Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Sharpe's Fox]

31 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Has a marksman just shot him?

no that's the handle

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

no that's the handle

It does look a bit like blood gushing from his head, I'd have put the handle on the back of the head tbh. 

[Guest MattP]

9 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

You are well and truly off your rocker if you think the BBC is independent in its broadcasting, irrespective of whether it should be or not. 

 

Listening to you rattle on about Farage like he's some kind of squeaky clean guy is laughable. 

 

The guy is an out and out cvnt and the BBC is a corporation fulls of cvnts with agendas as well. Both as bad as each other so stop pretending that you're outraged by the BBC's actions on this.

 

You probably feel the same about me but **** me you're insufferable. I've posted on a lot of forums over the years with a lot of annoying posters but you really take the biscuit. 

Yet again you seem to completely misread what I'm saying, you do this everytime.

 

I said the BBC should be neutral, not that it is.

 

I have made no comment at all about Farage bring squeaky clean. 

 

Everyone should be outraged when news organisations make things up.

[Kopfkino]

Fair play to the kid, not bad for Kings student. His writing and grammar leave a lot to be desired though.

[lifted*fox]

 

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Everyone should be outraged when news organisations make things up.

 

And when politicians and their campaign managers make up blatant lies to swing elections - should we not be outraged by that as well? 

 

I see bullshit newspapers / TV news (BBC included) putting out biased, fictitious stories day in / day out - yeah annoying but anyone with half a brain should know to take media with a pinch of salt. 

 

Should we not be more outraged that politicians, people who run our country, spend our money, have the power to change our lives for better or worse are lying through their ****ing teeth day in / day out? 

 

That scummy cvnt Farage pointing at that ****ing poster b2b Boris' bullshit 350m bus played a huge part in swinging a life changing (for all of us) vote. 

 

I'd say I can't fathom how you can be angry at one and give the other a pass but I can, because the poster / bus shit swung it in your favour.

 

Sorry, I shouldn't make it personal but you get under my ****ing skin man. 

 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

What's your point?

Pardon the lack of clarity.

 

The implication here that conservatives don't smear in exactly the same way as Farage has been seemingly smeared here, and the hypocrisy displayed when such smearing is ignored...that's what gets to me. I didn't see the same outcry when the Trump affiliated media skewered Hillary (and still do), for example.

 

Of course your meaning may be exactly that (both sides do it), in which case some clarification would be welcomed.

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Pardon the lack of clarity.

 

The implication here that conservatives don't smear in exactly the same way as Farage has been seemingly smeared here, and the hypocrisy displayed when such smearing is ignored...that's what gets to me. I didn't see the same outcry when the Trump affiliated media skewered Hillary (and still do), for example.

 

Of course your meaning may be exactly that (both sides do it), in which case some clarification would be welcomed.

Political parties throw mud, that's all part of the game. It's not always fair or dignified but they don't claim to be impartial.

 

You quite often criticise Fox News for being biased and sensationalist, how is this different?

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

And when politicians and their campaign managers make up blatant lies to swing elections - should we not be outraged by that as well? 

 

I see bullshit newspapers / TV news (BBC included) putting out biased, fictitious stories day in / day out - yeah annoying but anyone with half a brain should know to take media with a pinch of salt. 

 

Should we not be more outraged that politicians, people who run our country, spend our money, have the power to change our lives for better or worse are lying through their ****ing teeth day in / day out? 

 

That scummy cvnt Farage pointing at that ****ing poster b2b Boris' bullshit 350m bus played a huge part in swinging a life changing (for all of us) vote. 

 

I'd say I can't fathom how you can be angry at one and give the other a pass but I can, because the poster / bus shit swung it in your favour.

 

Sorry, I shouldn't make it personal but you get under my ****ing skin man. 

I couldn't care less what you think of me.

 

There were lies on both sides in the referendum. You seem to have not bothered to mention those told by the remain campaign. 

 

Where was the emergency budget, the immediate 300,000 job losses, the refugee camps arriving in Kent etc etc - all bullshit also intended to swing a vote.

 

But the point stands, the BBC is supposed to be independent, the idea they get a pass because you don't like Nigel Farage is laughable.

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

Fair play to the kid, not bad for Kings student. His writing and grammar leave a lot to be desired though.

Nothing is more annoying than misuse of the reflexive pronoun. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Political parties throw mud, that's all part of the game. It's not always fair or dignified but they don't claim to be impartial.

 

You quite often criticise Fox News for being biased and sensationalist, how is this different?

It isn't any different, just as MSNBC et al do the same. I don't think there's a media agency on the planet consistent in its reporting (though the Times comes close IMO).

 

I just find it curious that attention is being drawn to this particular matter and not others of similar type. Or should I just write that off as people being inconsistent?

[lifted*fox]

They don't get a pass from me mate. I find everyone as despicable as the other. They're all ****ing lying idiots - Tories, Labour, the media. Burn the ****ing lot of them to the ground imo. 

 

So no passes from me. I just happen to find Labour the lesser evil. 

 

I'd happily watch a bullet blast the back of Farage's puny little head out though. Double points if he's standing in front of May and it whips through her as well. High Score if it catches Boris along the way. 

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

It isn't any different, just as MSNBC et al do the same. I don't think there's a media agency on the planet consistent in its reporting (though the Times comes close IMO).

 

I just find it curious that attention is being drawn to this particular matter and not others of similar type. Or should I just write that off as people being inconsistent?

A big deal was made about an increase in racist attacks supposedly caused by the Brexit vote. A window was smashed in a Tapas Bar, that was blamed on Brexit, turns out it was a burglary. Some graffiti outside a Polish centre (in Polish) was blamed on Brexit, turns out it was against a rightwing party in Poland. And now there's this, Brexiteers had blood on their hands and it turns out that was bullshit too. Perhaps it wasn't deliberate bias, it was probably the case that the reporters were so anti Brexit they just wanted to believe it was true.

 

Now if the report had been true and this was a brexit related racist attack I've no doubt that this would have been the main story on the news. They've been proven wrong and they should have the decency to admit it.

[Guest MattP]

10 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

I'd happily watch a bullet blast the back of Farage's puny little head out though. Double points if he's standing in front of May and it whips through her as well. High Score if it catches Boris along the way. 

I think you could do with seeing a doctor and seeking some help, writing stuff like this really isn't normal behaviour. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

A big deal was made about an increase in racist attacks supposedly caused by the Brexit vote. A window was smashed in a Tapas Bar, that was blamed on Brexit, turns out it was a burglary. Some graffiti outside a Polish centre (in Polish) was blamed on Brexit, turns out it was against a rightwing party in Poland. And now there's this, Brexiteers had blood on their hands and it turns out that was bullshit too. Perhaps it wasn't deliberate bias, it was probably the case that the reporters were so anti Brexit they just wanted to believe it was true.

 

Now if the report had been true and this was a brexit related racist attack I've no doubt that this would have been the main story on the news. They've been proven wrong and they should have the decency to admit it.

I sincerely also hope they correct themselves and apologise too..as soon as Fox News, Breitbart and the rest consistently do the same for the things they've reported that have later been proven wrong.

 

Honestly, I think I'm on the same page here regarding media accountability - I just want it to be consistent.

[lifted*fox]

Yes mate, disturbing stuff - I'm surely going to be the one that pulls the trigger. Or it's just tongue in cheek blasé shit-posting. 

 

There's Webbo showing his support, right on cue. Tory friend! 

[The Floyd]

38 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

 

And when politicians and their campaign managers make up blatant lies to swing elections - should we not be outraged by that as well? 

 

I see bullshit newspapers / TV news (BBC included) putting out biased, fictitious stories day in / day out - yeah annoying but anyone with half a brain should know to take media with a pinch of salt. 

 

Should we not be more outraged that politicians, people who run our country, spend our money, have the power to change our lives for better or worse are lying through their ****ing teeth day in / day out? 

 

That scummy cvnt Farage pointing at that ****ing poster b2b Boris' bullshit 350m bus played a huge part in swinging a life changing (for all of us) vote. 

 

I'd say I can't fathom how you can be angry at one and give the other a pass but I can, because the poster / bus shit swung it in your favour.

 

Sorry, I shouldn't make it personal but you get under my ****ing skin man. 

 

Neither played a huge part at all. Immigration was central to the leave campaign's argument long before the poster existed and no one voted to leave the European Union solely so the NHS could potentially gain a little extra funding. 

[lifted*fox]

Just now, The Floyd said:

Neither played a huge part at all. Immigration was central to the leave campaign's argument long before the poster existed and no one voted to leave the European Union solely so the NHS could potentially gain a little extra funding. 

 

Nobody? Really? 

 

Pretty sure I heard numerous ill-informed members of the public dribbling on about it in TV interviews when questioned as to why they wanted to vote leave, actually. 

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I sincerely also hope they correct themselves and apologise too..as soon as Fox News, Breitbart and the rest consistently do the same for the things they've reported that have later been proven wrong.

 

Honestly, I think I'm on the same page here regarding media accountability - I just want it to be consistent.

Fox News, Breitbart etc are private enterprises. 

 

They aren't funded by what is effectively a tax on the whole population. The BBC is and that's why they are going to held to account.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Fox News, Breitbart etc are private enterprises. 

 

They aren't funded by what is effectively a tax on the whole population. The BBC is and that's why they are going to held to account.

Fair enough. AFAIC bias is bias however the broadcaster is funded - BS is not any less misleading and/or potentially damaging just because people voluntarily pay to hear/read/see it - tobacco companies contributing to media articles showed us that one a long time ago.

Edited 20 September 2017 by leicsmac

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough. AFAIC bias is bias however the broadcaster is funded - BS is not any less misleading and/or potentially damaging just because people voluntarily pay to hear/read/see it - tobacco companies contributing to media articles showed us that one a long time ago.

We don't have to buy that media if we deem it to be biased, the BBC is different.

Edited 20 September 2017 by Strokes

[lifted*fox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough. AFAIC bias is bias however the broadcaster is funded - BS is not any less misleading and/or potentially damaging just because people voluntarily pay to hear/read/see it - tobacco companies contributing to media articles showed us that one a long time ago.

 

I don't even want to pay the ****ing TV license but there's no option. I don't watch a single second of BBC news or TV but they've got everybody by the balls. It's probably one of the biggest forced rip-offs ever. 

[The Floyd]

2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Nobody? Really? 

 

Pretty sure I heard numerous ill-informed members of the public dribbling on about it in TV interviews when questioned as to why they wanted to vote leave, actually. 

Notice that I carefully used the word solely. Even if what you're saying is true, it's anecdotal at best and really not reflective of either Farage's finger or the bus slogan playing a 'huge part' in the result. 

[lifted*fox]

Just now, The Floyd said:

Notice that I carefully used the word solely. Even if what you're saying is true, it's anecdotal at best and really not reflective of either Farage's finger or the bus slogan playing a 'huge part' in the result. 

There's a lot of people out there who aren't able to make well-informed decisions unless they are spoon fed shouty slogans and big pictures. I'd imagine there was a significant portion of the population sat on the fence who then saw that and thought 'yeah, too right, why pay the EU 350m a ****ing week when we can put it in the NHS' or 'yeah, Farage is right - look at the queues of ****ing immigrants pouring in, they make my life worse!' and marched down to the polling station and made their vote because of those lies. In fact, since the occasion there's been plenty of people who've admitted as much. 

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

There's a lot of people out there who aren't able to make well-informed decisions unless they are spoon fed shouty slogans and big pictures. I'd imagine there was a significant portion of the population sat on the fence who then saw that and thought 'yeah, too right, why pay the EU 350m a ****ing week when we can put it in the NHS' or 'yeah, Farage is right - look at the queues of ****ing immigrants pouring in, they make my life worse!' and marched down to the polling station and made their vote because of those lies. In fact, since the occasion there's been plenty of people who've admitted as much. 

What about the people on the fence who believed the big increase in unemployment or the recession in 2016 or the Jungle camp being moved to Kent?

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We don't have to buy that media if we deem it to be biased, the BBC is different.

 

3 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

I don't even want to pay the ****ing TV license but there's no option. I don't watch a single second of BBC news or TV but they've got everybody by the balls. It's probably one of the biggest forced rip-offs ever. 

I don't deny either of those arguments. It's an obligatory payment and some folks get annoyed at that.

 

My point is that bias is bias regardless of the way a media group is funded and though you can choose not to find ones you think are biased, they get funded anyway - and in the internet age it's reasonably possible to fund a "news" site with little to no voluntary contributions at all (just need ad revenue). So even if you don't fund them, the misinformation gets out there and has an effect on the political process and society in general - whether you choose to pay or not.

 

The market argument doesn't really apply here, not any more, IMO. The Beeb being voluntary paid isn't going to stop other networks spouting rubbish with not a lot of accountability.