Incident at London Bridge

[LiberalFox]

Just now, toddybad said:

Both TBF. The idea of public servants pledging allegiance is ridiculous. But then so is the idea that we should be worried if 3rd/4th generation brits felt this caused them difficulty. If that is the case then we really are in trouble!

Ah okay. I would feel awkward having to make an oath to take up a civil service job but I would feel awful having to watch a Muslim make one. I had a discussion with Liberals about this once and views were quite split, some thought it would be a nice thing to do, at the end of the day it's gesture politics at best anyway. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Ah okay. I would feel awkward having to make an oath to take up a civil service job but I would feel awful having to watch a Muslim make one. I had a discussion with Liberals about this once and views were quite split, some thought it would be a nice thing to do, at the end of the day it's gesture politics at best anyway. 

I may not have been clear on what I meant in the second part of my last response. I meant that if 3rd/4th generation brits don't feel they can do that then we have a significant problem. 

[Rincewind]

I'm pretty sure police officers have to take an oath. Somebody who once worked at a job Centre said they have to sign  a sort of secret act. Obviously they cannot go round sharing publics details but it also means there is little information about their job roles and what they are expected to do.

Can be good or bad.

[Guest]

Wow

 

 

[Jattdogg]

33 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Wow

 

 

Well good on him for calling her out essentially if what he said is true. Takes balls and the public should  be aware of what politicians arent doing instead of listening to their typical expected speeches that go nowhere

[Rincewind]

All parties are saying there needs to be more officers. Only the Tories say they have which turns out to be a misguided truth. 

If making officers do more shifts and moving the around is true for the polce then what of the other services? Has the public brrn drludrd over them as well?

[Jattdogg]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/london-attack-castlegar-1.4145737

[urban.spaceman]

Prayed for London 2 months ago. 

 

Turns out God is a TWAT.

[spacemunky]

1 hour ago, Jattdogg said:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/london-attack-castlegar-1.4145737

So sad.

 

Sad for all those that lost their lives or were hurt  

[The Doctor]

7 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Oh please. TM has not (in her time in control as PM) been an aggressor in any way.  She has been firm with regard to world affairs, but seemingly fair so far.  No war mongering on her CV.  However, she would press the red button if needed and agrees with shoot to kill for the police to enact.  He wouldn't and doesn't which is why he is a wet and not suitable as a PM.

 

Anyway where in my point am I talking about needing to be an aggressor?  I'm on about defense of our nation from attack and your point doesn't cut it with that.

Yes, she hasn't started any wars. She's also only been in number 10 for 9 months, so that's not that much of a surprise. What's her voting record like when it comes to military intervention overseas?

 

if you actually listen to Corbyn, he is more along the lines of not seeing a scenario where he'd have to, and definitely not pushing first. And he's completely right: it's called MAD for a reason, because you'd have to be mad to fire them - and no rogue state that could be that mad is anywhere near the capacity to threaten us, and I cannot understand why people would ever want us to use them as a first strike. I can only assume they're completely ignorant of nuclear weapons, and think it just means a big bomb - under no circumstances should we be clamouring to start a nuclear holocaust, likely to destroy the human race as we know it.

 

you were talking about his moral compass, I posted about where his moral compass is pointing...

[Dr The Singh]

More officers, more nurses, more doctors.......TM must be embarrassed, I feel let down by our government, we sound like a 3rd world country, and if it meant me paying a couple of quid more to have these, then so be it.

 

To support deradicalisation efforts, thats going to take cash......where is that money comming from?

[Lionator]

Indeed, it appears that these guys were once again known to the authorities and one even quizzed by police last year after raising an ISIS flag on a channel 4 documentary in London. While the blame goes to the ideology, we are also being let down by our government and this unfortuntately is going to keep happening.

[Rincewind]

With the button it is a no win situation. If you press first you are the agressor. If you retaliate both sides and the World is destroyed. If you do nothing you are destroyed anyway. The best thing is not to be in that situation which means a lot of diplomacy and talk with all kinds of people.  Even some you cannot abide or agree with.

Corbyn is being called mad for NOT wanting to kill 6 billion people. It is unfair to ask him as it is a situation he nor anyone else wants to be in. Has May actually said that she would gladly press the button or give the order? Because the focus seems to be on Corbyn saying that he would be reluctant to.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

10 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well maybe now, after this happened,  being suspected of being radicalised is tantamount to being suspected of being a terrorist 

So dangerous.

 

Personally having grown up

with several muslim friends, I could fully understand if they ended up radicalised having seen what they've been through personally.

 

Does that mean I have terrorist sympathies?  Does that mean i'm in danger of being converted and radicalised?  Should I expect a knock on the door?

 

Absolutely no to all those questions but if the authorities knew my views......

 

This just isn't a good situation at all.  

 

One things for sure, our government (whoever gets in) need to start

listening to those who actually know what they're talking about and not

use the police and armed forces

to balance the books.  They said there was a danger this could happen and were ignored.  

[Guest Foxin_mad]

10 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Indeed, it appears that these guys were once again known to the authorities and one even quizzed by police last year after raising an ISIS flag on a channel 4 documentary in London. While the blame goes to the ideology, we are also being let down by our government and this unfortuntately is going to keep happening.

We are being let down by our values.

 

Presumably these people of which there are 3000+ can not be prosecuted under current laws, we can not lock them up or deport them.

 

We need to stop the cause of the problem, radical clerics and Mosques, they need to be checked and closed down if preaching radical beliefs.

 

There has to be a global agreement to make the likes of Google etc take down terrorist shit from the internet.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Foxin_mad said:

We are being let down by our values.

 

Presumably these people of which there are 3000+ can not be prosecuted under current laws, we can not lock them up or deport them.

 

We need to stop the cause of the problem, radical clerics and Mosques, they need to be checked and closed down if preaching radical beliefs.

 

There has to be a global agreement to make the likes of Google etc take down terrorist shit from the internet.

That's okay for the future, maybe in a generation or two, but what about the 3000+ potential terrorists that cannot be touched until they mow down a load of people in the street or walk into a concert with a bag of explosives strapped to their backs.

[Finnaldo]

Can I quiz on where we've got this 3000+ figure from?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/25/there-are-up-to-3000-terrorists-on-uk-streets-at-the-moment-6662165/

[Guest Foxin_mad]

8 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

That's okay for the future, maybe in a generation or two, but what about the 3000+ potential terrorists that cannot be touched until they mow down a load of people in the street or walk into a concert with a bag of explosives strapped to their backs.

Id happily round them up deport them or execute them as collateral damage but apparently given our values that is not fair!

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/25/there-are-up-to-3000-terrorists-on-uk-streets-at-the-moment-6662165/

 

Reading that article it's obviously a fairly sensationalist headline, that's 3000 who may or may not be terrorists. To say that's up to 3000 terrorists is likewise to saying there's up to 10 murderers in a murder case. There certainly isn't, but there's simply 10 suspects who could be the murderer. Deporting and killing this '3000+' is like putting a firing squad to a police lineup.

 

Not saying there should be more police powers to deal with potential suspect on the watchlist, but to claim the 3000+ on the watchlist are terrorists by word of a rag you get free on the bus is grossly negligent of what makes us a civilised society in the first place.

[Innovindil]

34 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Indeed, it appears that these guys were once again known to the authorities and one even quizzed by police last year after raising an ISIS flag on a channel 4 documentary in London. While the blame goes to the ideology, we are also being let down by our government and this unfortuntately is going to keep happening.

What exactly would you like the government to do? It's not illegal to hold extremist views and if you make it illegal you'll be forever trying to explain what extremist views are okay and which ones get you locked up. 

 

For all those criticising police and health cuts. The time between first report and all suspects eliminated was 8 minutes, how many countries could boast of a response time like that? And has anyone died who could otherwise have been saved with more doctors/nurses? I doubt it. 

[foxy boxing]

Just want to offer my condolences to those who lost friends or relatives and all those that were affected by these evil and barbaric persons. they want to create an atmosphere of fear, hate and division in our society and we cannot let them.

[Finnaldo]

11 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

What exactly would you like the government to do? It's not illegal to hold extremist views and if you make it illegal you'll be forever trying to explain what extremist views are okay and which ones get you locked up. 

 

For all those criticising police and health cuts. The time between first report and all suspects eliminated was 8 minutes, how many countries could boast of a response time like that? And has anyone died who could otherwise have been saved with more doctors/nurses? I doubt it. 

 

I think you could argue that raising the flag of an organisation on the terror watchlist could be made an offence.

[Guest Bob Hazels shorts]

52 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

So dangerous.

 

Personally having grown up

with several muslim friends, I could fully understand if they ended up radicalised having seen what they've been through personally.

 

Does that mean I have terrorist sympathies?  Does that mean i'm in danger of being converted and radicalised?  Should I expect a knock on the door?

 

Absolutely no to all those questions but if the authorities knew my views......

 

This just isn't a good situation at all.  

 

One things for sure, our government (whoever gets in) need to start

listening to those who actually know what they're talking about and not

use the police and armed forces

to balance the books.  They said there was a danger this could happen and were ignored.  

The UK Home Office, MI5’s parent agency, defines radicalization as “The process by which people come to support terrorism and violent extremism and, in some cases, then join terrorist groups"

 

Find your statement alarming if true. If your friends live in a city such as Leicester what have they been through that has caused you to understand this.

 

[AKCJ]

The Sun's front page today is, as you'd expect, miles out of order.