Incident at London Bridge

[Thracian]

7 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

I think the police have done a fantastic job and the speed that they responded the other day saved countless lives ...    I couldn't believe how quickly they did it.  The security forces have done a great job too in stopping so many of these things before they even got started and lives were lost.     Sorry mate but the bobby on the beat would have had no impact at all on this problem.     The culprits are our political leaders who go diving into other countries and don't realise that somewhere down the line the rest of us pay for it in blood.  Only as an example ....    I don't know how Tony Blair sleeps at night.

Spot on. 

[LiberalFox]

18 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

 

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/17/leaked-report-aggressive-islamist-agenda-birmingham-schools

 

I'm not sure what point you are making. I don't think anyone wants schools hijacked by religious extremists. If it were up to me we wouldn't have faith schools in this country and I'd make it a lot harder for religious groups to be involved in the academy system (a system which I'm suspicious of anyway). 

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I'm not sure what point you are making. I don't think anyone wants schools hijacked by religious extremists. If it were up to me we wouldn't have faith schools in this country and I'd make it a lot harder for religious groups to be involved in the academy system (a system which I'm suspicious of anyway). 

My point is that they are targetted by extremists and some kids are not left to learn to think for themselves. At home, at school, in church, in prison, at their youth clubs or anywhere else they might congregate and be vulnerable. Many, many Muslims are sick of it too. Some have come here to be clear of the extremists and genuinely want a secular society where everyone is free to live and worship in the way they choose. Yet still the extremists eat away at them.     

[LiberalFox]

7 minutes ago, Thracian said:

My point is that they are targetted by extremists and some kids are not left to learn to think for themselves. 

 

It doesn't sound too difficult to stop schools being taken over by extremists to be honest. Same with prisons. Parents need to take responsibility for not sending their kids to extremist youth clubs and places of worship. 

[LiberalFox]

11 minutes ago, Thracian said:

On the question of security cameras their evidence is quickly utilised after virtually every terrorist event including the latest one at the Borough Market and the one before that at the Houses of Parliament. They are very much there as a deterent and to gather information about major incidents. 

 

Regarding education I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately as my link shows concerning Birmingham schools there are those who think differently and wish to install their own agenda...and I very much doubt the situation was or is unique.  The attack on our own systems and way of life is organised and ongoing. Even moderate Muslims are avoiding going to mosques out of concerns about potential radicalisation of their youngsters.

 

This is a bit out of date but paints the picture fairly clearly and the reasons moderate Muslims have developed concerns about the threat to their youngsters.

 

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2842/radicalization-british-muslims

   

 

So really the security cameras are just an effective policing tool? 

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

It's been stated from the police side that the reduction of community police has had no impact on the security situation. And the once reduced level of armed officers has been rectified a year or so ago.  There's every indication that if the police need to react to what they see as a changed threat they will get what they require. Corbyn is just being opportunistic and in another less opportune moment would have been moaning for fewer armed officers. He's already opposed a shoot to kill policy.     

I don't believe that. That's a statement being pushed from someone at the top.  If you stick a 1000 coppers in every town throughout the country, we'd be living in a far more secure society, that's just common sense.   

[Thracian]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I'm not sure what point you are making. I don't think anyone wants schools hijacked by religious extremists. If it were up to me we wouldn't have faith schools in this country and I'd make it a lot harder for religious groups to be involved in the academy system (a system which I'm suspicious of anyway). 

I wouldn't have public practice of any faith or religion. It should be a private matter and the world would be better for it. As I've said many, many times, religion is just a means by which men establish power and control over people.  For me stealing a childs right to believe what he comes to choose is as bad as stealing his phone or his football boots. My sons have never been to church in their lives save for weddings and funerals but they are all decent and trustworthy human beings. Faith in God or goodness doesn't need local agents.    

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

So really the security cameras are just an effective policing tool? 

Bit like speed cameras. Problem is they don't catch drink drivers. There's a thought, why not stick a security camera in every mosque. Nothing to hide and all that!

[Thracian]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I don't believe that. That's a statement being pushed from someone at the top.  If you stick a 1000 coppers in every town throughout the country, we'd be living in a far more secure society, that's just common sense.   

If they came at Diane Abbott's price why not 2000 per town? 

[Jon the Hat]

We need to stop going over the mistakes of Iraq etc and think about solutions.  The reality is there is no right or wrong answer in Syria, in Libya etc, get involved or don't there are consequences which can be twisted by our enemies.

we can beat ourselves up over the past or prepare ourselves for a few rough years taking this on.  

We also have to reflect on the success of not having another7/7 or Paris style attack with automatic weapons and bombs, but limiting these idiots to vans and knives.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We need to stop going over the mistakes of Iraq etc and think about solutions.  The reality is there is no right or wrong answer in Syria, in Libya etc, get involved or don't there are consequences which can be twisted by our enemies.

we can beat ourselves up over the past or prepare ourselves for a few rough years taking this on.  

We also have to reflect on the success of not having another7/7 or Paris style attack with automatic weapons and bombs, but limiting these idiots to vans and knives.

 

Has Manchester been forgotten already?

[Jon the Hat]

Meanwhile this shite about police cuts is opportunistic imo.  They shot the ****ers in 8 minutes. This is amazing.  More bobbies on the beat - even if you arm every one of them, wouldn't really help I don't believe.

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We need to stop going over the mistakes of Iraq etc and think about solutions.  The reality is there is no right or wrong answer in Syria, in Libya etc, get involved or don't there are consequences which can be twisted by our enemies.

we can beat ourselves up over the past or prepare ourselves for a few rough years taking this on.  

We also have to reflect on the success of not having another7/7 or Paris style attack with automatic weapons and bombs, but limiting these idiots to vans and knives.

The only way i can see of being able to do this is by having armed security forces on our streets. You can't educate someone who is willing to blow themselves up in the name of a cause.

 

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Has Manchester been forgotten already?

One suicide bomber is not the same fortunately as multiple coordinated attackers with weapons and bombs.  We would have seen ten times the fatalities in Manchester had that been the case.

[Voll Blau]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Dirty? Filthy? Careful your racism is showing.

He does it in every single thread like this. Amazing he's still allowed to post.

 

Plus, as per, he's factually wrong. British born again by the looks of things - this is our problem.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Meanwhile this shite about police cuts is opportunistic imo.  They shot the ****ers in 8 minutes. This is amazing.  More bobbies on the beat - even if you arm every one of them, wouldn't really help I don't believe.

Yes they did, 8 minutes too late though. What do we do, wait for next terrorist attack and then say well done, we managed to kill them in 5 minutes. What if one of them blows himself up at a concert again but takes a couple of thousand with him. No-one to congratulate then is there, because it's already too late. 

[LiberalFox]

15 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Bit like speed cameras. Problem is they don't catch drink drivers. There's a thought, why not stick a security camera in every mosque. Nothing to hide and all that!

 

I think our country's handling of drink driving is relatively good. We have a fairly good balance between enforcement, social attitude and liberty. I'd go for something similar regarding terrorism. 

[Thracian]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

We need to stop going over the mistakes of Iraq etc and think about solutions.  The reality is there is no right or wrong answer in Syria, in Libya etc, get involved or don't there are consequences which can be twisted by our enemies.

we can beat ourselves up over the past or prepare ourselves for a few rough years taking this on.  

We also have to reflect on the success of not having another7/7 or Paris style attack with automatic weapons and bombs, but limiting these idiots to vans and knives.

Much tougher laws allowing much quicker action. And proper people on the door.

 

If in doubt, keep em out, whatever their faith, wherever they're from and whatever reason/s there are to be concerned.

 

Can't see anything especially hard or unfair about it but the will's not there - even as young kids are being buried for nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 

     

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

 

I think our country's handling of drink driving is relatively good. We have a fairly good balance between enforcement, social attitude and liberty. I'd go for something similar regarding terrorism. 

The problem is we still have drink drivers.

[Countryfox]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The only way i can see of being able to do this is by having armed security forces on our streets. You can't educate someone who is willing to blow themselves up in the name of a cause.

 

 Stop the education ...   We know that a high percentage of this 'education' is at mosques, via social media and in prisons ...    Use everything at our disposal and stop it.   Leave those sad old fvckin bastards that preach hate (and never blow themselves up !) to wither and die.   

[LiberalFox]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Meanwhile this shite about police cuts is opportunistic imo.  They shot the ****ers in 8 minutes. This is amazing.  More bobbies on the beat - even if you arm every one of them, wouldn't really help I don't believe.

 

I don't think calling it opportunistic is the right word. They've faced cuts and now the government is saying what a wonderful job they are doing and making it sound as though the government is providing more resources than they are. 

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Thracian said:

Much tougher laws allowing much quicker action. And proper people on the door.

 

If in doubt, keep em out, whatever their faith, wherever they're from and whatever reason/s there are to be concerned.

 

Can't see anything especially hard or unfair about it but the will's not there - even as young kids are being buried for nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 

     

 

 

Thrac, you are banging on about keeping them out, but that ship sailed 40 years ago mate, this problem is here in our midst, closing the door after the horse bolted won't help.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

 

I don't think calling it opportunistic is the right word. They've faced cuts and now the government is saying what a wonderful job they are doing and making it sound as though the government is providing more resources than they are. 

Moving resources when you have a crisis is perfectly sensible, and I think cancelling leave is something they have always done no?

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 Stop the education ...   We know that a high percentage of this 'education' is at mosques, via social media and in prisons ...    Use everything at our disposal and stop it.   Leave those sad old fvckin bastards that preach hate (and never blow themselves up !) to wither and die.   

The education happens in places like Syria, Lybia places we are bombing as well as over here so education is not going to stop it, got to wipe out the source now or withdraw from Muslim country's and see if that stops it

[Thracian]

25 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

So really the security cameras are just an effective policing tool? 

They've always been that, it's the scale that's changed and their necessity with regards to terrorism rather than anything akin to being drunk and disorderly. Along with all sorts of other things in relation to terrorism at airports, stations, public arenas etc, etc. And you think there's been no change.