact that we are not a title challenging team.

 

Results :

Although there have been some bad results there have also been some good results whereby we have scored a number of goals. Yes we have conceeded too many goals against the 'big boys' but i don't think thats such a problem if you manage to pick up results against other teams. Leicester need to concentrate on beating the teams around them and although Middlesbrough and Sunderland were poor results i would happily take a heavy loss against Man City and 3 points at Bournemouth.

 

Current Position :

With 14 games played we are currently sat 16th with 13 points.

 

2015/16 - Bournemouth & Sunderland had less points and survived and Chelsea were only on 15 points.

2014/15 - Burnley, WBA & Palace had less points and survived. We were only on 10 points.

2013/14 - Sunderland, Palace & W'Ham had less points and survived.

 

 

The point i am trying to make is that we are not a top team and our league position is probably realistic given the quality of our squad. We have invested in luxurys (Slimani) without first having a core (CM) for example.

 

Plenty of the season left to turn this around and i think we should show CR faith.

 

Worst post of the year.

81 points last year on course for about a point a game, is that fall from grace really acceptable with £70m of investment

 

A team that won the league last year by about 10 points and spent 70 million should not be a poor as we are dont let the lofty position of 16th fool you.

worst away record and goals conceded, and home form on the turn.

 

Not sure whilst your comparing the teams that survived and that everyone should be content on survival

[adejo92]

7 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

 

Worst post of the year.

81 points last year on course for about a point a game, is that fall from grace really acceptable with £70m of investment

 

A team that won the league last year by about 10 points and spent 70 million should not be a poor as we are dont let the lofty position of 16th fool you.

worst away record and goals conceded, and home form on the turn.

 

Not sure whilst your comparing the teams that survived and that everyone should be content on survival

I suppose different people have different expectations. Mine are realistic, if you think we are a title challenging team then you are deluded.

 

As for 70 mil, your not in football manager now. Money is irrelevent sometimes.

 

Thanks for your opinion but if you could kindly place it back up your bottom.

[LJS]

We've spent **** all. About £20m net. We lost our best player. We have spent less than at least 6 other teams. 6 other teams who already had squads, player for player, better than ours. Last season was a freak. A beautiful freak.

 

If anybody really thought last season was an opportunity to "push on" and become a big club then you're mental. Why should it have been any different to Derby and Forest in the 1970s, Blackburn in the 1990s? It wasn't. It was an abberation. Enjoy it for what it was.

 

Our natural position is top end second tier, bottom end top flight. We are at the upper end of that right now. These are the good times. Last season has scrambled your brains. You'd think we are in some kind of crisis. You'll long for these days next time we are struggling for a point at home to Barnsley on a cold Tuesday night in November.

[NewEnglandFox]

43 minutes ago, LJS said:

If anybody really thought last season was an opportunity to "push on" and become a big club then you're mental.

[NewEnglandFox]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

Results :

 

Although there have been some bad results there have also been some good results whereby we have scored a number of goals. Yes we have conceeded too many goals against the 'big boys' but i don't think thats such a problem if you manage to pick up results against other teams. Leicester need to concentrate on beating the teams around them and although Middlesbrough and Sunderland were poor results i would happily take a heavy loss against Man City and 3 points at Bournemouth.

[adejo92]

7 minutes ago, NewEnglandFox said:

^ Was in September and at the time i believed that. Things have become worse and therefore my expectations have...well...become more realistic.

 

Im kind of worried what you will post next? maybe a picture of my house with a certain body part grasped tightly within your palm?

[LJS]

 

24 minutes ago, NewEnglandFox said:

 

Yep, got carried away as many others did. Mind you, "on Ranieri's record alone" is a decent enough caveat. His career record is very good indeed. 

 

If anything I underestimated the mental impact of having won the thing in the first place, the impact of the loss of Kante, and impact the additional European games would have on the squad. It was a prediction, and it was wrong.

 

Nothing in that post suggests that I thought that we could push on and become a "big club". I never believed that and the quoted post doesn't even come close to suggesting as such. It says nothing more than that I thought we'd have a good season. It certainly doesn't invalidate anything I've posted today.

 

So what's your point?

[Manwell Pablo]

Haha New England fox for president 

[LJS]

7 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Haha New England fox for president 

 He/she hasn't made a point.

[NewEnglandFox]

So both of you are admitting that your expectations for the season have massively dropped. That's perspective. We're in 16th and the average hope on this site was this team would challenge for 7th. That's perspective. Perspective is not trying to justify that we're in a relegation battle when just a few months ago most of us had posts hoping we'd be nowhere near here.

[LJS]

12 minutes ago, NewEnglandFox said:

So both of you are admitting that your expectations for the season have massively dropped. That's perspective. We're in 16th and the average hope on this site was this team would challenge for 7th. That's perspective. Perspective is not trying to justify that we're in a relegation battle when just a few months ago most of us had posts hoping we'd be nowhere near here.

My post was made on 10th July. At that point we hadn't even lost Kante. It wasn't unreasonable to make a prediction on the basis that our team had been kept together combined with the excellent record of our manager. At that time our title winning team was intact and nobody could reasonably have foreseen the impact of additional games on a squd to which it was widely expected we would add to, particularly across our weakest areas. Give that the transfer window had only been open for ten days and I still predicted that we'd be overhauled by five or our "rivals" I don't see an awful lot to feel foolish about in that early summer prediction.

 

Now, in mid-season, I've seen the impact on our players of having won the trophy. I've seen the impact of additional games on ageing players. I've seen the impact of the loss of Kante. A rational person makes use of the best available evidence and changes their mind in accordance with it. That's what I have done, and rightly so. It isn't even inconsistent (in approach) with the basis for my early summer prediction. I just had less evidence at the time. If anything my most recent stance is more imbued with perspective with that early summer prediction; back then I was still in the midst of title winning euphoria.

 

So, it would seem that your only point is that it seems likely that I predicted our final position incorrectly. I've done so for the last 24 consecutive seasons. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

A bit more on "perspective". I'd still have considered 6th. Brilliant season. Well above our historical average. "Perspective" is where I am now; not feelimg agggrieved that we sit at the higher end of our historical average. I'm not the once getting upset at a few poor performances in the top flight.

 

It was a nice try. Fair enough for putting a little effort in. But at least come up with a proper argument as to why I might be incorrect. You haven't, and I'm not.

[Crinklyfox]

6 hours ago, LJS said:

Our natural position is top end second tier, bottom end top flight. We are at the upper end of that right now. 

The history of the club in my lifetime backs this up, however it doesn't have to stay that way and the owners, and hopefully a lot of the supporters, want to move on from that.

 

The football league is littered with 'big clubs' whose glory days have passed; similarly, there are 'big clubs' today that were not always so.  It may be that despite all efforts City never become a 'big club', but we should not consider ourselves bound by our history.  No-one achieves greatness by believing that they cannot do so.

 

Years ago I responded to a post which claimed that we would be happier in the Championship with a similar message.  I'm glad that the club didn't accept mediocrity then and I don't believe they will do so now.  For me it is still onwards and upwards.

[Guest Col city fan]

5 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 

Yep, got carried away as many others did. Mind you, "on Ranieri's record alone" is a decent enough caveat. His career record is very good indeed. 

 

If anything I underestimated the mental impact of having won the thing in the first place, the impact of the loss of Kante, and impact the additional European games would have on the squad. It was a prediction, and it was wrong.

 

Nothing in that post suggests that I thought that we could push on and become a "big club". I never believed that and the quoted post doesn't even come close to suggesting as such. It says nothing more than that I thought we'd have a good season. It certainly doesn't invalidate anything I've posted today.

 

So what's your point?

How the Hell can you post that most of our players were in the form of their lives last season, effectively punching above their weight, and that our natural position is top end Championship, and in the same breath say this season we'd finish top 6!

 

I told you you were spouting nonsense!

 

[Barky]

I think some people need to remember last season was an anomaly. It's like earning £20k per year for your whole life and then one year winning the lottery. You'd be foolish to then raise your expectations so much that you're then disappointed if you don't win the lottery again the next year. The important thing is that we've made progress over a longer time period, and we have. We're still in one of the best positions we've been in during the modern football era. Only last season and the MON season's top it.

[Guest]

We have to believe in the team. we have to believe we will fight for our place in the premier league. If we reside to the fact that we will go out this weekend, lose and then next weekend and lose and eventually end up being in the championship then you have to ask yourself is there really any point in watching, attending or supporting anymore.

 

Whatever is going at the club is not going to get any better by booing etc....I'll admit i've been a hater this last couple of weeks, but I still believe we will turn this around

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, Barky said:

I think some people need to remember last season was an anomaly. It's like earning £20k per year for your whole life and then one year winning the lottery. You'd be foolish to then raise your expectations so much that you're then disappointed if you don't win the lottery again the next year. The important thing is that we've made progress over a longer time period, and we have. We're still in one of the best positions we've been in during the modern football era. Only last season and the MON season's top it.

I don't think hoping for a top

10 finish is raising your expectations, if every team that had a successful year lowered their expectations then there would be no progression.

Bourmouth fans should be happy with the championship.

Southhampton fans after their double promotion.

Stoke, Seansea etc etc 

 

everrbody expected the run to finish eventually.

but no one saw the lack of hunger and desire going so quickly.

4 defeats in 48 odd premier langue games 

to a team that looked a shadow of itself in months after lifting the trophy.

The warning signs were there pre season and against Hull, the "slump" in form continues to get worse as the weeks go by.

 

but hey it's ok because we should just be happy to be in the premier league regardless of the effort and desire the players are showing.

[Fox92]

It's not just the results it's performances too. Performances have been very very poor, lack of effort, lazy at times and no commitment. 

 

[HighPeakFox]

One of the issues on FT is it gets personal - everyone cares, just in their own way. So some people have changed their mind...........big deal - takes a brave man to do that, it isn't better to be dogmatic. I've seen people post utter tripe one day and find myself (much to my surprise) in complete agreement a week later over something else.

 

I'll now wait for someone to 'positively and constructively' dredge through all my posts to find a personal quote, thus proving me a hypocrite - I'm not perfect either. 

 

Can we just agree that the team is playing very badly and it's a bit depressing?

[Guest Col city fan]

51 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

One of the issues on FT is it gets personal - everyone cares, just in their own way. So some people have changed their mind...........big deal - takes a brave man to do that, it isn't better to be dogmatic. I've seen people post utter tripe one day and find myself (much to my surprise) in complete agreement a week later over something else.

 

I'll now wait for someone to 'positively and constructively' dredge through all my posts to find a personal quote, thus proving me a hypocrite - I'm not perfect either. 

 

Can we just agree that the team is playing very badly and it's a bit depressing?

Mate.  That's how FT has been for years. I've seen an amazing amount of hypocrisy on here...sometimes I've changed like the bloody wind.

Don't keep letting it wind you up! You seem a very decent chap but are you sure this place is right for you?

[Ted Maul]

The reality is that a team who were head and shoulders above anyone else in the country last season should not be in a relegation fight.

 

Our current position is realistic given the quality in our squad? Nonsense. We had players over perform last season, but we have the current PFA player of the year along with title winners with plenty of international experience. This squad would be good enough to compete with most teams if they put their mind to it again.

 

Sorry, but I'm not settling for where we are now. We're better than that. Maybe not historically, but currently we're massively underperforming and it's about time we put it right.

[adejo92]

fight fight fight

[RonnieTodger]

Nobody was expecting us to win the league or even challenge again, especially after losing Kante. 

 

What is pathetic is the rapid downfall of results and performances. We could've became a steady regular top-half side for the next few seasons with some quality signings, but we've shown almost too much faith by giving the regulars from last season a free run with lucrative contracts and not signing anybody to challenge them for their place or even bolster our back-ups. 

 

There is a very long way to go, but we've seen the same turgid performances all season. The result on Wednesday was horrendous and whilst it wasn't our first XI, there's no way that they would've gotten a result either.

 

History shows that we probably should flirt with relegation, but we changed history last year. The summer was a chance to bring in quality and whilst we won't stay in the Premier League for the rest of our time or even challenge for it again, I thought it would take us a long time to be in relegation battle - not 6 months.

[jon1bc]

HAHA love it

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

3 hours ago, Crinklyfox said:

The history of the club in my lifetime backs this up, however it doesn't have to stay that way and the owners, and hopefully a lot of the supporters, want to move on from that.

 

The football league is littered with 'big clubs' whose glory days have passed; similarly, there are 'big clubs' today that were not always so.  It may be that despite all efforts City never become a 'big club', but we should not consider ourselves bound by our history.  No-one achieves greatness by believing that they cannot do so.

 

Years ago I responded to a post which claimed that we would be happier in the Championship with a similar message.  I'm glad that the club didn't accept mediocrity then and I don't believe they will do so now.  For me it is still onwards and upwards.

Excellent post. Cannot believe the posters who think there should be/is a natural yo-yo position for the club and are Ok with it - a lack of ambition that is scarcely believable. There is no just treading water and bobbing up and down. Ask Leeds or Portsmouth.