Incident at London Bridge

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

My girlfriend comes from a Pakistani Muslim family background who are completely integrated into British society.

Absolutely, being foriegn or and islamic does not mean you cant integrate.  Integration is a choice and majority do.

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Fvckin integration! there's no such thing. 

[Dr The Singh]

2 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

 

It doesn't sound too difficult to stop schools being taken over by extremists to be honest. Same with prisons. Parents need to take responsibility for not sending their kids to extremist youth clubs and places of worship. 

Probably just as easy for extremist to take over schools.in a religious school

[LiberalFox]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

Probably just as easy for extremist to take over schools.in a religious school

 

Yeah I'd like to get rid of religious schools but there's a lot of money and power behind religions.

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, LiberalFox said:

 

Yeah I'd like to get rid of religious schools but there's a lot of money and power behind religions.

Agreed, more so there is alot of money for religions to make money from schools.

[Dr The Singh]

23 hours ago, toddybad said:

It certainly seems to be viewed that way and with deep suspicion within our minority communities. I think we need to engage with ALL muslims not just so called community leaders. I have no faith in such self-appointed persons to hep the situation whereas ordinary muslims will be able to explain what we need to do. I do think we need to look at how we can get proper integration between our communities. 

It's going to have to be driven by Muslims, they need the funds, support, training, infrastructure to look and engage with Mosques, Prisons, schools, unemployed, shisha bars, halal restaurants etc, and focus on a positive message, working on the disassociated and build strong relationships,.so Muslims and public feel comfortable In reporting extremism.

 

 I hate to feel we need to focus on young kids and youth, this maybe a lost generation.

[nnfox]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Meanwhile this shite about police cuts is opportunistic imo.  They shot the ****ers in 8 minutes. This is amazing.  More bobbies on the beat - even if you arm every one of them, wouldn't really help I don't believe.

London is very well resourced.  The rest of the country not so much.  It is a national issue, you can't look at this incident in a city with 24/7 armed patrols dedicated to exactly this sort of thing and say there isn't an issue.  8 minutes was amazing, but nowhere else in the country could have gotten anywhere near that response time.

 

There has been plenty of soundbites from TM about how the counter terroism spending has increased, but where do these resources come from?  Other areas of policing - that's where and those areas have been cut, so those experienced officers aren't replaced with any meaningful recruitment, leaving the bobbie on the beat a bit of a dying breed.

 

It is robbing Peter to pay Paul, and Paul needs paying right now, not in easy monthly installments.

 

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Moving resources when you have a crisis is perfectly sensible, and I think cancelling leave is something they have always done no?

It is.  My mate works in the met.  All officers have been put on 12 hour shifts for the next week at least (up to 4 hrs compulspry OT) and firearms officers can work whatever OT hours they choose, up to 16 hours per shift including rest days.

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, nnfox said:

London is very well resourced.  The rest of the country not so much.  It is a national issue, you can't look at this incident in a city with 24/7 armed patrols dedicated to exactly this sort of thing and say there isn't an issue.  8 minutes was amazing, but nowhere else in the country could have gotten anywhere near that response time.

 

There has been plenty of soundbites from TM about how the counter terroism spending has increased, but where do these resources come from?  Other areas of policing - that's where and those areas have been cut, so those experienced officers aren't replaced with any meaningful recruitment, leaving the bobbie on the beat a bit of a dying breed.

 

It is robbing Peter to pay Paul, and Paul needs paying right now, not in easy monthly installments.

 

It is.  My mate works in the met.  All officers have been put on 12 hour shifts for the next week at least (up to 4 hrs compulspry OT) and firearms officers can work whatever OT hours they choose, up to 16 hours per shift including rest days.

Such a great point, your right London is massively resourced.  It's small towns and villages that lost out the most

[LiberalFox]

The biggest problem doesn't appear to be getting extremism reported, it appears to be what happens once it is. I know the government has a program "channel" https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/channel-guidance which is supposed to be a sort of "re-education" initiative but I don't know whether it is properly funded or actually effective. I feel like there must be 1000's of Muslims out there who would consider being involved in efforts to de-radicalise people. It feels like so many of these terrorists should have been obvious risks so either the country is absolutely ****ed and they are everywhere or the resources aren't getting to the right people. 

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

 

It doesn't sound too difficult to stop schools being taken over by extremists to be honest. Same with prisons. Parents need to take responsibility for not sending their kids to extremist youth clubs and places of worship. 

Perhaps you've never been to Birmingham. 

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Perhaps you've never been to Birmingham. 

[yorkie1999]

The home of the Kabul ring

[foxfanazer]

Do people really think these people can be de-radicalised? I have to say that seems ridiculous 

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

The home of the Kabul ring

?

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

Do people really think these people can be de-radicalised? I have to say that seems ridiculous 

There's churches in America that can de-gays, gays.

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

There's churches in America that can de-gays, gays.

Difference between blowing yourself up and blowing....... Oh never mind

[Lionator]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

Do people really think these people can be de-radicalised? I have to say that seems ridiculous 

Yeah, Maajid Nawaz is a good example. Some people are obviously beyond help, but some others can be brought back whether that be through terrible experiences in prisons/other countries or through cutting off their exposure to radicals.

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

Difference between blowing yourself up and blowing....... Oh never mind

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Lionator said:

Yeah, Maajid Nawaz is a good example. Some people are obviously beyond help, but some others can be brought back whether that be through terrible experiences in prisons/other countries or through cutting off their exposure to radicals.

Maybe I'm just cynical but I think you have to have something fundamentally wrong with you in the first place to allow yourself to be radicalised

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, Lionator said:

Yeah, Maajid Nawaz is a good example. Some people are obviously beyond help, but some others can be brought back whether that be through terrible experiences in prisons/other countries or through cutting off their exposure to radicals.

I've got a good mate, who was converted and radicalised in prison, he has given up his faith and become a athiest and given up his radical ways.  Still doesn't eat pork though.

[Lionator]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

Maybe I'm just cynical but I think you have to have something fundamentally wrong with you in the first place to allow yourself to be radicalised

I guess every person is different, some are out and out evil psychopaths, others end up being radicalised due to their social circumstances.

[Spiritwalker]

My opinion on how to deal with this problem has dramatically changed in the

last few weeks, I feel like we have walked on eggshells around this problem

for too long. We need a zero tolerance approach to extremists. If there is 2000

people of interest then those with dual passports should be deported, and those 

who are British nationals should be tagged.

Although I was an ardent remainer one good thing about Brexit is that it will

be easier to deport foriegn extremists.

[LiberalFox]

7 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Perhaps you've never been to Birmingham. 

I've been to Birmingham, there's a high proportion of Muslims if that was what you were getting at. Which is part of the point. There's only a handful of places in the country where you'd expect extremism to be a problem. We have a bit of an issue where extremists can get into local government but that is partly due to our outdated political system. 

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

I've got a good mate, who was converted and radicalised in prison, he has given up his faith and become a athiest and given up his radical ways.  Still doesn't eat pork though.

I think the issue of radicalisation in heavily Muslim populated prisons is the sense of security it offers. Strength in numbers and all that. 

[Lionator]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

I think the issue of radicalisation in heavily Muslim populated prisons is the sense of security it offers. Strength in numbers and all that. 

Some of the stories you hear from prisons are absolutely batsh*t insane, it beggars belief that we allow these things to go on in these settings.