Guest Foxin_mad Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 48 minutes ago, toddybad said: I've said it before, immigration is good for the economy, it's a huge mistake that no government has ever clearly fight that corner. If the migrants leave, productivity will go down and the economy will tank. You have said it before but you are incorrect in my opinion. Yes certain skilled immigration is good but low paid is very bad. What evidence do you have to support your theory? Bear in mind I did support remain but the cheap flow of labour from eastern block countries and non equality in living standards is a huge problem for the EU western countries. My theory is the UK businesses refuse to invest in technology. They need to but don't, never have done for a long time. The constant flow of cheap labour may increase productivity slightly because those people work harder, but we are still using out dated tech and methods. All the cheap labour is doing is supporting this and artificially keeping wages low and giving businesses no need to invest in technology. Now if the cheap labour dries up (Brexit?!), and we have full employment if business wants to make money it will have to pay better people more money and if there are no cheap people you will have to invest in tech (eg no students from Poland to pic strawberries = better paid strawberry pickers and maybe a machine that makes the process more efficient). Just my view on it.
winteriscoming Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 2 hours ago, MattP said: The only positive thing was that Terry Christian behaved like such a shitgibbon he stole the headlines. Imo he came across as an arrogant **** who wouldnt listen to anyone elses opinion if it was different to his. No surprise really that hes a man utd fan.
Nick Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, winteriscoming said: Imo he came across as an arrogant **** who wouldnt listen to anyone elses opinion if it was different to his. No surprise really that hes a man utd fan. Yeah, didn't he just - Question time last night pretty muted summed up everything I hate about the political situation in this country. Left and far left shouting a load of the same rhetoric and the right stirring up passion based on pride, hope, nationalism and not a lot of evidence to base their views on. It reminded me of this thread to be honest - no offence to anybody. Oh for some integrity. British politics needs to change in terms of structure from top to bottom. 2
Strokes Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said: Yeah, didn't he just - Question time last night pretty muted summed up everything I hate about the political situation in this country. Left and far left shouting a load of the same rhetoric and the right stirring up passion based on pride, hope, nationalism and not a lot of evidence to base their views on. It reminded me of this thread to be honest - no offence to anybody. Oh for some integrity. British politics needs to change in terms of structure from top to bottom. We don’t often agree in here but this is one of those moments. 1
ealingfox Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 Arse fell out of Question Time years ago when they started inviting Farage on every other week and scraping the barrel for non-political guests to have on. Needs a shake-up really. I only watch it to laugh at the complete disdain Dimbleby has for everyone and everything. 1
winteriscoming Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 Am I right that they had 4 remainers and 1 leave on qt. Again showing how biased bbc is. Enjoyed it a few weeks ago when jacob rees mogg had a go at bbc biased on brexit.
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Don't care about financial forecasts for the parasites and kulaks ect I readily vote for Marxists ffs It comes down to cuts on services or spending on services. I choose the latter
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 3 minutes ago, winteriscoming said: Am I right that they had 4 remainers and 1 leave on qt. Again showing how biased bbc is. Enjoyed it a few weeks ago when jacob rees mogg had a go at bbc biased on brexit. Weren't there more leavers last week? The BBC tries to be neutral. It's why both the right and left complain it's weighted against them.
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: You have said it before but you are incorrect in my opinion. Yes certain skilled immigration is good but low paid is very bad. What evidence do you have to support your theory? Bear in mind I did support remain but the cheap flow of labour from eastern block countries and non equality in living standards is a huge problem for the EU western countries. My theory is the UK businesses refuse to invest in technology. They need to but don't, never have done for a long time. The constant flow of cheap labour may increase productivity slightly because those people work harder, but we are still using out dated tech and methods. All the cheap labour is doing is supporting this and artificially keeping wages low and giving businesses no need to invest in technology. Now if the cheap labour dries up (Brexit?!), and we have full employment if business wants to make money it will have to pay better people more money and if there are no cheap people you will have to invest in tech (eg no students from Poland to pic strawberries = better paid strawberry pickers and maybe a machine that makes the process more efficient). Just my view on it. The evidence I have is the economic studies that confirm immigration is good for the economy and our wealth. Unfortunately you don't tend to believe economic studies. Edited 9 February 2018 by Guest
David Guiza Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 I genuinely don't understand this 'BBC lefty bias' nonsense. Sure there are 'lefties' within the BBC, but then there are Nick Robinson, Andrew Neil and Paxman all of whom have Tory connections, plus the least famous Bee gee, Robbie Gibb, going straight from the BBC to May's director of communication. Not counting the fact that they are happy to wheel out the red carpet for Farage whenever he fancies his 60 seconds of hate.
Fox Ulike Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 2 hours ago, bovril said: I can't help but feel that all these economic forecasts are kind of missing the point. Even the Brexiteers on here have admitted an economic hit is something they would accept. People voted out for a myriad of different, sometimes contradictory reasons and trying to keep people satisfied with the direction the country's going in will be extremely difficult when opinion is so divided, even within the in / out camps. I don’t agree. There weren’t a myriad of reasons to vote Leave. There were just three: Immigration Sovreignity Economic advantages of non-membership If you suddenly remove one of these three benefits of Leaving, then the whole result becomes invalid. This is what happened on the very morning after the vote when Farage said that the £350m claim was bogus. The economic forecasts are totally relevant because they underline the fact that the objectives for leaving are not going to be met – and therefore there is no mandate to leave the EU, and the referendum result is irrelevant. It’s now only being persued for political purposes. 1
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, toddybad said: Weren't there more leavers last week? The BBC tries to be neutral. It's why both the right and left complain it's weighted against them. Nope. All shows this years have had a pro-remain panel, 4-1 last night, 3-2 last week, 3-2 week before, 4-1 week before and 4-1 week before that. Looking at this the last time we had a pro-Brexit audience was March last year, about 35 episodes ago. (edit this actually 3-3! apologies) 27 March 2017[fn 98] Birmingham, England David Davis, Keir Starmer, Nick Clegg, Suzanne Evans, Melanie Phillips, Alex Salmond - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes 11 January 2018 Islington, England Dominic Raab, Dawn Butler, Gina Miller, Nish Kumar, Piers Morgan 18 January 2018 Hereford, England Margot James, Andy Burnham, Howard Davies, Munira Mirza, Dustin Lance Black 25 January 2018 Dumfries, Scotland Michael Forsyth, Chris Williamson, Fiona Hyslop, Maggie Chapman, Peter Oborne 1 February 2018 Grantham, England Justine Greening, John Mann, Jo Swinson, Miatta Fahnbulleh, Tim Stanley 8 February 2018 Darlington, England Claire Perry, Emily Thornberry, Richard Tice, Rachel Sylvester, Terry Christia 17 minutes ago, David Guiza said: I genuinely don't understand this 'BBC lefty bias' nonsense. Sure there are 'lefties' within the BBC, but then there are Nick Robinson, Andrew Neil and Paxman all of whom have Tory connections, plus the least famous Bee gee, Robbie Gibb, going straight from the BBC to May's director of communication. Not counting the fact that they are happy to wheel out the red carpet for Farage whenever he fancies his 60 seconds of hate. I think Andrew Marr explained it best when he said the BBC has a "cultural left wing" bias rather than a political one, due to the fact it's based in big metropolitan cities, which means it will have more young people, LGTB people, left leaning etc than the national average. Edited 9 February 2018 by MattP
Fox Ulike Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 21 minutes ago, winteriscoming said: Am I right that they had 4 remainers and 1 leave on qt. Again showing how biased bbc is. Enjoyed it a few weeks ago when jacob rees mogg had a go at bbc biased on brexit. That's probably really just the natural ratio of people who want to remain versus those who still believe in Brexit and are prepared to go on TV to support it : 4:1
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) Found one. Last show I can see where we had a pro-Leave QT panel. About 60 episodes ago. Had to go to the most pro-Brexit town in Britain to get it. 29 September 2016 Boston, England Priti Patel, Richard Burgon, Steven Woolfe, Bonnie Greer, Rod Liddle[f Edited 9 February 2018 by MattP
David Guiza Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: I think Andrew Marr explained it best when he said the BBC has a "cultural left wing" bias rather than a political one, due to the fact it's based in big metropolitan cities, which means it will have more young people, LGTB people, left leaning etc than the national average. There are certainly areas of their programme and general messages that are aimed at left leaning, without doubt. However, the hosts of the politically based programming seem to more centre right if anything. Even on the lighter side of things It's only the light relief of the lovely Victoria Coren-Mitchell on Only Connect that sees me through half an hour of Paxman on University Challenge!
Fox Ulike Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Nope. All shows this years have had a pro-remain panel, 4-1 last night, 3-2 last week, 3-2 week before, 4-1 week before and 3-2 week before that. Looking at this the last time we had a pro-Brexit audience was March last year, about 35 episodes ago. 27 March 2017[fn 98] Birmingham, England David Davis, Keir Starmer, Nick Clegg, Suzanne Evans, Melanie Phillips, Alex Salmond - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes 11 January 2018 Islington, England Dominic Raab, Dawn Butler, Gina Miller, Nish Kumar, Piers Morgan 18 January 2018 Hereford, England Margot James, Andy Burnham, Howard Davies, Munira Mirza, Dustin Lance Black 25 January 2018 Dumfries, Scotland Michael Forsyth, Chris Williamson, Fiona Hyslop, Maggie Chapman, Peter Oborne 1 February 2018 Grantham, England Justine Greening, John Mann, Jo Swinson, Miatta Fahnbulleh, Tim Stanley 8 February 2018 Darlington, England Claire Perry, Emily Thornberry, Richard Tice, Rachel Sylvester, Terry Christia I think Andrew Marr explained it best when he said the BBC has a "cultural left wing" bias rather than a political one, due to the fact it's based in big metropolitan cities, which means it will have more young people, LGTB people, left leaning etc than the national average. There just aren't many respectable public people who actually believe in Brexit. There never has been. R 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Found one. Last show I can see where we had a pro-Leave QT panel. About 60 episodes ago. Had to go to the most pro-Brexit town in Britain to get it. 29 September 2016 Boston, England Priti Patel, Richard Burgon, Steven Woolfe, Bonnie Greer, Rod Liddle[f Rod Liddle. Is that the best you can do? Is this the man who said: "a quick update on what the Muslim savages are up to," See my comment above. 1
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 8 minutes ago, MattP said: Nope. All shows this years have had a pro-remain panel, 4-1 last night, 3-2 last week, 3-2 week before, 4-1 week before and 3-2 week before that. Looking at this the last time we had a pro-Brexit audience was March last year, about 35 episodes ago. (edit this actually 3-3! apologies) 27 March 2017[fn 98] Birmingham, England David Davis, Keir Starmer, Nick Clegg, Suzanne Evans, Melanie Phillips, Alex Salmond - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes 11 January 2018 Islington, England Dominic Raab, Dawn Butler, Gina Miller, Nish Kumar, Piers Morgan 18 January 2018 Hereford, England Margot James, Andy Burnham, Howard Davies, Munira Mirza, Dustin Lance Black 25 January 2018 Dumfries, Scotland Michael Forsyth, Chris Williamson, Fiona Hyslop, Maggie Chapman, Peter Oborne 1 February 2018 Grantham, England Justine Greening, John Mann, Jo Swinson, Miatta Fahnbulleh, Tim Stanley 8 February 2018 Darlington, England Claire Perry, Emily Thornberry, Richard Tice, Rachel Sylvester, Terry Christia I think Andrew Marr explained it best when he said the BBC has a "cultural left wing" bias rather than a political one, due to the fact it's based in big metropolitan cities, which means it will have more young people, LGTB people, left leaning etc than the national average. What sad git has tracked that? I can only assume that would be because it's harder to find leavers in political circles then - certainly I'd you aren't gong to keep having the same people on. Let's face it, the entire establishment sees brexit as a bad idea. I'm still not convinced that having 3/2 is a huge show of anti-neutrality. ESPECIALLY GIVEN QUESTION TIME ISN'T JUST ABOUT BREXIT.
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: What sad git has tracked that? I can only assume that would be because it's harder to find leavers in political circles then - certainly I'd you aren't gong to keep having the same people on. Let's face it, the entire establishment sees brexit as a bad idea. I'm still not convinced that having 3/2 is a huge show of anti-neutrality. ESPECIALLY GIVEN QUESTION TIME ISN'T JUST ABOUT BREXIT. I would be keen to see if you thought anti-neutrality wasn't a problem is we had 60 odd majority Brexit panels on the bounce. I do agree with you part of the reason is that the vast majority of the establishment is pro-remain though, if you want four representatives from all the parties it will be difficult to get that balance.
ealingfox Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 How many times have you made assumptions about people on the list? Has every single one of them publically declared their stance?
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 3 minutes ago, MattP said: I would be keen to see if you thought anti-neutrality wasn't a problem is we had 60 odd majority Brexit panels on the bounce. I do agree with you part of the reason is that the vast majority of the establishment is pro-remain though, if you want four representatives from all the parties it will be difficult to get that balance. I think it's more important to look at what the mix was in the run up to the referendum - do you know that? QT does have questions about Brexit, obvs, but isn't just about Brexit so they have to have a mixture of views across a range of topics. I'm not sure the idea of a bias particularly holds in those conditions, though granted a 50 week run is more than you'd expect.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, toddybad said: The evidence I have is the economic studies that confirm immigration is good for the economy and our wealth. Unfortunately you don't tend to believe economic studies. Forgive me. I have not seen one economic study that claims low wage immigration is good for the economy. I am not denying that skilled immigrants are a good thing, but I do not think that anyone has every questioned that here ever?! Perhaps you can point me in the direction of the evidence which says low paid immigration is good for the economy with your superior knowledge of all matters to which I bow. Edited 9 February 2018 by Foxin_mad
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, toddybad said: I think it's more important to look at what the mix was in the run up to the referendum - do you know that? QT does have questions about Brexit, obvs, but isn't just about Brexit so they have to have a mixture of views across a range of topics. I'm not sure the idea of a bias particularly holds in those conditions, though granted a 50 week run is more than you'd expect. The six in the run up to the referendum. (they had two specials after, one with Gove and one with Cameron) 3-2 Remain 3-2 Remain 4-1 Remain 3-2 Leave 3-2 Remain 3-2 Leave (19)-(11) Still tilted towards Remain, but certainly more balanced than now. 5 May 2016 Manchester, England Nigel Lawson, Lisa Nandy, Michael O'Leary, Isabel Oakeshott, Benjamin Zephaniah 12 May 2016 Aberdeen, Scotland David Mundell, Humza Yousaf, Kezia Dugdale, Jim Sillars, Merryn Somerset Webb 19 May 2016 Walsall, England Amber Rudd, Yvette Cooper, Tim Farron, Paul Nuttall, Paul Mason 26 May 2016 Ipswich, England Ed Miliband, David Davis, Caroline Lucas, Steve Hilton, Dreda Say Mitchell 2 June 2016 Cardiff, Wales Elizabeth Truss, Frank Field, Neil Hamilton, Liz Saville-Roberts, Owen Jones 9 June 2016 Folkestone, England Chris Grayling, Hilary Benn, Nigel Farage, Allison Pearson, Eddie Izzard Edited 9 February 2018 by MattP
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 The government is an absolute shambles. Rumour is they were discussing alternatives to the custom union yesterday and drew a blank. The EU position is entirely fair, and what we agreed two months ago, but TM and co are still battling it out trying to work out how it can meet any promises it's made. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-issues-brexit-ultimatum-on-ireland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: The six in the run up to the referendum. (they had two specials after, one with Gove and one with Cameron) 3-2 Remain 3-2 Remain 4-1 Remain 3-2 Leave 3-2 Remain 3-2 Leave Still tilted towards Remain, but certainly more balanced than now. 5 May 2016 Manchester, England Nigel Lawson, Lisa Nandy, Michael O'Leary, Isabel Oakeshott, Benjamin Zephaniah 12 May 2016 Aberdeen, Scotland David Mundell, Humza Yousaf, Kezia Dugdale, Jim Sillars, Merryn Somerset Webb 19 May 2016 Walsall, England Amber Rudd, Yvette Cooper, Tim Farron, Paul Nuttall, Paul Mason 26 May 2016 Ipswich, England Ed Miliband, David Davis, Caroline Lucas, Steve Hilton, Dreda Say Mitchell 2 June 2016 Cardiff, Wales Elizabeth Truss, Frank Field, Neil Hamilton, Liz Saville-Roberts, Owen Jones 9 June 2016 Folkestone, England Chris Grayling, Hilary Benn, Nigel Farage, Allison Pearson, Eddie Izzard Look at the state of the leaves you've placed your trust in. Farage, nuttall, Nigel 'climate change isn't real' Lawson. I realise izzard is on the remain team but he's not their equivalent of a political heavy hitter.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 19 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: There just aren't many respectable public people who actually believe in Brexit. There never has been. I voted remain but that is a horrific sweeping generalisation, typical of the views far left out of touch elite. There are many decent people who believe in Brexit, some have very valid reasons to I have heard them, I might not agree but I can understand the way they feel. Some are not thick, or racist or evil tory capitalist ***** like you would believe, they are decent hard working, law abiding citizens who would give you their life. This is why the far left are so utterly abhorrent and disgusting.
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