Incident at London Bridge

[AKCJ]

[Rincewind]

ISIS will use that picture for recruitment. The Sun does not help the situation.

[urban.spaceman]

Has The Sun ever helped any situation?

[Innovindil]

55 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Prefer the Australian headline tbh. 

 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, Bob Hazels shorts said:

The UK Home Office, MI5’s parent agency, defines radicalization as “The process by which people come to support terrorism and violent extremism and, in some cases, then join terrorist groups"

 

Find your statement alarming if true. If your friends live in a city such as Leicester what have they been through that has caused you to understand this.

 

From a young age, racist taunting, assault, vandalism to property, mother spat at, sister assualted (racially motivated).  There's other things that I wont go into.

 

Point being that some people (vunerable, mentally ill etc) who are treated that way for who they are and not what they've done, could easily be manipulated into radicalisation.  Its not that difficult to see.

 

The narrative of they're evil and we're not is easy to deal with but it will never solve the problem.

 

The Manchester bomber was 17 when he was first reported.  If we had a system in place where instead of going on a watchlist, they could be taken in (reluctant to use the word sectioned) and de-radicalised, it may be we could prevent radicalisation instead of just trying to firefight terrorist threat.

 

 

[Lovejoy]

I work immediately next to London Bridge itself on the North side of the river and saw my office block in a lot of the footage of Saturday night. It's slightly surreal and eerily quiet here. It most definitely has had more impact on me given I spend five days a week here.

[Countryfox]

13 hours ago, Chico1958 said:

 

I know I've put this on another thread but come on people............ Chill Out

 

Not quite ...    this one looks a tad different to me ..

 

Skeleton of cephalothoracopagus monosymmetros twins

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

From a young age, racist taunting, assault, vandalism to property, mother spat at, sister assualted (racially motivated).  There's other things that I wont go into.

 

Point being that some people (vunerable, mentally ill etc) who are treated that way for who they are and not what they've done, could easily be manipulated into radicalisation.  Its not that difficult to see.

 

The narrative of they're evil and we're not is easy to deal with but it will never solve the problem.

 

The Manchester bomber was 17 when he was first reported.  If we had a system in place where instead of going on a watchlist, they could be taken in (reluctant to use the word sectioned) and de-radicalised, it may be we could prevent radicalisation instead of just trying to firefight terrorist threat.

 

 

It would have been a lot better if we had never opened the door to religious zealots in the first place.

Corbyn calls for May to resign over the cuts in police but we should never have needed so many police if Blair hadn't promoted the idealism he never had a mandate for and which even some Labour stalwarts have since admitted was misguided.

I wonder what Corbyn would say about that given his plans to encourage even more immigration and, inevitably, the arrival of more zealots and their offspring to be who are clearly likely to be vulnerable to the radicalisation you mention.

I'd rather spend our money on positive projects rather than mending the minds of people who should never be living in a place they are so at odds with, should never be having their minds corrupted either at home, at their place of worship or anywhere else and certainly not at our eventual expense.

I keep hearing about Muslims' condemnation of the radicals and some might be sincere. But I am in no way convinced that there aren't many who quietly condone the attacks and, indeed, anything that hurts our soft but essentially caring and embracing society.

Because if they really wanted to send a message of condemnation they'd abandon man-organised Islam and practice genuinely righteous Islamic or any other behaviour in private, while actually supporting and appreciating the society they, and sometimes their fathers and grandfathers, have freely chosen to live in.

As it is we continue to facilitate trojan horses within our midst and that with all sorts of cover-ups about the disastrous impact of Blair's adventure on our country and its safety.

As I've said before, our streets and our systems are now, necessarily. teeming with security measures that were never necessary on anything like such a scale in the past.

Yet still we are in denial, still Mrs May talks about "enough" and still Corbyn unashamedly boasts about his pacifism which will get rammed right down his oratorial throat by those who might support his stance and party right now, but only for their own ends and advancement of their own way of life when the chance arises. If our national leaders were footballers they'd score own goals every week.      

 

 

       

          

[bovril]

Yeah totally Blairs fault that people born in Britain before he even became PM turned out to be murdering cvnts. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Prefer the Australian headline tbh. 

 

Yes saw that 

[Thracian]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Yeah totally Blairs fault that people born in Britain before he even became PM turned out to be murdering cvnts. 

The serious problems arose with numbers, not isolated individuals or organisations who and which have always been around and representing all sorts of ideals.   

[Fox92]

Quote

London Bridge attacker, known as 'Abs', was extremist who had been reported to authorities and featured in documentary

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-bridge-attacker-known-as-abs-was-extremist-who-had-been-reported-to-authorities-and-featured-a3557001.html

 

 

Look at the state of that picture. They actually unveil an IS flag in Regents Park. Should have been thrown in jail for that alone.

 

 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Thracian said:

The serious problems arose with numbers, not isolated individuals or organisations who and which have always been around and representing all sorts of ideals.   

Er no actually the opposite. 

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-bridge-attacker-known-as-abs-was-extremist-who-had-been-reported-to-authorities-and-featured-a3557001.html

 

 

Look at the state of that picture. They actually unveil an IS flag in Regents Park. Should have been thrown in jail for that alone.

 

 

Another "known" who wasn't dealt with by our system for all the soundbite talk of "enough". Jail won't help, quite the contrary as has been so clearly shown and so many times. Our jails have been seen to serve as radicalisation centres,.     

 

      

[Thracian]

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

Er no actually the opposite. 

Explain by all means. 

[Fox92]

1 minute ago, Thracian said:

Another "known" who wasn't dealt for all the talk of "enough". Jail won't help, quite the contrary as has been so clearly shown and so many times. Our jails have been seen to serve as radicalisation centres,.     

 

      

True but when I meant "jail" I meant never letting them out. Ever.

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Explain by all means. 

I'd love to but there's a brick wall over there just begging for some headbutting. 

[Thracian]

Just now, Fox92 said:

True but when I meant "jail" I meant never letting them out. Ever.

Times one offender by lots and the bill becomes enormous. I'd rather employ doctors and nurses with the money...or do something that served a positive purpose for society.   

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Times one offender by lots and the bill becomes enormous. I'd rather employ doctors and nurses with the money...or do something that served a positive purpose for society.   

 

So, we're placing material value on a human life then, even if that life is a death-worshipping scumbag?

[Thracian]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

I'd love to but there's a brick wall over there just begging for some headbutting. 

You sure you're still not recovering from your last dose of frustration? 

[Thracian]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

So, we're placing material value on a human life then, even if that life is a death-worshipping scumbag?

While we actually do that constantly, I'd be spending money more purposefully, and with a measurably beneficial effect on many human lives, one would hope.

 

How the offender's life turned out I wouldn't much bother about so long as they didn't continue to impact adversely impact on others. Human rights with human responsibility really.    

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, Thracian said:

While we actually do that constantly, I'd be spending money more purposefully, and with a measurably beneficial effect on many human lives, one would hope.

 

How the offender's life turned out I wouldn't much bother about so long as they didn't continue to impact adversely impact on others. Human rights with human responsibility really.    

 

So locking them up in jail (and possibly going in for some Clockwork Orange-style rehab to see if they can be helped and to see what information we can get) for the rest of their lives would be equally viable, except that it might (there's a debate on that score) cost more money.

 

You're welcome to your view of giving them the chop (or the rope) on account of it being cheaper, but I'm not buying it, sorry.

[Rincewind]

Are there barn doors and horses at the prison we will send these offenders to? You might have to search for the horse if its escaped.

[nnfox]

Locking them up forever won't work.  As alluded to, prison is often a place where radicalisation takes place.  Lots of prisoners of other faiths (or no faith at all) convert to Islam in prison as it gets them out five times a day to pray.  If you lock these people up for life, they just become life long teachers of hate.

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

So locking them up in jail (and possibly going in for some Clockwork Orange-style rehab to see if they can be helped and to see what information we can get) for the rest of their lives would be equally viable, except that it might (there's a debate on that score) cost more money.

 

You're welcome to your view of giving them the chop (or the rope) on account of it being cheaper, but I'm not buying it, sorry.

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

So, we're placing material value on a human life then, even if that life is a death-worshipping scumbag?

I'd be spending money more purposefully and with a measurably beneficial effect of many human lives, one would hope.  How the offender's life turned out I wouldn't much bother about so long as they didn't continue to impact adversely impact on others. Human rights with human responsibility really.    

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

So locking them up in jail (and possibly going in for some Clockwork Orange-style rehab to see if they can be helped and to see what information we can get) for the rest of their lives would be equally viable, except that it might (there's a debate on that score) cost more money.

 

You're welcome to your view of giving them the chop (or the rope) on account of it being cheaper, but I'm not buying it, sorry.

 

 

How keen you seem to misunderstand me. I'm not a fundamentalist Muslim. I have no belief in or desire to kill, maim or torture people - men, women or children - and am not one to turn to The Bible or any other man-written or transcribed scripture into an excuse for doing it either. I don't believe in man-made religion or its public promotion.   

 

Religion has been a vehicle for acquiring power and control throughout history and has been constantly manipulated for that end and to the cost of countless lives. The body count is appalling and shames the very concept of goodness.    

 

To remind you,  I was wholly against the Iraq war before it started. I was wholly against Twin Towers retaliation save for commemorating the killing of those innocents with good works way of communal orchards, theatres, youth clubs and so on.

 

I also abhor our seemingly hypocritical actions in the Middle East these last years and the more so for their having no logical end nor even the chance they might provide any lasting solution to pacifying zealous people who seem to feed off hatred - both for non-conformers within Islam and others who don't accept their dictates.

 

And so it has been for centuries and not just relating to the Muslim faiths either. 

 

My solutions concerning crime would be flexible but would not involve either torture, execution nor, I'd hope, protracted incarceration .

 

Justice would also be swifter than today because laws would be simpler and the system much more malleable and related to circumstances,  consequences and the desired outcome relating to this country and the people affected.

 

    .