Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 Just now, Strokes said: I would rather be part of a new soviet republic than part of the EU, so maybe you are right. Where is my vodka? Надеюсь, вам понравился ваш чай. А теперь возвращайся к работе. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 17 minutes ago, MattP said: Speaking of pro- Russian trolls interfering in UK democracy, here's an obvious one https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/03/nato-peace-threat-ukraine-military-conflict MattP you truly are the What-about-ism King of Kings!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 Just now, Fox Ulike said: MattP you truly are the What-about-ism King of Kings!! Look at the author of the piece and you'll get the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 10 minutes ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that Corbyn's better than expected result in the election was down to Russian interference? Don’t be ridiculous webbo, you can’t turn the weapon back that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 31 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: OK but if you've been duped then you would think that the right decision had been made! That, after all, is the purpose of the Russian Troll houses - to make you think that Brexit was the right decision. Do you ever worry that you're one of the sheep baaaaa-ing? Don't you question why the Russians would want the UK out of the EU? After all, I doubt that Putin funded the interference in UK democracy out of the goodness of his heart... I don't care what the Russians want tbh. Brexit WAS the right choice for me. There are going to be winners and losers over it, and I am in the winner column. That isn't sheep-talk, that is cold hard fact. Need to keep grasping them straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 20 minutes ago, MattP said: Highly likely? Do you really think potential Clinton voters went to Trump because of fake Russian tweets? I'm finding the whole thing a bit laughable now. I've never met anyone has changed an opinion from Twitter, let alone the 1.4 odd million you would need to change the result. Polls on the EU ref have been close for years. But the point stands, even if they did interfere, it wasn't near to the level of foreign intervention that the remain side encouraged and invited. I don't think that potential Clinton voters went to Trump, I think that potential Clinton voters didn't turn up at all - if the turnout is high, Clinton wins, it's that simple. She still won the popular vote by over 2 million, remember. Trump did enough to mobilise the voting bloc that he knew would vote for him and pick up the working class votes in crucial states by appealing to populism What Russian influence could well have done was helped divide the Clinton voting bloc in two by insisting on the "x or Bust" approach and carefully delegitimising whoever the winning candidate for the Dems was, while giving the appearance of much more support for Trump throughout the Internet than there actually was and so encouraging floating voters that a lot of people believed in his cause and that voting for him was a good thing. I'm not saying that it's a cast-iron certainty that it happened - it'll never be proved, after all - and there's no denying that Hillary ran an awful campaign, but in this digital age it's not too difficult to sway opinions en masse given the right influence. And if they did interfere, their level of influence was obviously greater - because they won. Success of objectives is the metric on which such things are measured, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 6 minutes ago, MattP said: What on earth? How do you explain my journey from being a young Lib Dem voter to Tory Eurosceptic then? Traveling the World had more influence on my politics than any newspaper. Ive not met anyone whose political position changes so significantly on a major issue from social media retweets. If you have I'd get some new friends capable of thinkig for themselves. Just because something is outside of your personal experience, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You seem to be set in your opinions, and inflexible in accepting anything that remotely conflicts with what you've already decided. But, most people change their views according to new facts and new information becoming available. Twitter is one part of the media. What I said was: We haven't arrived at our political opinions completely independently of what we read in the newspapers, on TV and on the Internet. Everything influences you. Social media has a big influence on the way people think and subsequently vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 5 minutes ago, Innovindil said: I don't care what the Russians want tbh. Brexit WAS the right choice for me. There are going to be winners and losers over it, and I am in the winner column. That isn't sheep-talk, that is cold hard fact. Need to keep grasping them straws. Is self-interest a universal guiding star, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 6 minutes ago, Innovindil said: I don't care what the Russians want tbh. Brexit WAS the right choice for me. There are going to be winners and losers over it, and I am in the winner column. That isn't sheep-talk, that is cold hard fact. Need to keep grasping them straws. What did you win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 22 minutes ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that Corbyn's better than expected result in the election was down to Russian interference? Fair point. They might not be actively backing any particular party or position but rather seeking just to fuel divisions within the country. I'm still not entirely sure of their motivations for doing so. What do they actually benefit from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Is self-interest a universal guiding star, then? Universal? Of course not. For me? Certainly. 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: What did you win? A somewhat large payrise and higher job security than I've ever had in my working life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 19 hours ago, toddybad said: No it isn't bullshit. They set out a timetable that we agreed to as well as their expectations. We've spent months trying to divide and rule and failing. The government had made an absolute mess of things so far. I repeat, there are over 700 agreements with other countries we access as part of the EU. We will need to negotiate all of them again and without the strength in numbers. In fact, from a position of weakness. And you believe that's doable dept the fact we can't even agree a bill after months of talking to our closest partners. How many of those agreements have any relevance at all to UK interests? The ones about exporting Pasta to the Gambia I can probably skip. Camembert to Mexico? Nah. Importation of straight bananas from the Caribbean? Don't care. This only demonstrates the level of bureaucracy in the EU, and how much of it has no value to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I don't think that potential Clinton voters went to Trump, I think that potential Clinton voters didn't turn up at all - if the turnout is high, Clinton wins, it's that simple. She still won the popular vote by over 2 million, remember. Trump did enough to mobilise the voting bloc that he knew would vote for him and pick up the working class votes in crucial states by appealing to populism What Russian influence could well have done was helped divide the Clinton voting bloc in two by insisting on the "x or Bust" approach and carefully delegitimising whoever the winning candidate for the Dems was, while giving the appearance of much more support for Trump throughout the Internet than there actually was and so encouraging floating voters that a lot of people believed in his cause and that voting for him was a good thing. I'm not saying that it's a cast-iron certainty that it happened - it'll never be proved, after all - and there's no denying that Hillary ran an awful campaign, but in this digital age it's not too difficult to sway opinions en masse given the right influence. And if they did interfere, their level of influence was obviously greater - because they won. Success of objectives is the metric on which such things are measured, after all. That's debatable, it depends where that higher turnout was, if it was along the rustbelt Trump would have won ever more clearly, if it was in New York or California obviously Clinton would increase the popular vote even more. Trump, like Leave, brought out a lot of people to vote that had either never bothered before or hadn't for a long time, those are often the people that can win elections, people should have figured out here when it was looking like a 70%+ turnout that people had come out to do something. There is no point having drinks or dinner parties in London and Los Angeles ful of people who vote for Clinton/Remain and then start wondering why the rest of country didn't fall in line, both sides in the mentioned votes across the pond should take a look at themselves and ask why they lost, but a lot of them aren't the sort of people who'll do that as they are convinced they are right no matter what, so they'll resort to absolutely anything and that results in this absurdity now we are looking at in blaming troll farms in St Petersburg rather than the Hillary not bothering to visit Wisconsin once or BSE forgetting everyone in the country has a vote that counts equally. The irony of this is the streotypes usually from these sort of people is that the elderly were the force behind Brexit and the towns that have barely come out of the stone age were behind Trump, now the same people want to believe that demographic was engaged in Twitter and so into it politically they were following Russian bots, I just wish they could see how ridiculous they look. As I say though, even if they did influence it. How can they complain over here when David Cameron asked America and it's President to try and influence the referendum, the amazing thing is they almost seem oblivious to it. P.S (I absolutely love the fact I've got friends who voted Remain and Corbyn, I couldn't imagine spending all my time with people who had exactly the same political position as me) Edited 15 November 2017 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 Productivity (output per hour) jumps in Q3. Now rising at the fastest rate in six years. More than reverses the falls in Q1 and Q2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: Productivity (output per hour) jumps in Q3. Now rising at the fastest rate in six years. More than reverses the falls in Q1 and Q2 This is pretty much all down to me. I've really raised my game lately - worked through a couple of lunches, had an energy drink etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 22 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Universal? Of course not. For me? Certainly. A somewhat large payrise and higher job security than I've ever had in my working life. You work in one of the Russian Troll Houses then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 4 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Universal? Of course not. For me? Certainly. Fair enough. I think that it's either a good thing for everyone or for no one, though - but I might be wrong. 1 minute ago, MattP said: That's debatable, it depends where that higher turnout was, if it was along the rustbelt Trump would have won ever more clearly, if it was in New York or California obviously Clinton would increase the popular vote even more. Trump, like Leave, brought out a lot of people to vote that had either never bothered before or hadn't for a long time, those are often the people that can win elections, people should have figured out here when it was looking like a 70%+ turnout that people had come out to do something. There is no point having drinks or dinner parties in London and Los Angeles ful of people who vote for Clinton/Remain and then start wondering why the rest of country didn't fall in line, both sides in the mentioned votes across the pond should take a look at themselves and ask why they lost, but a lot of them aren't the sort of people who'll do that as they are convinced they are right no matter what, so they'll resort to absolutely anything and that results in this absurdity now we are looking at in blaming troll farms in St Petersburg rather than the Hillary not bothering to visit Wisconsin once or BSE forgetting everyone in the country has a vote that counts equally. The irony of this is the streotypes usually from these sort of people is that the elderly were the force behind Brexit and the towns that have barely come out of the stone age were behind Trump, now the same people want to believe that demographic was engaged in Twitter and so into it politically they were following Russian bots, I just wish they could see how ridiculous they look. As I say though, even if they did influence it. How can they complain over here when David Cameron asked America and it's President to try and influence the referendum, the amazing thing is they almost seem oblivious to it. If turnout is higher in general Hillary wins Florida, and Penn (and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin), and that's enough for her. Turnout was key - Trump mobilised his voting bloc, Hillary didn't. Whether there was foreign involvement that caused the turnout boost/decline is of course a matter for debate - like I said, I'm prepared to at least entertain the idea but I'm sure it'll never be proved even if it did happen. I'm hoping there is a certain amount of introspection from the Dems (their own culpability should be pretty freely admitted), but (and I think we've mentioned this before) regardless of all this, people's anger (whether manufactured from another source or not) doesn't give them the right to attempt to screw over everyone else and the future by voting for a leader who has no regard for anything other than short-term self interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 18 minutes ago, MattP said: That's debatable, it depends where that higher turnout was, if it was along the rustbelt Trump would have won ever more clearly, if it was in New York or California obviously Clinton would increase the popular vote even more. Trump, like Leave, brought out a lot of people to vote that had either never bothered before or hadn't for a long time, those are often the people that can win elections, people should have figured out here when it was looking like a 70%+ turnout that people had come out to do something. There is no point having drinks or dinner parties in London and Los Angeles ful of people who vote for Clinton/Remain and then start wondering why the rest of country didn't fall in line, both sides in the mentioned votes across the pond should take a look at themselves and ask why they lost, but a lot of them aren't the sort of people who'll do that as they are convinced they are right no matter what, so they'll resort to absolutely anything and that results in this absurdity now we are looking at in blaming troll farms in St Petersburg rather than the Hillary not bothering to visit Wisconsin once or BSE forgetting everyone in the country has a vote that counts equally. The irony of this is the streotypes usually from these sort of people is that the elderly were the force behind Brexit and the towns that have barely come out of the stone age were behind Trump, now the same people want to believe that demographic was engaged in Twitter and so into it politically they were following Russian bots, I just wish they could see how ridiculous they look. As I say though, even if they did influence it. How can they complain over here when David Cameron asked America and it's President to try and influence the referendum, the amazing thing is they almost seem oblivious to it. P.S (I absolutely love the fact I've got friends who voted Remain and Corbyn, I couldn't imagine spending all my time with people who had exactly the same political position as me) OM holy G!! Correlation v Causation... You are just totally disingenuous! So. The elderly were the force behind Brexit And. Twitter users were influcenced to support Brexit by Russian propaganda. Therefore, the elderly are the main users of Twitter!! Brilliant. Here's another one for you. So. More ice creams are sold in the Summer And. Violent crimes are more likely to occur in hot weather. Therefore, ice cream causes violent behaviour! You couldn't make it up. Although... you just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 14 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: You work in one of the Russian Troll Houses then? Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 Just now, Innovindil said: Of course. Can you get me a job there I reckon i'd be pretty good at that propaganda shiz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 20 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Can you get me a job there I reckon i'd be pretty good at that propaganda shiz! We don't hire lefties, sorry. In Russia we're allowed to discriminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: Productivity (output per hour) jumps in Q3. Now rising at the fastest rate in six years. More than reverses the falls in Q1 and Q2 Ons also confirmed that wages have fallen for the 6th 3 month period in a row. I'm glad you recognise the ons as providing relevant information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said: OM holy G!! Correlation v Causation... You are just totally disingenuous! So. The elderly were the force behind Brexit And. Twitter users were influcenced to support Brexit by Russian propaganda. Therefore, the elderly are the main users of Twitter!! Brilliant. Here's another one for you. So. More ice creams are sold in the Summer And. Violent crimes are more likely to occur in hot weather. Therefore, ice cream causes violent behaviour! You couldn't make it up. Although... you just did. The issue I have with this is that Twitter has a relatively young following. The twittersphere was overwhelmingly for remain and Clinton. Facebook.these days have a much older crowd as the youth have pretty much left it. Facebook was full of leave and Trump propaganda. Much as now, you see far more pro labour stuff on Twitter and more pro tory stuff on Facebook. The two mediums are a little different though. On Twitter you more closely see the content you choose as you tend to follow individuals in the public eye that share your views - so it reinforces opinions rather than changing them. On Facebook you follow your friends/relatives who have a myriad different opinions. You see an awful lot of right wing stuff going round on Facebook. In fact I recognised the post of the young possibly Muslim woman walking past the injured man now reversed to have originated from Russian sources from friends on Facebook. I'm forever kicking friends off my Facebook feed for posting britain first lies. That stuff really has affected people's opinions imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claridge Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 5 hours ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that Corbyn's better than expected result in the election was down to Russian interference? No, it's the lying through his teeth about the money he would spend. Especially to the polly students who can't get a job with their Mickey Mouse degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 15 November 2017 Share Posted 15 November 2017 2 minutes ago, Claridge said: No, it's the lying through his teeth about the money he would spend. Especially to the polly students who can't get a job with their Mickey Mouse degrees There's that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts