General Election, June 8th

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

That's unlikely though given the IFS have already come out yesterday and said it's likely to damage the economy long term.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/10/labour-corporation-tax-schools-economy-ifs-jeremy-corbyn

 

Well yes... but it's whether they add up initially that is the key thing.

 

The effect on the economy long term is a debating point (much like Brexit) and there's doubts on the Conservative position here too.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Look at this bloody bus, you can barely see the word Conservatives.

 

It's "Theresa May" v "Labour".

 

[LiberalFox]

I prefer the politics of having a philosophy and getting like minded people together to construct meaningful policy and then asking the public to support your ideas as oppose to using market research companies to determine the most effective slogans and gesture politics that require the minimum of effort to implement.  

[Samilktray]

I saw an article floating around on twitter saying the Lib Dems wanted to legalize marijuana, is this fake news? 

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Samilktray said:

I saw an article floating around on twitter saying the Lib Dems wanted to legalize marijuana, is this fake news? 

No idea.

 

It's an unpopular policy though, I'd admire them for putting principle before votes.

[SMX11]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

Look at this bloody bus, you can barely see the word Conservatives.

 

It's "Theresa May" v "Labour".

 

We really need to snap out of these Presidential style elections. Both front benches are poor and full of sycophants and they will be doing most of the damage.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

6 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

I saw an article floating around on twitter saying the Lib Dems wanted to legalize marijuana, is this fake news? 

 

Sorry, no, it's an actual confirmed policy.

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

Sifting through Labour's sweet-shop of gifts, has anyone worked out what would happen:

 

* When the 1% (Rich) who currently pay 27% of all UK taxes (+ huge net contributor with employment), start to leave / move their wealth opportunities out of the UK

* When the all the small / medium business who will move from below 20% Corporation Tax to 26% within 5 years decide to give up, move or downsize. The incentive to own a business and employ would be heavily reduced with one of the worlds highest CT rates.

 

Don't get me wrong there is a whole debate about how money is raised both ethically and literally, but the above is a large step towards removing huge chunks of the revenue you actually need to pay for everything.

 

Forget the gifts, where is the money coming from? 

[Guest MattP]

Just now, SMX11 said:

We really need to snap out of these Presidential style elections. Both front benches are poor and full of sycophants and they will be doing most of the damage.

We do, but when May's ratings are so high and Corbyn's so low the Tories can't really do anything else.

 

Labour candidates have been quite open about how people are even telling them on the doorstep "I'm not voting Corbyn, I'm voting for Theresa May" rather than saying the parties.

[Nick]

This government have put so much pressure on small to medium businesses in the last 5 years I'm surprised many are afloat. The pensions intervention is a positive thing - don't get me wrong but where was the help for setting them up, changing all the funding and tax codes and variation in bonus salary spreadsheets, tax brackets car allowances and pensionable discounts for companies with 40-100 employees... it was a fairly crippling process for some with shoddy guidance and support but of course with the threat of fines and on that subject, the OFT fined a bunch of people on their last day before going back to being HMRC controlled without help or evidence - a couple of which went to the High Court and ended up costing the tax payer a million or so due to the stupidity of their actions. Rises in company car tax and diesel cars which many signed up on lengthy lease agreements some time ago are hurting small business never mind corporation taxes - I acknowledge they have done good in terms of taxable income for average workers but for small to medium businesses they really have stung them left right and centre.

[Finnaldo]

14 minutes ago, MattP said:

We do, but when May's ratings are so high and Corbyn's so low the Tories can't really do anything else.

 

Labour candidates have been quite open about how people are even telling them on the doorstep "I'm not voting Corbyn, I'm voting for Theresa May" rather than saying the parties.

 

I think it's a great move by May personally, when confidence in Corbyn/Labour is purportedly so low the best way to steal the votes from old school voters of Labour who have always seen Tories as the old enemy is to shift focus from the party to a figurehead of Brexit and the 'secure and stable' governance. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

6 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Sifting through Labour's sweet-shop of gifts, has anyone worked out what would happen:

 

* When the 1% (Rich) who currently pay 27% of all UK taxes (+ huge net contributor with employment), start to leave / move their wealth opportunities out of the UK

* When the all the small / medium business who will move from below 20% Corporation Tax to 26% within 5 years decide to give up, move or downsize. The incentive to own a business and employ would be heavily reduced with one of the worlds highest CT rates.

 

Don't get me wrong there is a whole debate about how money is raised both ethically and literally, but the above is a large step towards removing huge chunks of the revenue you actually need to pay for everything.

 

Forget the gifts, where is the money coming from? 

 

Corporation tax is a complex area and so consequences really shouldn't be debated in such a simple form.

 

For example, corporation tax is only payable on profits but there are various deductions available to a company which enables it to offset a liability, so if corporation tax is increased what we may find is companies are more inclined to reinvest some of the profits back into a business to then reduce its overall burden - upgrading machinery / equipment for example, which then creates its own opportunities for connected businesses.

 

I've also not heard any detailed analysis of corporation tax take between different rates - the basic headline comment has been the total government tax take recently was more under the lower rate, however if the economy is performing better, conceivably more companies are making profit, giving more opportunity for tax to be paid.

 

I also ponder if the excédons theory is a bit of a myth... it may matter to a few companies, but ultiamely there's many more important reasons why most businesses are based in the UK than the corporate tax rate - given Ireland's rate has been so much lower than ours for ages.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

20 minutes ago, MattP said:

We do, but when May's ratings are so high and Corbyn's so low the Tories can't really do anything else.

 

Labour candidates have been quite open about how people are even telling them on the doorstep "I'm not voting Corbyn, I'm voting for Theresa May" rather than saying the parties.

 

What happens when they can't find either of those names on the ballot? They're black and white too, so the colours won't help them! 

 

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, Soundman said:

I'm not die hard one side or the other but looking at Labor manifesto it appears that Labor do not want anyone to vote for them and are trying to ruin their own party. who wants to natonalise all those services ?

 

A poll suggests that quite a lot of people support these nationalisation policies: http://news.sky.com/story/labours-policies-more-popular-with-voters-than-jeremy-corbyn-10873570

- 52%-22% for rail nationalisation

- 49%-24% for energy nationalisation

- 50%-25% for Royal Mail nationalisation

 

Of course, it could also fuel perceptions of excessive spending, but they've already said that they'd wait for rail franchises to expire and would renationalise energy companies gradually - plus they're going to be lambasted for planning too much spending whatever they do, so they might have more to gain than they have to lose.

 

Labour's problem is less to do with policies and more to do with Corbyn v. May in the context of Brexit and turbulent times.

I reckon they should make much more of May's refusal to do TV debates, to meet the public etc. She's not very good with people and not particularly articulate or charismatic, but can seem calm, authoritative and reassuring if they allow her to spend the campaign conveying messages unchallenged via polite TV interviews etc. The opposition parties need to force her out of her comfort zone so that she might end up looking less prime-ministerial. Corbyn isn't great on a personal level either, but he's already taken a big hit in the polls for that - May hasn't.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

A poll suggests that quite a lot of people support these nationalisation policies: http://news.sky.com/story/labours-policies-more-popular-with-voters-than-jeremy-corbyn-10873570

- 52%-22% for rail nationalisation

- 49%-24% for energy nationalisation

- 50%-25% for Royal Mail nationalisation

 

Of course, it could also fuel perceptions of excessive spending, but they've already said that they'd wait for rail franchises to expire and would renationalise energy companies gradually - plus they're going to be lambasted for planning too much spending whatever they do, so they might have more to gain than they have to lose.

 

Labour's problem is less to do with policies and more to do with Corbyn v. May in the context of Brexit and turbulent times.

I reckon they should make much more of May's refusal to do TV debates, to meet the public etc. She's not very good with people and not particularly articulate or charismatic, but can seem calm, authoritative and reassuring if they allow her to spend the campaign conveying messages unchallenged via polite TV interviews etc. The opposition parties need to force her out of her comfort zone so that she might end up looking less prime-ministerial. Corbyn isn't great on a personal level either, but he's already taken a big hit in the polls for that - May hasn't.

I just want whats best for the country as does everyone else. I'm not sure we are sure what is best as they all seem to tell lies and disagree with each other regardless

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I've always voted Tory...but not this time.

Quite simply, any party who want to bring back fox hunting can go to Hell.

Why on earth grown men and women would want to get dressed up like cvnts and ride round the country with the aim of letting their dogs rip a fox to bits, is beyond me.

Its beyond me....

The problem is I don't think Labout offer anything like a viable alternative.

I might just not vote this time. 

 

If you oppose the Tories because of fox hunting but can't support any other party, why not turn up and spoil your ballot rather than not vote?

 

Spoiled ballots are counted and announced, so it will be noticed if there are a lot of spoiled ballots. Whereas if you don't vote nobody knows whether you just had no interest in politics or couldn't be bothered.

 

You can also spoil a ballot in such a way as to send a message. All the major parties have tellers scrutinising the count. So, if the Tory tellers see a number of ballot papers marked "Spoilt - Tory against hunting" or similar, that's likely to get fed back to the party, I'd have thought.

[lgfualol]

42 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

I saw an article floating around on twitter saying the Lib Dems wanted to legalize marijuana, is this fake news? 

Yea they estimate legalising it and taxing would bring in between £500m-1billion a year. It makes sense to me. 

 

Reduces police work, less money for criminals, safer to buy, etc. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

If you oppose the Tories because of fox hunting but can't support any other party, why not turn up and spoil your ballot rather than not vote?

 

Spoiled ballots are counted and announced, so it will be noticed if there are a lot of spoiled ballots. Whereas if you don't vote nobody knows whether you just had no interest in politics or couldn't be bothered.

 

You can also spoil a ballot in such a way as to send a message. All the major parties have tellers scrutinising the count. So, if the Tory tellers see a number of ballot papers marked "Spoilt - Tory against hunting" or similar, that's likely to get fed back to the party, I'd have thought.

 

@Col city fan 

 

Just be careful if you write 'fox' - if the 'x' is inside a box, it may be counted as a vote! 

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Did anyone on here vote Remain and agree with the corporation tax rise to 25% in Corbyn's manifesto? 

 

This is policy that to me see the most ill-thought out, we have been told for months it's going to be difficult to keep big companies here post Brexit and last Sunday Macron won the French election that contained a promise to reduce corporation tax to 15%.

 

Given the reduction from 20% to 19% raised money for the treasury is anyone remotely confident a massive rise would increase it with the other factors at play?

 

Economically, assuming Hard Brexit goes ahead, I'd agree that jacking up corporation tax that much is unwise. I doubt that it would lead to an immediate mass exodus - but a gradual exodus of some firms (and loss of other potential investment) seems likely over a few years.

 

Electorally, it seems unwise, too. It is bound to fuel accusations of Labour being "anti-business", wanting to increase taxes generally or being economically untrustworthy. I'm not sure how much damage that will do, as Labour will face those perceptions and accusations anyway - but it will probably do some damage.

 

Some people will like the idea of hitting big business, but mainly people who already intend to vote Labour. Given how few people have a detailed understanding of economics, for electoral purposes they'd have been better off saying that they intended to get the extra money from a major clampdown on tax avoidance by big business and the super-rich......probably wouldn't bring in the funds they want, but would be better electoral politics.

 

Mind you, if Macron tries to reduce French corporation tax to 15%, I can see him having riots on his hands. He's going to face a lot of opposition to plans to reform the public sector, anyway - if he tries to increase personal taxation and/or launch an even bigger assault on public spending, things could get interesting.....he might not even have a parliamentary majority to legislate for such plans.

[Guest MattP]

14 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

You can also spoil a ballot in such a way as to send a message. All the major parties have tellers scrutinising the count. So, if the Tory tellers see a number of ballot papers marked "Spoilt - Tory against hunting" or similar, that's likely to get fed back to the party, I'd have thought.

Absolutely, the people from all parties check these to contend if they are valid so it's actually the best way you can send a message directly to any party on polling day.

 

A veyr left wing friend of mine didn't like the fact none of the parties he wanted to support didn't send leaflets out in the council elections so wrote on his form "If you want my vote send me a leaflet" to them on his form.

 

4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

@Col city fan 

 

Just be careful if you write 'fox' - if the 'x' is inside a box, it may be counted as a vote! 

There was a guy in Wales who drew a penis in the Tory box and the CRO decided it should count as a vote.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32658907/election-2015-mp-thanks-voter-for-penis-ballot-paper-mark

 

Quote

 

"Amazingly, because it was neatly drawn within the confines of the box the returning officer deemed it a valid vote.

"I'm not sure the artist meant it to count, but I am grateful. If I knew who it was, I would like to thank him (or her) personally."

 

 

[Rincewind]

I wonder if May hopes to win the votes of disabled people by bringing back foxhunting and not ruling out more cuts to their income?

[Alf Bentley]

19 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

 

From 1992..

 

Bloody hell!

 

May looks like a delinquent female skinhead in that photo. 

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Mind you, if Macron tries to reduce French corporation tax to 15%, I can see him having riots on his hands. He's going to face a lot of opposition to plans to reform the public sector, anyway - if he tries to increase personal taxation and/or launch an even bigger assault on public spending, things could get interesting.....he might not even have a parliamentary majority to legislate for such plans.

 

Trying not to go off topic it looks very unlikely he'll get that majority, he's going to need some serious coalition building skills to get and if Melanchon's party and the Front National have a big representation we could end up with another set of elections in a few months, it's as different as it gets this from my reading, electing a president with almost no power to do anything at the moment.

[LiberalFox]

I don't like any of the parties approach to business to be honest. They're either too bureaucratic or too authoritarian or too dogmatic or a mixture of the three. The trouble is the parties need the votes of ordinary people who don't understand business or really care beyond a superficial emotional involvement.  

[Alf Bentley]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

There was a guy in Wales who drew a penis in the Tory box and the CRO decided it should count as a vote.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32658907/election-2015-mp-thanks-voter-for-penis-ballot-paper-mark

 

 

 

I suppose the penis within that particular box was interpreted as meaning "they're dickheads but they're my sort of dickheads"?

 

I vaguely remember spoiling my ballot as a protest in a council election once, but can't remember why now! 

Might have been a protest against New Labour failing to introduce proportional representation....if so, I stand by my judgment.