Guest Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 12 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: I disagree. I cannot give you them because I don;t feel strongly about national identity but I bet there are people that could. Some people feel very strongly about it. I am not talking about the rights and wrongs of their argument but merely suggesting that some people hold that there are certain values that are "British" and they feel scared that we are losing them. I think to deny them of that is a part of the problem with the left (and I include myself in "the left"). If we ignore and belittle their arguments we create further an environment where people feel attacked and eroded and then people like Farage and Trump step in. This is true. We need to be taking on their concerns, not dismissing them.
RumbleFox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, toddybad said: I think you're being very fair and reasonable but you are missing out the concept of challenge. It's fine for people to have whatever opinion they want but equally opinions are there to be challenged. Oh I agree. But I am saying to deny that they even have that opinion is what is wrong. I agree with debate and I challenge things every day out in the real world that I disagree with but I find it frustrating when people tell people that they don;t really mean what they say they mean that;s all? Unless I am just making no sense in which case sorry everyone. Sorry Mum. Sorry Jesus. X
RumbleFox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: This is true. We need to be taking on their concerns, not dismissing them. Yes, I think that is what I was trying to say. Sometimes I do ramble on I bore even myself. X
Guest Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Just now, RumbleFox said: Oh I agree. But I am saying to deny that they even have that opinion is what is wrong. I agree with debate and I challenge things every day out in the real world that I disagree with but I find it frustrating when people tell people that they don;t really mean what they say they mean that;s all? Unless I am just making no sense in which case sorry everyone. Sorry Mum. Sorry Jesus. X You're right. I have no doubt that certain people have the views they do. It would be a bit boring if they didn't as I quite like the challenge part, which you can't really do without believing them.
RumbleFox Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: You're right. I have no doubt that certain people have the views they do. It would be a bit boring if they didn't as I quite like the challenge part, which you can't really do without believing them. It just comes across as patronising when I hear it I think. I know I try too hard to be reasonable all the time but I do like to try and see things from other's point of view and sometimes having your mind changed is the best feeling.
Guest Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 3 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: It just comes across as patronising when I hear it I think. I know I try too hard to be reasonable all the time but I do like to try and see things from other's point of view and sometimes having your mind changed is the best feeling. I find it depends who it is. Plus, if you'd been here longer you'd realise it's all a pointless charade. Me and buce are on the same side of the argument most of the time. But there are still things we have vehemently disagree on (free speech, notably). Me and Rog are pretty much brothers by another mother politics wise yet sometimes I think he makes himself look an arse over silly things.....as do i. Webbo. I try to have reasonable discussions with webbo. I'm cut a long story short and just say it's impossible. MattP. A few months ago it seemed like it was me vs him. We disagree on 90% of things (funnily though we agree on the free speech that I disagree with buce about). Sometimes we have reasonable discussions but I always feel like he's searching for a minor 'win' to claim it as a major 'win'. I think my discussions with Matt probably fail your test. Strokes. WUM. He claims to be closer to labour yet argues like webbo. We did have moments of clarity where we can actually have some decent discussions. But he gets bored and doesn't want to let me think I've made a good point (though all my points are, obvs). Tbh the fact I can write this shows how predictable this thread has become. I enjoy politics but I'm already itching for something like an election as it's all a bit boring without. Like Leicester playing Stoke once we know we can't make europe. Though presumably Matt, webbo and strokes would prefer it if we didn't.
Strokes Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: I find it depends who it is. Plus, if you'd been here longer you'd realise it's all a pointless charade. Me and buce are on the same side of the argument most of the time. But there are still things we have vehemently disagree on (free speech, notably). Me and Rog are pretty much brothers by another mother politics wise yet sometimes I think he makes himself look an arse over silly things.....as do i. Webbo. I try to have reasonable discussions with webbo. I'm cut a long story short and just say it's impossible. MattP. A few months ago it seemed like it was me vs him. We disagree on 90% of things (funnily though we agree on the free speech that I disagree with buce about). Sometimes we have reasonable discussions but I always feel like he's searching for a minor 'win' to claim it as a major 'win'. I think my discussions with Matt probably fail your test. Strokes. WUM. He claims to be closer to labour yet argues like webbo. We did have moments of clarity where we can actually have some decent discussions. But he gets bored and doesn't want to let me think I've made a good point (though all my points are, obvs). Tbh the fact I can write this shows how predictable this thread has become. I enjoy politics but I'm already itching for something like an election as it's all a bit boring without. Like Leicester playing Stoke once we know we can't make europe. Though presumably Matt, webbo and strokes would prefer it if we didn't. I haven’t said I’m closer to labour, I said I was closer to voting for labour at the last election than I was conservatives. I chose to spoil my ballot. I didn’t claim anything, it’s what happened and I said it during the build up to the election what my intentions were. You make out like I suddenly revealed it quite a bit after. I’m still open to the idea of voting Labour, I certainly don’t agree with them on many points but then I’m a not exactly seeing much from the tories I agree with since the old witch got the top job. I argue with you over whether austerity was benificial to us because I believe it was. Personally I do think we need to invest now because withdrawing investment whilst leaving the EU is very dangerous. Maybe I don’t say you make good points often enough but usually it’s because I’m defending myself from the Rottweiler you keep as company and the moment passes. I think you’ve become a lot less antagonistic recently and I’ve engaged more reasonably as a result.
Buce Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 58 minutes ago, Strokes said: I haven’t said I’m closer to labour, I said I was closer to voting for labour at the last election than I was conservatives. I chose to spoil my ballot. I didn’t claim anything, it’s what happened and I said it during the build up to the election what my intentions were. You make out like I suddenly revealed it quite a bit after. I’m still open to the idea of voting Labour, I certainly don’t agree with them on many points but then I’m a not exactly seeing much from the tories I agree with since the old witch got the top job. I argue with you over whether austerity was benificial to us because I believe it was. Personally I do think we need to invest now because withdrawing investment whilst leaving the EU is very dangerous. Maybe I don’t say you make good points often enough but usually it’s because I’m defending myself from the Rottweiler you keep as company and the moment passes. I think you’ve become a lot less antagonistic recently and I’ve engaged more reasonably as a result. To be fair, Strokes, you keep a couple of yapping mongrels of your own. 1
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 8 February 2018 Author Posted 8 February 2018 2 hours ago, Webbo said: Well how would you cure the clean air thing? We can't just ban cars from London. What's the alternative? Well they have begun doing just that haven’t they? 2 hours ago, Webbo said: What would you do then, ban cars? London is one of the most over crowded cities in the world. This is why decisions should be made in this country by people who understand the situation, not someone from a rural part of Romania. I find the most important thing is the correct decision being made, not the nationality of the person who made it. And sometimes it’s useful to have someone from outside look at a position - they may look at the position more objectively. 1
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 8 February 2018 Author Posted 8 February 2018 2 hours ago, Buce said: What I'm seeking is a definition of 'British values'. Without one, how can we have an opinion on whether it is a valid belief that they are being eroded? If there’s no definition, perhaps that’s a sign of how eroded they are? There was certainly a sense of British values and pride in earlier history - notions of the Queen, a cup of tea, stiff upper lip, the commonwealth, British beef, the green and pleasant land etc, etc, etc.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 8 February 2018 Author Posted 8 February 2018 3 hours ago, RumbleFox said: The Brexiteers are just as guilty though. Both sides, of any argument just don;t listen. I really wish we lived in a world where people in general, and politicians specifically, could say "I agree with on that bit and actually you were right and I was wrong about that other thing but on this other thing I disagree with you because of these facts.....". But no, it's all just a load of children masturbating and throwing shit at each other. X Ironically, I think this issue has come about as politics has been re-positioned to be entertainment as well as news. Somewhat understandably, this has probably been done to draw a bigger audience and thus engagement; the rise in phone in’s, political chat shows, comedy shows parodying news, politicians appearing on early morning telly more often - plus the increasing use of ‘ordinary people’ in putting questions to people - heightens the notion that everyone can have a say. Another factor could also be the change in interpretation of privacy laws (courtesy of ECHR) meaning the kiss and tell and long lens stories tabloids use to revel in are no longer prevelant - meaning politics hits the front page with more regularity. Now, one may say all these things are positive for a democracy, BUT there is one small counterbalance that is probably causing a problem; In order to have a say and debate an issue; it is important to have both a good understanding of the subject AND to be able to listen. These skills are not obvious in everyone - It is evident, even in this thread, there’s are many who lack these two factors - and so what you end up with is shouty ranting statements of opinion, that may be loosely based on fact. The idea of “everyone having a say” silently through voting - fine, not a problem - but everyone vocally having a say = lots of noise. Can I also mention, I am aware how awful this sounds - i can comment because i’m an intellectual, ooh la de da, but you thicko’s, **** off back to the Tinder thread and make your noise in there please - but I decided those being discussed are probably to thick to understand this is about them anyway and i really don’t care what they think! ? 1
Jimothy Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 Wow Claire Perry mat be the worst politician I've ever seen on Question Time, and I've watched episodes with appearances from Liz Truss and Diane Abbott.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 8 February 2018 Author Posted 8 February 2018 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: Wow Claire Perry mat be the worst politician I've ever seen on Question Time, and I've watched episodes with appearances from Liz Truss and Diane Abbott. I was going to say I don’t know who she is... but looked her up and realised I do, she’s been on QT before and been crap. I’m not watching at the moment - what’s she done?
Jimothy Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: I was going to say I don’t know who she is... but looked her up and realised I do, she’s been on QT before and been crap. I’m not watching at the moment - what’s she done? Just been generally terrible. Patronising, not answering questions. Telling people they're wrong and then not proving them wrong. Edited 8 February 2018 by Facecloth 1
Jimothy Posted 8 February 2018 Posted 8 February 2018 20 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: I was going to say I don’t know who she is... but looked her up and realised I do, she’s been on QT before and been crap. I’m not watching at the moment - what’s she done? Oh and telling people to shut up and not shutting up herself. Think she thinks she' running the show herself. 1
leicsmac Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Well they have begun doing just that haven’t they? I find the most important thing is the correct decision being made, not the nationality of the person who made it. And sometimes it’s useful to have someone from outside look at a position - they may look at the position more objectively. 1 When it comes to environmental stuff, absolutely this. It's not like the effects of such things obey borders, is it? Edited 9 February 2018 by leicsmac 1
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 6 hours ago, Strokes said: I haven’t said I’m closer to labour, I said I was closer to voting for labour at the last election than I was conservatives. I chose to spoil my ballot. I didn’t claim anything, it’s what happened and I said it during the build up to the election what my intentions were. You make out like I suddenly revealed it quite a bit after. I’m still open to the idea of voting Labour, I certainly don’t agree with them on many points but then I’m a not exactly seeing much from the tories I agree with since the old witch got the top job. I argue with you over whether austerity was benificial to us because I believe it was. Personally I do think we need to invest now because withdrawing investment whilst leaving the EU is very dangerous. Maybe I don’t say you make good points often enough but usually it’s because I’m defending myself from the Rottweiler you keep as company and the moment passes. I think you’ve become a lot less antagonistic recently and I’ve engaged more reasonably as a result. I prefer the reasonable discussions but get lost down the rabbit hole with Matt, webbo and fox. We really do need more posters on here to produce more moderate conversations but I suppose we scare them away with the vehement disagreements. Catch 22.
Rogstanley Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: If there’s no definition, perhaps that’s a sign of how eroded they are? There was certainly a sense of British values and pride in earlier history - notions of the Queen, a cup of tea, stiff upper lip, the commonwealth, British beef, the green and pleasant land etc, etc, etc. Is this post a joke? Honestly I can’t tell. If not then can you tell me how the British beef value operates?
RumbleFox Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 9 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Ironically, I think this issue has come about as politics has been re-positioned to be entertainment as well as news. Somewhat understandably, this has probably been done to draw a bigger audience and thus engagement; the rise in phone in’s, political chat shows, comedy shows parodying news, politicians appearing on early morning telly more often - plus the increasing use of ‘ordinary people’ in putting questions to people - heightens the notion that everyone can have a say. Another factor could also be the change in interpretation of privacy laws (courtesy of ECHR) meaning the kiss and tell and long lens stories tabloids use to revel in are no longer prevelant - meaning politics hits the front page with more regularity. Now, one may say all these things are positive for a democracy, BUT there is one small counterbalance that is probably causing a problem; In order to have a say and debate an issue; it is important to have both a good understanding of the subject AND to be able to listen. These skills are not obvious in everyone - It is evident, even in this thread, there’s are many who lack these two factors - and so what you end up with is shouty ranting statements of opinion, that may be loosely based on fact. The idea of “everyone having a say” silently through voting - fine, not a problem - but everyone vocally having a say = lots of noise. Can I also mention, I am aware how awful this sounds - i can comment because i’m an intellectual, ooh la de da, but you thicko’s, **** off back to the Tinder thread and make your noise in there please - but I decided those being discussed are probably to thick to understand this is about them anyway and i really don’t care what they think! ? Ha, I was agreeing entirely until this last bit but will let you off as you seem a good egg.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 February 2018 Author Posted 9 February 2018 1 hour ago, Rogstanley said: Is this post a joke? Honestly I can’t tell. If not then can you tell me how the British beef value operates? https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/05/english-beef-a-proud-tradition
Guest Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 (edited) Northern Ireland will stay in single market after Brexit, EU says https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/09/northern-ireland-will-stay-in-single-market-after-brexit-eu-says?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Here's my morning briefing from the Guardian.... This is essentially what TM agreed not so long ago. We're obviously getting closer and closer to the point that the government will have to decide and state what it actually wants. I'm not sure how long it can maintain it's current position of not stating a position. It would be interesting to know how the 'war cabinet' (surely warring would be more accurate?) are getting on trying to reach agreement. There's a real prospect of a tory split over Brexit. It's been coming for about 35 years but I'm not sure there's any way of avoiding it. It's hard to imagine the WRM brigade accepting anything short of jumping off a cliff or the Soubry brigade joining them if they did. It'll leave the rump of MPs in the middle. I guess history would suggest they'll side with whoever they think has the best chance of winning. Edited 9 February 2018 by Guest
David Guiza Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 10 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: If there’s no definition, perhaps that’s a sign of how eroded they are? There was certainly a sense of British values and pride in earlier history - notions of the Queen, a cup of tea, stiff upper lip, the commonwealth, British beef, the green and pleasant land etc, etc, etc. I think the last time there was any sort of national pride, particularly in a media context, was the 90s and it has been downhill ever since. Brit Pop, early Blair years and the hysteria around that, (relatively) successful national football side, the fact that Thatcher had gone, Dianna (both her life and death) were all big contributing factors to a sense of national pride. The sovereignty argument doesn't always wash with me because the vast majority whom bemoan the 'shackles' of the EU over our law making powers seemingly have no interest or knowledge of the influence the EU has had over the same. The influence undoubtedly lead to some unconstitutional and questionable decisions, but a lot the contribution has been beneficial, plus a post Brexit world isn't necessarily a constitutional nirvana either In my eyes, whilst I would never have voted for it, Brexit is neither the end of the world nor a shining beacon of hope, but in terms of the sovereignty and national pride argument - we should always be seeking to break down borders wherever possible, people seem to forget at times that they are just imaginary lines constructed by man for the benefit (or hindrance) of man. I am aware that in many cases it isn't practical, safe or possible to break down certain borders, but the relationship we shared and continue to share with Europe post War was stronger than ever before and, without meaning to sound like John and Yoko, the desperation some people have for it to be us v the world will always baffle me. 1
Rogstanley Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 46 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/05/english-beef-a-proud-tradition Bloody hell. Well at least now I know. People voted brexit because beef. They're coming for our beef.
Buce Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/05/english-beef-a-proud-tradition And how is being a member of the EU eroding this proud tradition exactly?
Bellend Sebastian Posted 9 February 2018 Posted 9 February 2018 14 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Bloody hell. Well at least now I know. People voted brexit because beef. They're coming for our beef. The irony of this of course, at least as far as my aging, Brexit embracing family is concerned, they cannot cook beef to save their lives. Why they would be so precious about the grey, solid tasteless mass I get served of a Sunday I haven't got a clue. They've all forgotten that the main reason they cook it like that (beyond an old person's tendency to over-cook stuff anyway) is because of their ingrained terror of getting CJD, which was the result of piss poor UK agricultural practice anyway if memory serves me right 2
Recommended Posts