Webbo Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: Well that doesn't work because I want to vote the Tories out because they've been a disaster for the economy. So again that's an economic reason. righto mate.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: As you should, commend you for it. What do think about Jackie Walker being allowed back into the party? who the **** is jackie walker
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Why is it whenever the tory party is in crisis and are there for the taking does the Labour party still manage to not take advantage, Labour should be crucifying may and the Tories, wiping the floor with them, but they're doing F all. depressing. Grow some balls labour.
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 8 minutes ago, purpleronnie said: The response about photocopying articles was tongue in cheek surely you got that....if only I had known...c'mon matt. You mentioned 'articles' I didn't I said right wingers over here, just read the comments from the DM german immigration stories, the end of the world was nigh for Germany. Fair enough of that was tongue in cheek So where are these right wingers saying the German economy would suffer because of migration? The bizarre original claim.
Webbo Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, purpleronnie said: Why is it whenever the tory party is in crisis and are there for the taking does the Labour party still manage to not take advantage, Labour should be crucifying may and the Tories, wiping the floor with them, but they're doing F all. depressing. Grow some balls labour. Because they are rightly perceived as shit? Just a theory.
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: who the **** is jackie walker One of your anti-semites. Regular on the scene at any Momentum event.
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, MattP said: Fair enough of that was tongue in cheek So where are these right wingers saying the German economy would suffer because of migration? The bizarre original claim. Do you mean the comments that were made from the articles? Just read the comments from this one for instance. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691638/Germany-took-2million-people-year-equivalent-populations-Houston-Brisbane-Paris.html
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Because they are rightly perceived as shit? Just a theory. Nah they just need some Cojones. I expect a nut job as leader type joke....
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 3 minutes ago, purpleronnie said: Do you mean the comments that were made from the articles? Just read the comments from this one for instance. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691638/Germany-took-2million-people-year-equivalent-populations-Houston-Brisbane-Paris.html The Daily Mail comment section is now a reputable source want me to drag a few off the Guardian as sources for project feae? Do you live in 1987 still? Ignoring the fallacy this happened before Brexit, can you actually give a serious example of a right winger claiming mass migration would cause Germany economic harm?
Rogstanley Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 17 minutes ago, Webbo said: righto mate. None of you can name a single non-economic reason for voting brexit. Point well and truly proven.
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, MattP said: The Daily Mail comment section is now a reputable source want me to drag a few off the Guardian as sources for project feae? Do you live in 1987 still? Ignoring the fallacy this happened before Brexit, can you actually give a serious example of a right winger claiming mass migration would cause Germany economic harm? You keep replying to things I never even said., I simply said right wingers stated Germany would suffer economically due to the huge immigration...and I'm right.
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: None of you can name a single non-economic reason for voting brexit. Point well and truly proven. Independent trade.
leicsmac Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MattP said: @Buce as well as I forgot to quote him. "In bed" with might sound good as a criticism, but in reality it means little. Show me a country in the World that doesn't trade with Saudi Arabia. If Theresa May was holding rallies in Hyde Park celebrating the Saudi I'd understand your point. I find your opinion a bit strange on this given you want to talk to North Korea. Can you show me a government minister who has of his or her own accord spoke up in favour and celebrated a regime that does these things? Please don't forget Corbyn did this at his own accord, his own choice whilst on the backbenches. He didn't only condone them. He celebrated them. I think I had this discussion with Webbo before, but I see very little difference between overt verbal approval of a regime with terrible human rights records, and tacit approval through trading with a regime with equally if not more terrible human rights records - that the UK has approved of sanctions on Iran but not Saudi in the past shows they view practicality over morality in such matters. Of course, the UK can trade with whoever they like, just don't expect the folks involved to not be called hypocrites when they extend a hand to the Saudis and not to the Iranians. And yeah, for what it's worth, I'd talk to them all - Saudi, Iranian, North Korean, whoever, to trade with them, bring them into the 21st Century, and get them to finally abandon the ridiculous concept of a state run along the lines of a god or someone who thinks they are one. The more exposure, the less isolation, the more likely that is to happen. What I won't do, is play favourites with such regimes because, I don't know, reasons - either all of them get to come to the table or none. Edited 8 February 2018 by leicsmac
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, purpleronnie said: You keep replying to things I never even said., I simply said right wingers stated Germany would suffer economically due to the huge immigration...and I'm right. Again which right wingers said Germany would suffer due to high migration? Cheap migration does benefit economies, this is standard. Look at China, UAE etc. One of the reasons from some for Brexit was to raise the wage of the poorest.
Rogstanley Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Independent trade. I feel like I've said this at least three times already, but trade is an economic reason. Unless for some reason you want trade to be worsened, which I assume you don't, then the reason for wanting to open up new trade avenues is to benefit economically. It's an economic reason.
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Again which right wingers said Germany would suffer due to high migration? Cheap migration does benefit economies, this is standard. Look at China, UAE etc. One of the reasons from some for Brexit was to raise the wage of the poorest. I've already shown you one article and the comments by right wingers keep asking for the same thing, you want me to google a load more comments? You're right people believe that immigration reduces wages but from all I have read....some reputable articles matt...have always stated its very small. Considering the benefits of immigration here it seems a poor reason to vote brexit.
Strokes Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 11 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: None of you can name a single non-economic reason for voting brexit. Point well and truly proven. The first reply was passports, point unproven.
RumbleFox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 4 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: None of you can name a single non-economic reason for voting brexit. Point well and truly proven. I think just off the top of my head I could come up with a few......... I would say just because you do not think it is a good reason to vote Brexit some people definitely did vote for it because they strongly believe we should "make our own laws". Immigration is also a big factor which, although has an economic angle in some ways is also an ideology based on identity more than economics. A sense of "Britishness" also swung some people. That is at least three non-economic reasons a person may have for voting Brexit. Moreover, please do not argue that these are either not valid arguments or they are actually economic but people don;t know it as all it does is undermine your own point of view as people may think you are refusing to listen. You may think they are all bad reasons but you would be incorrect to say they are not valid reasons to some people. Anyway, I voted to remain and I think all of the above are poor reasons but it seems churlish to deny they are not reasons at all just because I disagree with them. I think you and I probably agree on more than we disagree with but we have to at least listen to other viewpoints else we ruin our own arguments. X 3
Strokes Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 4 minutes ago, purpleronnie said: I've already shown you one article and the comments by right wingers keep asking for the same thing, you want me to google a load more comments? You're right people believe that immigration reduces wages but from all I have read....some reputable articles matt...have always stated its very small. Considering the benefits of immigration here it seems a poor reason to vote brexit. Can you quote the specific comments that say the economy will tank?
purpleronnie Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 7 minutes ago, MattP said: Independent trade. Liam fox is that you?
Buce Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 50 minutes ago, MattP said: Yes I did. Went there in 2013. I'm happy to trade with any country. Then you have no integrity or any discernable moral compass. Your alleged gay friends must be proud. 50 minutes ago, MattP said: Again though, what do you think of the Labour leader speaking up voluntarily on behalf of a government that hangs gay people and celebrating them taking power? That it is several degrees of immorality less than trading weapons to them.
Webbo Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 8 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I feel like I've said this at least three times already, but trade is an economic reason. Unless for some reason you want trade to be worsened, which I assume you don't, then the reason for wanting to open up new trade avenues is to benefit economically. It's an economic reason. Well we plan to ban exports of live animals after Brexit, which we're not allowed to do now, on animal welfare grounds. Is that good enough.
Buce Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 50 minutes ago, MattP said: Some of my best friends are Jews Gays. Honest.
Rogstanley Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: I think just off the top of my head I could come up with a few......... I would say just because you do not think it is a good reason to vote Brexit some people definitely did vote for it because they strongly believe we should "make our own laws". Immigration is also a big factor which, although has an economic angle in some ways is also an ideology based on identity more than economics. A sense of "Britishness" also swung some people. That is at least three non-economic reasons a person may have for voting Brexit. Moreover, please do not argue that these are either not valid arguments or they are actually economic but people don;t know it as all it does is undermine your own point of view as people may think you are refusing to listen. You may think they are all bad reasons but you would be incorrect to say they are not valid reasons to some people. Anyway, I voted to remain and I think all of the above are poor reasons but it seems churlish to deny they are not reasons at all just because I disagree with them. I think you and I probably agree on more than we disagree with but we have to at least listen to other viewpoints else we ruin our own arguments. X What did they think the benefits of making our own laws and reducing immigration would be? It's no good just to say they wanted people who live in Britain to make the laws instead of people in another country making the laws. Why[/i] did they want that? You've asked me not to argue that these reasons don't boil down to the economy, but that's hard because I think in reality they do. "I voted brexit because a sense of britishness" is probably about right in terms of non-economic reasons. Nonsensical, meaningless, nationalist drivel. *Italics were only meant to be on the "Why" Edited 8 February 2018 by Rogstanley
RumbleFox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: What did they think the benefits of making our own laws and reducing immigration would be? It's no good just to say they wanted people who live in Britain to make the laws instead of people in another country making the laws. Why[/i] did thry want that? You've asked me not to argue that these reasons don't boil down to the economy, but that's hard because I think in reality they do. "I voted brexit because a sense of britishness" is probably about right in terms of non-economic reasons. Nonsensical, meaningless, nationalist drivel. Again, if you are asking for GOOD reasons you can argue but it does not stop them being REASONS. You cannot ask someone why they voted then when they tell you either not believe it or not listen. Some people think that "British values" are being eroded and it has nothing to do with economics. I strongly disagree with people who think that but it would be mental of me to tell them that they didn't mean it or that "you might SAY that but really it's economic". Even if we assume for one second that you are right and that there is not one single non-economic reason for voting Brexit, what is your point? I am genuinely intrigued?
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